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  1. #91
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    4kids also had the same problem with the repeitition of filler girl voices.
    Well, they were filler so 4kids didn't care much for them.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    I supposed he's talking about Johto-era Misty? Rachael Lillis really softened her voice during that saga and had her talk really softly. It made her more quiet and dull compared to the first two seasons.

    I dunno if it was that way in Japanese.

    4kids also had the same problem with the repeitition of filler girl voices.
    Not sure what do you mean.
    I watched Johto three times and Misty didnt sounded much different in dub in Johto compared to Kanto and OI.Going by her dialogue and how she acted she was still full of competitive streak, sarcastic comments having tendency to tease Ash and others about their mistakes, passionate for water types and hobbies being spunky and tomboyish.
    Granted she was less temperament,but she started to soft up already in second half of Kanto due to character starting to change gradually maturing. Rachael probably matched that with voice acting,to better fit her maturity.

    I remember Ash sounded more mature in dub in Hoenn compared to original series too.

    As far as personality goes Misty was still quite snarky and vivid in Johto,
    Here are some lines. From Taking it on Chinchou!!
    Misty: If you want to get lost,than have Ash lead the way!

    Or from "As clear as Crystal!" when group got lost.
    Misty:"Typical,cant ask for directions right?"
    Ash."Not to worry Misty, life is too short to get worked up."
    Misty:"your right Ash, perfect especially since someone in here is about to get whole bunch shorter."

    From "Heartbreak of Brock!"
    "Listen up, if you striken up games over, youll never play with love again.This is your last chance"
    Etc,etc.

    Misty didnt got enough screen time, but when she got chance to shine Rachael Lilis did good job with voice acting in Johto.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by adyniz
    I don't miss her that much coz I didn't use to watch Pokemon in English before DP series but this just made me go AWWWW....

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    ^Oh God the nostalgia. Even though only times I heard Veronica Taylor(and other previous voice actors)'s performance when I was a younger child was when I watched pirated copies of Turkish subbed version of Mewtwo Strikes Back and Pokémon 2000; since legal ones were either nonexistant or was uncommon enough for me to not encounter them. Of course, there was also the fact that I barely went to stores for VCDs or VHS(es?) and wasn't really interested in them as I am now but ehh.
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirikizan View Post
    One thing I hated was the way 4Kids treated Kasumi. They took away all her quirks in the dub, like her catchphrases, and referring to herself as "sekai no bishoujo" and her general flirty attitude, I guess because acknowledging sex and whatnot is bad for kids in America. She was so boring in the dub, though, and her VA didn't have the same tsundere snark as her seiyuu did. Changing character personalities is a big no no for me. Also the music and pretty much everything they did I guess.
    She didn't seem too different between the English and JPN versions. While you have a point on the voice, I felt that the overall character was pretty much the same in both languages. Misty would, at first, scold Ash or argue with him. I'm not too sure on the flirty part, though maybe I'm wrong and 4kids really only wanted Brock to be the flirty one (I dunno).

    Plus, I heard somewhere that when 4kids was making vocal songs for Pokemon, they were imitating Japanese Anime by the looks of things. Like 2.B.A Master had an image song for Team Rocket and such. Ironic, huh?
    Well, it'd be hard to explain without filling the entire thread with examples. But I think a good example of the difference is the infamous beach episode.

    In the original she pretty much flaunts her body all over and acts like a beach beauty, but in the dub she's very conservative, even to the point of saying a swimsuit competition is "humiliating and degrading and has to be forced into doing it to repair the shop" but in the original she loves the idea and knows for sure she'll win and acts like the hottest girl there.

    And actually the arguments is one thing I didn't like. And I notice the dub adds in a lot more arguments between the two characters and bash her a lot (maybe to push the 'love angle' thing together? They did have that 'Misty's Song' on the 2B.A Master CD and the dub seemed to love trying to pair them together) I noticed in one episode (an early Jouto one) while they're having a casual conversation in the original about fishing, the dub threw in a lot of "Misty is scaring away all the fish with her ugliness hahaha" lines.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirikizan View Post

    Well, it'd be hard to explain without filling the entire thread with examples. But I think a good example of the difference is the infamous beach episode.

    In the original she pretty much flaunts her body all over and acts like a beach beauty, but in the dub she's very conservative, even to the point of saying a swimsuit competition is "humiliating and degrading and has to be forced into doing it to repair the shop" but in the original she loves the idea and knows for sure she'll win and acts like the hottest girl there.

    And actually the arguments is one thing I didn't like. And I notice the dub adds in a lot more arguments between the two characters and bash her a lot (maybe to push the 'love angle' thing together? They did have that 'Misty's Song' on the 2B.A Master CD and the dub seemed to love trying to pair them together) I noticed in one episode (an early Jouto one) while they're having a casual conversation in the original about fishing, the dub threw in a lot of "Misty is scaring away all the fish with her ugliness hahaha" lines.
    For the first one, 4kids probably didn't want to have Pokemon being accused of sexism and considering that it was the 90's when women were being portrayed as more independent and less girly in most media, who can blame 'em?

    The second one: I'm not sure why 4kids put in Pokeshipping hints at all. As for the arguments, it was aimed at kids so they wanted more comedy and chemistry between the two for giggles.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    I have a very soft spot for their early seasons. Yes, they are nostalgic, but for the most part, they did OK for the first season. I can agree that the unnecessary paint edits are definitely their cons.

    The first third of Kanto had more dub music, but as the episodes progressed, more japanese music was kept and despite the episodes varying on how much was kept, the japanese music in the rest of Kanto and the whole Orange Islands arc outweighed the dub music.

    The Johto Journeys kinda went back to the way the amount of bgm varies in the first third of kanto, but it was still watchable to me because I thought they did a good job at keeping some music for important events. Charizard's Burning Ambition for example. They kept this emotional piece of music at the end of the episode (1999~2001-M32) that isn't heard very often even in the japanese version. This was the only time that they did this.

    When Johto League Champions started, the dub music outweighed the japanese music all the way to the end of 4Kids' run of the anime. I didn't like that the japanese soundtrack for Revelation Lugia got replaced alot. Especially my favorite ones like the BGM that played when Charizard battles Blaziken in Episode 274 and the episode after that had this calm, orchestral piece of music played during Misty's flashback.

    If I can have any wish I want, it would be to have the dub leave all of the music intact starting from the beginning. A fan can dream though. A fan can dream.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirikizan View Post
    Well, it'd be hard to explain without filling the entire thread with examples. But I think a good example of the difference is the infamous beach episode.

    In the original she pretty much flaunts her body all over and acts like a beach beauty, but in the dub she's very conservative, even to the point of saying a swimsuit competition is "humiliating and degrading and has to be forced into doing it to repair the shop" but in the original she loves the idea and knows for sure she'll win and acts like the hottest girl there.
    Eh i guess its matter of preference. I recall she acted quite girly in dub version too wanting to win competition, although she did sounded slightly more shy. Besides she was always tomboyish,so it was understandable that she will be less girly than May or Dawn were.

    I dont know. I always liked her Japanese VA Mayumi Iizuka doing great portrayal of Misty character, but i thought Rachael Lillis did great job in dub too(most of the time) staying faithful to character quirks and persona.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    The second one: I'm not sure why 4kids put in Pokeshipping hints at all. As for the arguments, it was aimed at kids so they wanted more comedy and chemistry between the two for giggles.
    Its not that much surprising, considering how 4kids only expanded on something which was established to exist in original. In Japanese version there were quite a few episodes containing hints of Misty having romantic affection toward Ash, so i presume dubbed company founded concept cute and decided to take it one step further.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirikizan View Post
    And actually the arguments is one thing I didn't like. And I notice the dub adds in a lot more arguments between the two characters and bash her a lot (maybe to push the 'love angle' thing together? They did have that 'Misty's Song' on the 2B.A Master CD and the dub seemed to love trying to pair them together) I noticed in one episode (an early Jouto one) while they're having a casual conversation in the original about fishing, the dub threw in a lot of "Misty is scaring away all the fish with her ugliness hahaha" lines.
    I'm guessing 4kids' writers wanted dialogue kids would like and laugh at better (or so they were thinking). I don't mind much since it gave them better chemistry (better than Ash with Iris any day). I don't mind this kind of dub dialogue so long as it doesn't change any important facts.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Oh dear,...


    Pros:

    - sometimes the dialogue were pretty funny and an improvment over the original script
    - the first Johto opening was a very catchy themesong and my favourite dub opening
    - some Pokémon kept their Japanese voices, an advantage over the German dub which replaced every voice (even Pikachu for the first 52 episodes of the very first airing o.o)

    Cons:

    - the replacement music
    - edits and senseless cuts to make the show more western
    - the voices of almost everybody ( most of the VAs sound like they never dubbed anything not aimed at kids or teenagers for example, the acting is sub-par, too many characters are voiced by only a handful VAs, was it really necessary for Misty and Jessie to share the same VA? or Ash, his mom and May? What about Brock and James? what is this, South Park? you can hear they are the same people. this isn't professional at all to me, some voices didn't even fit the characters, like Brock..what's up with him and his smokey voice? )
    - almost every opening besides the first Johto opening


    Maybe I sound way too harsh but this I how I feel about the 4KIDS dub of Pokémon, maybe I am missing the needed nostalgia value since I didn't grow up with the US 4KIDS dub . I started to watch the japanese version with AG and never went back ( the German dub was terrible as well and had even more errors due to lazy translating and directing) to the dub.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Pros:
    -Pretty realistic-sounding voice acting (for the main characters, at least).
    -Had nice dialogue for some characters.
    That's pretty much it....

    Cons:
    -Boring theme songs. They all had male-singers who all sounded exactly the same and the lyrics sounded the same too. The first theme song was probably the worst.
    -Blaring annoying, synthesized "music" 24/7 replacing atmospheric silence.
    -Replacing incredible Japanese BGM.
    -Erasing Japanese text and culture in order to have that stereotypical American Saturday-morning cartoon feel. Yep, didn't work.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Agaçant View Post
    -Erasing Japanese text and culture in order to have that stereotypical American Saturday-morning cartoon feel. Yep, didn't work.
    Text I don't mind if they just translate the words to English. Culture... no way, Jose.

    And I don't get why they had to give Anime that stereotypical America cartoon feel back then. It pisses me off when they purposely make something good into something generic as though the idea of being different from the crowd was far too "risky." Last time I checked, being original and different was highly encouraged in the realm of entertainment.

    It's like these kinds of dubbers watch an Anime with neat characters, cool dialogue, catchy and atmospheric music and complex storytelling with neat details and think "F**k that s**t! Kids love generic crappy cartoons!" like the xenophobic hacks they are.
    MizuTaipu likes this.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Pros:
    Nostalgic, charming, believable voices. (Maddie Blaustein as Meowth, helloooo)
    I didn't want to punch Max & May in the face. (Max's voice was the most irritating thing EVER* in the TPCi dub, and May sounded ridiculous)
    Decent openings. (The Battle Frontier opening hurt my ears)
    Good dialogue, and unbutchered Team Rocket mottos.

    Cons:
    Repetitive music and some voices were too easy to recognise. 4Kids repeated a lot of the music notoriously.
    The whole "rice bun" controversy and calling them sandwiches. Even as a kid I thought "Wtf?".
    As someone pointed out above, a lot of the references to Japanese culture got edited out and was missed by the American audience.



    *No, seriously. Listen to it. Max's TPCi voice is like nails down a chalkboard.
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  14. #104
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Oshascott View Post
    Pros:
    Nostalgic, charming, believable voices. (Maddie Blaustein as Meowth, helloooo)
    I didn't want to punch Max & May in the face. (Max's voice was the most irritating thing EVER* in the TPCi dub, and May sounded ridiculous)
    Decent openings. (The Battle Frontier opening hurt my ears)
    Good dialogue, and unbutchered Team Rocket mottos.

    Cons:
    Repetitive music and some voices were too easy to recognise. 4Kids repeated a lot of the music notoriously.
    The whole "rice bun" controversy and calling them sandwiches. Even as a kid I thought "Wtf?".
    As someone pointed out above, a lot of the references to Japanese culture got edited out and was missed by the American audience.



    *No, seriously. Listen to it. Max's TPCi voice is like nails down a chalkboard.
    Heh I totally agree with you on Max's PUSA voice. If he had that voice during Hoenn I likely would have hated him entirely. It's amazing how Max had this kind of youthful energy in his 4kida voice but his PUSA one was just bland, and too nerdy. I think they didn't even bother to give him a good voice because they knew he would be gone soon anyway.

    I can't agree with you on May's new voice though, it was similar to the original and actually surpassed her first voice in some areas such as during the Kanto GF or Movie 9. In fact I always thought her voice was the most accurate to the original when the dub switch first happened.

    Although I find it really strange Veronica Taylor almost never gets recognition for her May voice.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

    I know it's short but:

    Pros

    Kanto, Orange Islands, and The Johto Journeys kept a considerable amount of Japanese BGM. (Heck, about 8 or 9 episodes actually had all of the music intact with the dub music filling in silence). They were at least watchable to me.

    Cons

    More dub music than the Japanese BGM from Johto League Champions up to the end of 4kids' run consistently (the average maximum was 6-7 at most.) I didn't like how they replaced the soundtrack from Revelation Lugia in the Master Quest episodes (Movie 2 had some of the best music I heard in a Pokemon franchise).

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