Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?
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    Attack on Vampires Kyriaki's Avatar
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    Default Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    Every pokemon series had a regional villain plot within. The seasons were well over a hundred episodes, and they seemed to try balancing the plot over the seasons.

    (Excluding Team Rocket since they were in nearly every episode and is therefore...pointless to talk about)




    Team Aqua and Magma
    AG: 002, 017, 018, 027, 036, 054, 083, 097, 098

    A total of 9 episodes. There was one Aqua/Magma story every 12 episodes approximately.




    Team Galactic
    DP: 036, 060, 069, 096, 097, 110, 111, 136, 150, 151, 152

    A total of 11 episodes, and they were also spread out so there's an approximate 12 episode gap between stories. However, they have more two-parters and a three-parter dedicated to them. Thus, there's around 20 episodes of non-Galactic stories between each Galactic plots.




    Team Plasma, however, has the entire Episode N arc for them. Excluding the Juniper lab filler, Mareep farm filler, and Cheren's episode, they will be appearing in a total of 11 episodes out of this 14-episode arc. I know some episodes don't actually have the bad guys, but N was a previous Team Plasma member in the anime anyways,so his appearance alone might as well count as a Plasma episode.

    In short, the episodes were packed together.



    So which do you like? Villain plots spread out over the season? Or a separate arc with their episodes packed together?


    Personally, I prefer a separate packed arc. There's less waiting between episodes, and they seem more intense and focused on the plot.
    Last edited by Kyriaki; 9th April 2013 at 01:25 AM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    Ya know...that's a good question. I guess it depends on how they're handled really

    (will discuss more in detail later)

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    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    I can see the advantages of a separate packed arc with fewer breaks in between their appearances and not waiting so long for payoff, but I think I prefer spreading the villains' plot throughout the series. It would probably take a long time to have a separate arc for the villains since they'd probably wait until the next set of games come out in order to feature any of the new characters introduced there like they did with Episode N. Plus, I'd like them to cover as much of the villains' plot from the games as possible and they probably wouldn't be able to do that with a separate arc, especially if Episode N is any indication of that. A separate packed arc can work, but I still prefer the buildup Team Galactic had through DP. Most of their appearances were handled well and were building up to a good conclusion. Plus, we got to see some of the characters a lot sooner than we would have had they went for a separate packed arc.

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    heropon very cool! Winterdaze's Avatar Forum HeadAdministrator
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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    Given what I've seen of episode N so far compared to previous villain plots, I vastly prefer them packed together. Spreading them out sounds good in theory, since it lets you run a villain plot alongside the main character's progression, but in practice it just turns into a lot of forgettable build-up that ends up relegated to B-plot among the sea of episodes that have nothing to do with the team. It's kind of jarring to watch a serious action-packed episode involving the evil team, only to see the characters go back to the same old training and less serious adventures for the next 30 episodes, with not so much as a mention of the villains.

    In the long run, it makes no difference in terms of series composition, you're going to get the same number of filler eps and non-villain teams eps no matter which way you do it.
    But having a more concentrated plot works better in my opinion, there's less distractions, it's much easier to stay interested so the payoff is more satisfying and the continual focus makes it seem like everybody in-verse is taking the team more seriously.

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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    It should start spread out and get more densely packed as the crisis approaches. That way the villains have time to get things set up, plus it helps Ash & co. to get stronger from their encounters with the bad guys. Also, the villains can get more screen time for their own development.
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    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    If Team Rocket were competent and had a well written goal and plot, then the way they were handled in BW (the pre-Subway and pre-Meloetta plots) in terms of developing their plot as a side part of the episodes could have worked very well.

    The problem I think all the regional villians have had is that their appearances have been detatched from the overall plotlines and made too self contained - it's hard to show the impending demise of the region because of a massive battle if people are going on with their normal selves directly before and after.

    Done well, build up and backstory done in segments or even missable background scenes within episodes as the plot gets closer, with occasional episodes where they cross paths would be great imo. Let the storyline really evolve from when Ash first hears the name of the evil team, to him finding out about their plot and then have him proactively take them on, not just run into them mid way through by co-incidence.

    At the moment I don't like the packed together nature of the N episodes - it works okay because they are getting to a quick climax, but the storyline with Ash doesn't have as much meaning to it as it should because N's views haven't shaped him over time - no effort was made with his BW Pokemon to be a good example of him running counter to the norm for trainers. Because the plot didn't impact the overall series it doesn't have as much impact as it could have.

    They missed so many chances to adapt the game storylines by taking the approach they did.

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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    This was an interesting compression of the villain plot, and it has been decent, at least when they aren't mucking something up. I might even say it's a nice reflection of how the villains were a more important aspect of the game as well. I will still say they did this because for whatever reason, they were unable to put TP in the main Unova arc. To some degree, I oddly favor this approach because it allows the narrative to be more cohesive. Nothing else to slow it down, and the villains can look more menacing because of it. Not to mention it cuts down on filler. One of my problems with the villains in both the games and the anime is that dealing with them seems unrelated to the actual goal you're going for. It could be removed and nothing would be sacrificed except for the matter of having nothing to fill time with, and in the case of the game, having little dungeons where you fight a gauntlet of baddies leading up to a mini-boss. (or actual boss, depending on how you look at it or the situation provided) BW intertwined the villain plot with the badge quest, so now it made more sense. (BW2, not so much) They avoided that matter entirely in the anime and instead made it a proper separate plot. I like this mentality, but the execution is lacking. Of course it makes little difference if they do space out a villain plot in the main arc again. The one flaw I guess this possesses is that it drags out the region more than it needed to, or at least it did in this case. At least it's interesting, so it doesn't matter.
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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    Honestly, I like what they did with TR in BW best- a handful of smaller arcs spread out over the series. The problem is that most game villains aren't suited for that sort of pacing, since they generally have one specific goal to fufill.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    I prefer it over the course of a region since you see how the villain team is building and it builds suspense waiting for the next arc. Galactic could have used a few more episodes, but they were handled quite well along with Hunter J.

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    Mutha'uckas CrackFox's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    If I had it my way, TR would be the only threat in each saga. I always hate the extra villains. They just bored me.

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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    I honestly can't choose, especially with such good points made for either side. Episode N is better than what we had with Magma/Aqua/Galactic, but I don't want the villains to be pushed aside until they have their time to shine. I'd like to see a middle ground, where we do see them and some of their schemes in random eps in order to establish them and their actions; after we get to know and fear them, then we get their arc.
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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrary View Post
    I'd like to see a middle ground, where we do see them and some of their schemes in random eps in order to establish them and their actions; after we get to know and fear them, then we get their arc.
    That's a great idea. That's kinda what they did for TG and that worked well, IMHO.

    Me, I'm thinking that when they show up, it should be in mult-part episodes. Have Ash & Co. deal with the usual precocious bullshit for a while, then have the Villains show up to kick ass and make thing a whole lot more interesting, then show up again later 2 or 3 eps at a time until the end of their arc.

    Not happening (the producers care FAR more pimping trading cards & toys than telling a story, let alone a good one), but that sounds best to me.

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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    The only reason the Plasma scenario is packed together in a single arc is because of the complication that the Seismic Disaster brought up along with Game Freak's decision to create an in gen sequel as opposed to a third version. I imagine that they originally have it spread out, but due to scenes in the TR vs. TP two parter, they have to give that up in respect to their audiences (after all, Japan's a small nation on the Pacific Ring of Fire).

    If I were to choose, I go like this.

    Gym leader arc with mention of Villain team here or there.
    Then Villain Arc.
    Then League Arc.
    Then Tourney/Filler Arc.

    However, the problem with this format is the prediction of what Game Freak going to do next. Even if they have a year notice and kept in touch with the developers on the Plot so that they know what to adapt it into, they have to deal with stretching the entire series to when next generations of game to be released; which is something that they have no control over.
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    Default Re: Regional Villain Plots: Spread out over the series or packed together?

    Something else I just thought of: if the villain arc gets stretched out alongside the gym circuit arc, it can help provide Ash with additional incentive to train harder. For him, it won't just be about making it to the [insert region] League; it'll also be about prepping himself for his next encounter with the bad guys.
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