Thread: The Pros and Cons of TPCi & Duart

Now that we covered 4kids, let's talk about the good and bad of TPCi and Duart's dub of the Pokemon Anime. I'll go first:

Pros:
1. Voices have gradually improved since the Battle Frontier dub
2. More faithful to the JPN scripts
3. Little to no errors in their dub (they delete shots of Saturn's Bronzong using Teleport since it can't in the games. Impressive.)
4. So far, the BW dub is better than their previous seasons.
5. Some dub music was pretty good like The Ultimate Challenge.
6. Little to no censorship

Cons:
1. Bad BF dub
2. Unbearable dub music and inconsistencies of its usage (at least 4kids had pretty good music.)
3. More to come.

Your turn now.

Cons: shitty openings

4kids was so much better at doing them. There hasn't been a single TPCI opening that has resulted in me going ^_^, instead it has been more like -_-

The two dubs aren't much different, in my opinion. TPCI is good at the same things 4Kids was good at, and bad at the things 4Kids was bad at. There are differences, of course - music, paint edits, the fact that the movies are being shown in their proper aspect ratio now - but for the most part, we're getting a "same shit, different company" thing going on.

I actually wish Sarah could redub her Ash from BF as to what she sounds like now. The biggest problem of the BF dub was how Ash sounded, (everyone else was at least bearable), and her Ash voice now is fine.

Granted Max's PUSA voice was awful. I think the reason I didn't mind Max in Hoenn is because 4kids made him sound like a cute kid, but then PUSA really made him sound like a nerd and killed him. Not that it matters anymore.

Originally Posted by Dogasu

the fact that the movies are being shown in their proper aspect ratio now

It's unlikely that's the dubbers' doing. The Australian DVDs of 4Ever and LATMOM are in widescreen, and the Blu-Ray doubly with Heroes and Destiny Deoxys has the movies in widescreen too - so it seems like it's the people putting the content on the discs or on TV making the decisions in that regard. All 8 4Kids movies have 16:9 screenshots on Pokemon.com's movie guide, too.

Onto the pros and cons! The PUSA/TAJ dub was pretty much the same as the late-4Kids/TAJ dub (season 4-5) with different voice actors. Watch the credits of a Master Quest episode and then watch the credits of a Battle Frontier episode and you can see that most of the staff that weren't tied to 4Kids were in both of those dubs - and aside from the voice acting, the only real difference was the lack of time cuts and paint edits. The background music in season 9-10 was still non-stop and jumped annoyingly back-and-forth between tracks - still the same composers, though... so the different sound must have been more to do with the music-making equipment rather than the people making said music.

Then you have the TPCi/DuArt dub. At face value - it's got the same pros as the 9-10 dub, what with the lack of cuts and edits... but there are more subtle pros and cons in this dub too. Despite maintaing the process of including dub music, the switch to DuArt meant they no longer had access to TAJ's back catalogue of 4Kids' short sound cues (thank GOD!) and they also seemed to have gained a competent sound mixer who doesn't insist on having music blaring the entire episode. While I think Darren Dunstan (season 6-8) was the best voice director the dub's had, Tom Wayland has been an okay voice director, too. He's dragged a much more dynamic performance out of Sarah Natochenny, and Ash has sounded much better from season 11 onwards. At the same time though, somewhere along the production line - whether it's Zoppi's scripts (unlikely as he's been writing them since season 5), Bill Rogers's script timing, or Tom Wayland's voice direction - the characters tend to sound a little bit un-human at times. Perhaps due to the over-reliance on the same lip-flap-matching words like "K?", "Y'know?" and "<move> Let's go!" all the time.

Regarding the current dub and BGM, "we add our own music to save money" hardly seems to be a reasonable explanation anymore, as they maintain 90-95% of the Japanese soundtrack in the BW dub. The only logical conclusion that I could draw as to why they bother replacing 1-2 pieces of music per episode is that there's some sort of long-term contract with John Loeffler that hasn't expired yet, and hopefully will soon.

Originally Posted by Thingamajig

Regarding the current dub and BGM, "we add our own music to save money" hardly seems to be a reasonable explanation anymore, as they maintain 90-95% of the Japanese soundtrack in the BW dub. The only logical conclusion that I could draw as to why they bother replacing 1-2 pieces of music per episode is that there's some sort of long-term contract with John Loeffler that hasn't expired yet, and hopefully will soon.

I don't get it either but I will admit that a select few BW dub music appeals to me. "Few" being the key word.

Pros: The voice acting has gotten tremendously better over the years they've been dubbing the show.

Cons: The voice acting started off horribly. And their dub music is shit. And their dialogue can be really bad (ESPECIALLY with Team Rocket).

Pros: Less edits.

Cons: Their version of Team Rocket.

Originally Posted by martianmister

Cons: Their version of Team Rocket.

They got better though.

Originally Posted by matt0044

They got better though.

We hardly seen dub TR at this point, they can back to their Seuss mode in post-BW25 episodes.

Originally Posted by martianmister

We hardly seen dub TR at this point, they can back to their Seuss mode in post-BW25 episodes.

I'm not sure. TR after BW025 are serious and competent but funny at times. Plus, they rhymed in DP because they were suppose to be funny (but failed) and because Zoppi developed a fetish for alliterations that he seems to have gotten over (for the moment).

Originally Posted by Dogasu

The two dubs aren't much different, in my opinion. TPCI is good at the same things 4Kids was good at, and bad at the things 4Kids was bad at. There are differences, of course - music, paint edits, the fact that the movies are being shown in their proper aspect ratio now - but for the most part, we're getting a "same shit, different company" thing going on.

wait, they're just as Bad as 4kids. I know that Localization have to take effect in order for the anime to appeal to western audience, but at least PUSA did some of it better than that failure of a localization company.

I like the fact that TPCi is closer to the original anime and has less censorship, but I'm not a huge fan of the current voice actors of the old characters (Ash, the TRio, Professor Oak, etc). If they had kept them, I'd set my alarm clock on Saturday mornings to watch Pokémon. I LOVE Veronica Taylor's portrayal of Ash, especially.

Pros:
- Less unnecessary dialogue edits and deleted scenes.
- Little to no errors, ala "Arbok evolves into Seviper".
- Stays largely more faithful to the Japanese version.

Cons:
- I lost the urge to wake up early on weekends to catch new episodes (which I had been doing until I was about 15) once they took over. Nor have I ever seen fit to return to that routine.
- The new voice actors have never grown on me. I gave them time to do so, but I was hugely opposed to the switch in the first place and as a result I have longed for the familiar and (in my opinion) more natural 4Kids VA's to return. I will forever remember the voices of Veronica Taylor, Eric Stuart, Ted Lewis, Rachael Lillis etc. with fondness. I'll admit that i've noted an improvement in Sarah Natochenny's portrayal of Ash since the BF saga, but her version just feels so cold and unfitting to me.
- Unnatural dialogue. Not saying that 4Kids weren't guilty of this, but I believe that the newer companies are just as bad, if not worse for it. Every episode that I have caught since Battle Frontier - D/P has had characters commanding their Pokemon by saying "*attack*, LET'S GO!", for example. I don't think I even need to start on Team Rocket's lame alliteration, pre-BW at least.
- AWFUL intros. Battle Frontier is the only one that has kept with the spirit of its predecessors since the dubbing switch, but that and Battle Dimension aside I can't recall a single opening that has got my adrenaline racing like those that 4Kids oversaw.

Honestly, I had the most problems with TPCI during Diamond and Pearl. Their music was awfully lackluster and boring, and Team Rocket's dialogue really made me want to kill myself sometimes. Other than that, I really have no problem with them as a whole.

As for BW, I honestly cannot tell which piece is original and which isn't. That may be due to the fact that I don't watch the original version as much, but the dub music at least doesn't make me want to hurt myself.