Thread: The Pros and Cons of 4kids

Originally Posted by Dogasu

I thought she sounded nearly identical at first and only started differentiating her voices later on. But I guess different people hear things differently.

I could also immediately tell it was Veronica voicing May since I was very familiar with her Delia voice (at the time as a kid I was like..."Huh...why does May sound like Ash's mom?"). At the time, I didn't mind, though.

Although, it's WAY better than if they let Lisa Ortiz voice her: "Oh HAI I'm like totally Lina Inverse!," but I actually really liked Taylor's voice for the character as she went along. She sounded really energetic, youthful, bubbly, and exciting. Obviously I think she's more fond of voicing Ash as she was with the character for 400+ episodes, but I get the feeling she really did care for the role of May a lot too.

To me, Veronica's May sounds too much like her Delia, whereas Michele's May sounds way too much like her Misty. Of the two, I'd easily pick Taylor's voice, though (I prefer the original dub cast, so it's my bias speaking. I'm sure others feel differently.). ;)

Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

So then why is it whenever you hear people mention Veronica Taylor, even on places like youtube, fanfiction/fanart websites, and the like, people only mention her Ash? I think people assumed that since Max got a VA who didn't do any other major pokemon character, that May was voiced by some new female as well.

If I can take a guess, part of the reason might be because May's replacement wasn't as crappy as Ash's. Ash's voice was most people's main concern.

I actually disagree with you. I mean, if we were comparing Sarah's current BW Ash to Michele's BF and DP May? I'd rather Sarah's BW Ash. If you mean back then in BF? Both were terrible, but Sarah was atrocious at the role, IMO.

Originally Posted by SonGoku

Originally Posted by Dogasu

I thought she sounded nearly identical at first and only started differentiating her voices later on. But I guess different people hear things differently.

I could also immediately tell it was Veronica voicing May since I was very familiar with her Delia voice (at the time as a kid I was like..."Huh...why does May sound like Ash's mom?"). At the time, I didn't mind, though.

Although, it's WAY better than if they let Lisa Ortiz voice her: "Oh HAI I'm like totally Lina Inverse!," but I actually really liked Taylor's voice for the character as she went along. She sounded really energetic, youthful, bubbly, and exciting. Obviously I think she's more fond of voicing Ash as she was with the character for 400+ episodes, but I get the feeling she really did care for the role of May a lot too.

To me, Veronica's May sounds too much like her Delia, whereas Michele's May sounds way too much like her Misty. Of the two, I'd easily pick Taylor's voice, though (I prefer the original dub cast, so it's my bias speaking. I'm sure others feel differently.). ;)

Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

So then why is it whenever you hear people mention Veronica Taylor, even on places like youtube, fanfiction/fanart websites, and the like, people only mention her Ash? I think people assumed that since Max got a VA who didn't do any other major pokemon character, that May was voiced by some new female as well.

If I can take a guess, part of the reason might be because May's replacement wasn't as crappy as Ash's. Ash's voice was most people's main concern.

I actually disagree with you. I mean, if we were comparing Sarah's current BW Ash to Michele's BF and DP May? I'd rather Sarah's BW Ash. If you mean back then in BF? Both were terrible, but Sarah was atrocious at the role, IMO.

I was comparing both of their BF counterparts, I said BF Ash had a crappier voice than BF May.

Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi

Originally Posted by SonGoku

Originally Posted by Dogasu

I thought she sounded nearly identical at first and only started differentiating her voices later on. But I guess different people hear things differently.

I could also immediately tell it was Veronica voicing May since I was very familiar with her Delia voice (at the time as a kid I was like..."Huh...why does May sound like Ash's mom?"). At the time, I didn't mind, though.

Although, it's WAY better than if they let Lisa Ortiz voice her: "Oh HAI I'm like totally Lina Inverse!," but I actually really liked Taylor's voice for the character as she went along. She sounded really energetic, youthful, bubbly, and exciting. Obviously I think she's more fond of voicing Ash as she was with the character for 400+ episodes, but I get the feeling she really did care for the role of May a lot too.

To me, Veronica's May sounds too much like her Delia, whereas Michele's May sounds way too much like her Misty. Of the two, I'd easily pick Taylor's voice, though (I prefer the original dub cast, so it's my bias speaking. I'm sure others feel differently.). ;)

Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

So then why is it whenever you hear people mention Veronica Taylor, even on places like youtube, fanfiction/fanart websites, and the like, people only mention her Ash? I think people assumed that since Max got a VA who didn't do any other major pokemon character, that May was voiced by some new female as well.

If I can take a guess, part of the reason might be because May's replacement wasn't as crappy as Ash's. Ash's voice was most people's main concern.

I actually disagree with you. I mean, if we were comparing Sarah's current BW Ash to Michele's BF and DP May? I'd rather Sarah's BW Ash. If you mean back then in BF? Both were terrible, but Sarah was atrocious at the role, IMO.

I was comparing both of their BF counterparts, I said BF Ash had a crappier voice than BF May.

Oh, most definitely. I couldn't agree more. :)

I gather a lot of people at 4kids never played the games.

There are mistakes in episodes such as Brock saying water types are weak to fire types (lol), or Misty calling Furret a ground type, or the usual Machoke/Machamp mistakes, or calling a Pidgeot a Pidgeotto instead.

There are a lot of various errors like that in the 4kids dub, some that are incredibly stupid and should have been caught before they completed the episodes.

Then there was that god awful Mukrrow episode from Johto where Ash mentions Scyther as if it was part of his team, when it was really about beating Bugsy's Sycther with Cyndaquil. Goddamn 4kids and those silly mistakes.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

I gather a lot of people at 4kids never played the games.

There are mistakes in episodes such as Brock saying water types are weak to fire types (lol), or Misty calling Furret a ground type, or the usual Machoke/Machamp mistakes, or calling a Pidgeot a Pidgeotto instead.

There are a lot of various errors like that in the 4kids dub, some that are incredibly stupid and should have been caught before they completed the episodes.

Then there was that god awful Mukrrow episode from Johto where Ash mentions Scyther as if it was part of his team, when it was really about beating Bugsy's Sycther with Cyndaquil. Goddamn 4kids and those silly mistakes.

True, that's one of the only things I actually like about TPCi's dub over the 4Kids dub. Less errors (though they have made some stupid ones too, but ended up correcting most of them). Still, I really don't care for them, because I just laughed whenever I saw 4Kids do that.

Stupid? Yes.
Hilarious? Yes.

One of the things I really miss from the 4Kids version are the opening and the background music they chose. The background music, especially during battles, were really exciting and fun to listen to. They made the battles, even your average Team Rocket battle, exciting. Nowadays, the battle music and other music in general is kind of bland.

Pros: VERONICA TAYLOR (My love for that woman will never die out), to me she will always be Ash. ERIC STUART too, Brock & James' original voice actor. The Openings... I listen to them today as normal songs, meaning they make it onto my ipod playlists, regardless of what people on the train think haha, although I do lower the volume somewhat just to save my maturity from being attacked by old peoples inner thoughts.
I can't think of any Cons, and that's not because I'm biased, I just can't think.

I'd also like to say, in one episode, they did actually refer to Riceballs as Riceballs, but it was a one off... They then returned to Donuts... When I find that episode I will tell everyone the name xD Right now I'm blank lol.

Originally Posted by Jolty94

I'd also like to say, in one episode, they did actually refer to Riceballs as Riceballs, but it was a one off... They then returned to Donuts... When I find that episode I will tell everyone the name xD Right now I'm blank lol.

That is EP025: Don't Be Mad Okorizaru!/Primeape Goes Bananas. 4Kids have also called onigiri stuff like ice cream sandwiches and even popcorn balls.

Originally Posted by MizuTaipu

Originally Posted by Jolty94

I'd also like to say, in one episode, they did actually refer to Riceballs as Riceballs, but it was a one off... They then returned to Donuts... When I find that episode I will tell everyone the name xD Right now I'm blank lol.

That is EP025: Don't Be Mad Okorizaru!/Primeape Goes Bananas.

Nope, they were in fact called doughnuts in that episode - in fact, the word "doughnuts" was overly stressed several times in that episode.

I think the episode Jolty might have been refering to was this episode - or perhaps, there were other cases where the term riceballs was used.

Originally Posted by MizuTaipu

Originally Posted by Jolty94

I'd also like to say, in one episode, they did actually refer to Riceballs as Riceballs, but it was a one off... They then returned to Donuts... When I find that episode I will tell everyone the name xD Right now I'm blank lol.

That is EP025: Don't Be Mad Okorizaru!/Primeape Goes Bananas. 4Kids have also called onigiri stuff like ice cream sandwiches and even popcorn balls.

Urm no actually, it was in an episode with Morrison I believe, or Tyson, one of the two, in the AG Series.

The repeitition of Liza Ortiz for filler characters is a con.

Is it just me or was just about every filler girl from Johto and Hoenn voiced by Lisa Ortiz? It got really annoying to hear the same girls voice come out of so many different characters mouths. She even voiced Gym leaders like Flannery and barely made an effort to change her voice for a different character.

I don't really give a shit about the English dub, since I grew up with a different one which is just as awful and now I only watch the Japanese version. The problem I have with 4Kids is that their awful translations made all the other dubs have awful translations as well. I'm Mexican, so I grew up with many Latin American dubs. Most of them are pretty good in the sense that they're actually translations of the Japanese version (such as with CardCaptor Sakura, Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and many others I never watched), but they've got terrible voice actors. So the Latin American Pokémon dub had terrible voice actors AND a bad translation (thanks, 4Kids!). At the very least, the Latin American dub had the sense to correct a couple of things 4Kids got wrong (such as Jessie's "Einstein invented the light bulb!"), buuuuuut, it's still an awful dub.

In short:
Con: Awful translations led to all the other dubs having awful translations as well.

One of the things I wish 4Kids did from the beginning was keep the original background music and silence. There were virtually no vocal tracks in the Kanto days (save for the occasional Mezase Pokémon Master, which they could have replaced with the perennially crappy Pokémon Theme), so I can't see why they didn't do that. The Japanese writing being erased doesn't bother me as much as the music issue; they could have saved money putting translated subtitles for the kana and kanji that needed to be understood.

Other than that, the vocal cast and the translation was actually pretty good back then.

I noticed a lot of people are praising the old 4K actors a lot. Initially, i probably would be, too. However, putting aside nostalgia glasses (or would that be a nostalgia hearing aid :P) when i recently went back and watched a lot of old stuff on Boomerang, i actually started to feel like the acting on a lot of roles didn't age well, and now much more prefer the current actors. In fact, i think the only reason i didn't like any of the new people at first was just cuz i wasn't used to any of them. But after time has passed, they got used to their roles, and i got used to hearing them, listening to them side-by-side with the 4k voices surprising has me preferring the new voices.

Also, was it just me, or did 4kids have only like four or five actors that they had playing every role in every show they ever dubbed. Seriously, aside from the butchered editing they did on so many shows, that's probably my next biggest peeve with them. Conversely, i look at anime dubbed by Funimation or Viz, and there is a ton more variety. For example, in the Funi dub on One Piece, the producers have stated on numerous occasions that refuse to let any actor play more then one role on the show, even if it's two different characters who would never appear in the same episode together. Okay, granted they must have a huge actor pool to pull that off, and i'm sure they'll run out and have to re-use some people eventually, considering how long the series is, but it's still a good philosophy to have as it helps prevent the repetitiveness of hearing the same voices over and over and over.

Originally Posted by Morgil

I noticed a lot of people are praising the old 4K actors a lot. Initially, i probably would be, too. However, putting aside nostalgia glasses (or would that be a nostalgia hearing aid :P) when i recently went back and watched a lot of old stuff on Boomerang, i actually started to feel like the acting on a lot of roles didn't age well, and now much more prefer the current actors. In fact, i think the only reason i didn't like any of the new people at first was just cuz i wasn't used to any of them. But after time has passed, they got used to their roles, and i got used to hearing them, listening to them side-by-side with the 4k voices surprising has me preferring the new voices.

Also, was it just me, or did 4kids have only like four or five actors that they had playing every role in every show they ever dubbed. Seriously, aside from the butchered editing they did on so many shows, that's probably my next biggest peeve with them. Conversely, i look at anime dubbed by Funimation or Viz, and there is a ton more variety. For example, in the Funi dub on One Piece, the producers have stated on numerous occasions that refuse to let any actor play more then one role on the show, even if it's two different characters who would never appear in the same episode together. Okay, granted they must have a huge actor pool to pull that off, and i'm sure they'll run out and have to re-use some people eventually, considering how long the series is, but it's still a good philosophy to have as it helps prevent the repetitiveness of hearing the same voices over and over and over.

The whole debate over the voice acting is subjective itself, as is what dub is better. Really depends on one's preferences.

I'm actually used to the current VAs, but I prefer the original 4Kids dub VAs myself. Initially, I also thought I preferred the 4Kids voices over the latter voices because of nostalgia.

Watching the older eps again, though, I realized I really do prefer the former dub cast to the current one. I heard them side-by-side, and was shocked how much more I liked the 4Kids dub voices over TPCi's dub voices. I was thinking, "Wow...THIS is how good it used to be? What happened?"

Personally, I feel they were way better and I've never liked the switch.

I will agree most of TPCi's voice actors have gotten better as time has passed, but some (i.e. Brock, May, Meowth) ended up actually getting worse to me as time passed. Others, like Ash, Jessie, and James, have continued to improve as time has passed, though.

I'm betting it's not just you, but IMO, FUNimation and Viz are no different than 4Kids was with reusing the same voices/voice actors over and over again in their dubs. Chris Sabat, J. Michael Tatum, Vic Mignogna (FUNi), and Yuri Lowenthal, Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, Kate Higgins (Viz)...they do the same thing from what I've seen. Even TPCi is now casting Tom Wayland, Marc Thompson, and Billy Bob Thompson in nearly every episode of BW these days. That was one of the best things about TPCi's dub that I liked about their dub: no reusing the same VAs continuously. Too bad they're doing it as well now.

It's quite scary to me, because Pokemon is one of the few anime where I prefer the original dub cast to their successors.

Originally Posted by MizuTaipu

One of the things I wish 4Kids did from the beginning was keep the original background music and silence. There were virtually no vocal tracks in the Kanto days (save for the occasional Mezase Pokémon Master, which they could have replaced with the perennially crappy Pokémon Theme), so I can't see why they didn't do that. The Japanese writing being erased doesn't bother me as much as the music issue; they could have saved money putting translated subtitles for the kana and kanji that needed to be understood.

Other than that, the vocal cast and the translation was actually pretty good back then.

Yeah, those are really the flaws of the 4Kids dub of Pokemon. Editing stuff, removing the original BGM, Lisa Ortiz voicing COTDs, and lack of silence. I really have no complaints on anything else here.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

The repeitition of Liza Ortiz for filler characters is a con.

Is it just me or was just about every filler girl from Johto and Hoenn voiced by Lisa Ortiz? It got really annoying to hear the same girls voice come out of so many different characters mouths. She even voiced Gym leaders like Flannery and barely made an effort to change her voice for a different character.

No, it's not just you. That is easily my biggest complaint about the 4Kids dub when it comes to the voice acting. I hated that. ALL of her voices for COTD girls sound like Lina Inverse from Slayers. Even her voice for Oshawott as well as Mars in TPCi's dub sound exactly the same. Ortiz is a good voice actor, but has absolutely NO vocal range. It's amazingly easy to tell when she is voicing a character.

The only time Ortiz demonstrated solid range is as Chopper, and that was in the 4Kids dub of OP of all dubs. XD.

Originally Posted by Trainer Gabriel

Originally Posted by MizuTaipu

Originally Posted by Jolty94

I'd also like to say, in one episode, they did actually refer to Riceballs as Riceballs, but it was a one off... They then returned to Donuts... When I find that episode I will tell everyone the name xD Right now I'm blank lol.

That is EP025: Don't Be Mad Okorizaru!/Primeape Goes Bananas.

Nope, they were in fact called doughnuts in that episode - in fact, the word "doughnuts" was overly stressed several times in that episode.

I think the episode Jolty might have been refering to was this episode - or perhaps, there were other cases where the term riceballs was used.

4Kids also called them riceballs in AG008, too, IIRC. Jessie was like, "Hey! That's my last riceball!" They only started the "sandwich/cracker" crap with the last episode of Season 7 ("A Judgment Brawl"), and in the middle of Season 8. They were actually very good on rice balls in Season 6.