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  1. #46
    zzz YamiiDenryuu's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Obviously, this is a new Mewtwo cloned from the original Mewtwo's eyelash which it just happened to leave lying around somewhere. :P

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    Bow before me, bitches! SammyW27's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    I'd just like for this special to tell us what's up with Mewtwo's voice

    Then again, we all know how the producers like to pull stuff out of their asses, don't we? (Right, Homika?)
    Last edited by SammyW27; 18th June 2013 at 01:29 PM.
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post
    Then again, we all know how the producers like to pull stuff out of their asses, don't we?
    Well, it kind of hurts more that they're choosing to fudge up a story within this canon that actually had some pretty damn good continuity it until now.

    (Minus the Mewtwo on Masaki's door.)

    What perplexes me about the retcon of Mewtwo's "one-of-a-kind" status or the character itself, is that re-airing of the first movie in Japan. Knowing the old Mewtwo's backstory, the kids who didn't know about Mewtwo before also know that it's established in the first movie that there can only *be* one Mewtwo, with a different voice and speech quirks, which causes more confusion than just not revisiting the first movie altogether (kids aren't stupid, even I picked up that plot point when I was a five-years old). What the hell was the point of that?

    It's like advertising your god damned plotholes.
    Last edited by FANG-TAN; 16th June 2013 at 03:27 PM.

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  4. #49
    zzz YamiiDenryuu's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    What exactly is so impossible and plothole-y and asspull-y about another Mewtwo being made? Seriously, it's easy- some group (could be part of Rocket, could be a movie-original team, could be the XY team, whoever) gets hold of information regarding the original Mewtwo project (could be a bit of Mewtwo's DNA, could be research notes that survived the explosion could be their own observations and research on the mysterious failed project TR put so much work into, whatever) and decides they want their own Pokemon superweapon, with some modifications and enhancements that result in the new form. This backstory can easily be explained within the movie and/or the prologue. Why is Mewtwo being one-of-a-kind something that can never be changed? How is it a retcon if another Mewtwo is created long after the first?

    As for the first movie airing, that could easily just be for the hype. The more japanese schoolchildren have Mewtwo on the brain when this movie comes out, the more parents get dragged to the theatre, and the more tickets this movie sells.

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    メイの大切な彼氏 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Because Mewtwo erased Rocket Gang's memories completely about its existence. Plus, he completely removed the laboratory facility on New Island (he rebuilt the lab on the SAME island), and thus the files of its own creation. I doubt a Pokemon that can move a lake underground with its sheer will alone would overlook files IN the laboratory.

    Someone would have to actively be searching for Mewtwo's DNA in order to obtain it. A case where a random dude just suddenly sees an eyelash on the ground while taking a stroll and decides to use it as DNA for cloning because, hey, what the hell, is an asspull. They would have to have known about its existence in the first place. NO ONE knows about him except for Satoshi-tachi and the Rocket trio (they identified with their existential crisis, and Nyaasu went out of its way to betray its boss in order to help them out, so it's highly unlikely they'd tell Sakaki about it - if the writers want to continue to ruin their characters like in BW, then alright, but hell, I doubt Mewtwo had ill-judgment by letting them keep their memories, so I'd consider that taking Shudo's work and shoving a stick up its rear end; another evil).

    Ignoring the above plot points in order to make another Mewtwo character is the definition of retroactive continuity. And nowadays, I don't put it past the writers of the anime to pull that kind of stunt. The Japanese schoolchildren are probably wondering the hell is up with Mewtwo's voice and its different way of talking, after watching Pokemon Smash examine scenes from the first movie followed by the latest movie trailer with Reiko Takashima.

    Then again, that Dr. Yung fellow from that Mastermind special may have had something to do with this... that's really the only way this would work out without continuity errors, even though I personally prefer to ignore that special as out-of-canon because I loathe it so much as a bad fanfiction come true.

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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Even if Mewtwo did delete all the memories and files Team Rocket had, is it really that surprising if they come up with something like "some scientists from Isshu also cloned Mew and came up with another Mewtwo"? This IS a show in which huge monsters fit in tiny metal balls, hitting something quickly somehow makes it colder, and matter is created, after all... Sure, it's BS, but pretty much all science in this series is.
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Judging from the synopsis and the preview, and it seems that the events happen in this order:

    1. Mewtwo arrives in Unova.
    2. It saves Anna and Oscar.
    3. It has an encounter with Danku, who claims to have also been saved by it. Mewtwo is gravely injured.
    4. As they search for Mewtwo, Virgil and the others get a glimpse of Mewtwo's past.

    I find it likely much more likely than not that the flashback pertains to the incident that got Mewtwo injured, rather than anything that happened before that. That is to say, Danku (and presumably his organization) got Mewtwo captured, but it was eventually able to flee and now Danku is looking for it again. It doesn't seem to me that they're setting up a second creation story at all, especially as the special will be 20 minutes at best and will be action-heavy. In contrast, it wouldn't be hard to explain how Mewtwo getting recaptured could have resulted in its voice change and ultimately the new Forme.
    Last edited by Silktree; 17th June 2013 at 01:20 AM.

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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Pikachu View Post
    Even if Mewtwo did delete all the memories and files Team Rocket had, is it really that surprising if they come up with something like "some scientists from Isshu also cloned Mew and came up with another Mewtwo"? This IS a show in which huge monsters fit in tiny metal balls, hitting something quickly somehow makes it colder, and matter is created, after all... Sure, it's BS, but pretty much all science in this series is.
    Yes, it is. Because it's very unlikely that another altered clone of Mew would turn out exactly the same as another specially-altered Mew clone that they don't even know about.

    Even the Pokemon anime has suspension of disbelief that's easily broken depending how how ridiculously contrived it is, especially when it concerns a character whose story arc really had no real inconsistencies otherwise. It may be a series where huge monsters are captured in tiny metal balls, but I could say Wind Waker was a ridiculous video game because Link had a talking boat. Doesn't make it any less stupid and nonsensical if WW Link suddenly grew wings when he receives the Triforce of Courage and started beating the crap out of Ganondorf with them with no explanation, because hey, it's magic, right? It's begging to be criticized

    I'm on the boat that this prologue and the movie will concern a new Mewtwo, which is why I'm miffed that they chose to go with the funky retroactive continuity rather than just simply revisiting the Masachiku Ichimura Mewtwo; taking part in the conflict simply because it identifies with the Genesect Army's crisis and wants to help Satoshi (à la Mewtwo returning to help Red in Pokemon Special). But, if the writers are willing to go through the amount of asspull to pull off creating another Mewtwo character, who's to say they're not going to asspull Mewtwo having a new voice and personality (and make me cringe even more)? They could do it using BS science, right? No, it's just not OK, and there's no excuse for it to be OK.

    I'm looking forward to this prologue special just because I want to see how well they handle this (or not).

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    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    The original Myuutwo can rebuild a lab, complete with a working cloning machine, in a ludicrously short amount of time. It can outfit an Onidrill with a neck camera, and a Kairyuu with a hologram projecting invitation. It can conjure up massive hurricanes. It can create Monster Balls out of thin air, Monster Balls that are can capture other Monster Balls. It can control humans. It can erase humans' memories. It can teleport humans from one place to another. It can teleport a whole fucking lake from one place to another.

    But a brand new Myuutwo being created by some random group in the Isshu region? Why, that's just silly!
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    I really don't think it's that impossible that some evidence, any evidence, of Mewtwo's existence slipped through the cracks and ended up in the hands of one of the many megalomaniacs of the Pokemon world.

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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    Yes, it is. Because it's very unlikely that another altered clone of Mew would turn out exactly the same as another specially-altered Mew clone that they don't even know about.

    Even the Pokemon anime has suspension of disbelief that's easily broken depending how how ridiculously contrived it is, especially when it concerns a character whose story arc really had no real inconsistencies otherwise. It may be a series where huge monsters are captured in tiny metal balls, but I could say Wind Waker was a ridiculous video game because Link had a talking boat. Doesn't make it any less stupid and nonsensical if WW Link suddenly grew wings when he receives the Triforce of Courage and started beating the crap out of Ganondorf with them with no explanation, because hey, it's magic, right? It's begging to be criticized

    I'm on the boat that this prologue and the movie will concern a new Mewtwo, which is why I'm miffed that they chose to go with the funky retroactive continuity rather than just simply revisiting the Masachiku Ichimura Mewtwo; taking part in the conflict simply because it identifies with the Genesect Army's crisis and wants to help Satoshi (à la Mewtwo returning to help Red in Pokemon Special). But, if the writers are willing to go through the amount of asspull to pull off creating another Mewtwo character, who's to say they're not going to asspull Mewtwo having a new voice and personality (and make me cringe even more)? They could do it using BS science, right? No, it's just not OK, and there's no excuse for it to be OK.

    I'm looking forward to this prologue special just because I want to see how well they handle this (or not).
    I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying they're probably going to do it anyway. To be honest, I don't know why they didn't just use the original Mewtwo, but I don't think a new Mewtwo being created is any more stupid and unforgivable than some other stuff they've come up with up to this point, and I don't only mean the "fuck Physics" part.
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  12. #57
    メイの大切な彼氏 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    The original Myuutwo can rebuild a lab, complete with a working cloning machine, in a ludicrously short amount of time. It can outfit an Onidrill with a neck camera, and a Kairyuu with a hologram projecting invitation. It can conjure up massive hurricanes. It can create Monster Balls out of thin air, Monster Balls that are can capture other Monster Balls. It can control humans. It can erase humans' memories. It can teleport humans from one place to another. It can teleport a whole fucking lake from one place to another.

    But a brand new Myuutwo being created by some random group in the Isshu region? Why, that's just silly!
    Human beings in the Pokemon world can't do any of the things suggested here. Mewtwo being a extremely powerful, psychic lab experiment within the story is believable because they set it up properly - plus, when we were told he could do these things, it didn't clash with anything previous established in the anime (he's really not that different from Ace of the DCAU, sans the aneurysm of doom), retro continuity isn't the same.

    If there was a demi-god that that could go head-to-toe with Mewtwo, was able to track down Mewtwo's hadou or something and was somehow able to tear a piece of its limbs off to make a new Mewtwo, then, uh, OK. But it's very silly, in terms of story, to go through all the trouble to establish that Mewtwo has gotten rid of any evidence of its existence aside from some "city urban legend" (which was most likely in Jouto rather than Isshu, and if the original Mewtwo was in Isshu anyway, why not use him?!), only to write in some random group from Isshu that just, out of nowhere, somehow has knowledge of its existence. It goes against what what previously established in the story. Sorry, but that is silly, and (unfortunately) most likely is what they're doing.

    And the idea of another group trying to clone Mew, altering its genetic make-up, and getting the same results? If that becomes a scientific truth in this Pokemon canon, then it gives the anime writers the "logical freedom" to be able to write countless of Mewtwo characters into the world to the point where Mewtwo becomes just another run-of-the-mill Pokemon rather than an identifiable, iconic character, and I think that's just a stupid idea. I *might* be able to accept them somehow finding Mewtwo's DNA and making a copy out of a copy (even though Black Tulip said it wasn't feasible to create another one, hence not just killing Mewtwo and taking its DNA), but making another Mewtwo that has absolutely no relation to the original Mewtwo because the result's just going to be the same every time, is completely stupid.

    I think the anime fandom's gotten to the point where they could make an episode revolving around Merriep falling from the heavens, creating an apocalypse, and destroying the Earth, and shrug it off as OK simply because it's a fantasy world, and magic. You could conversely say that Mewtwo changing its voice isn't silly because, hey, it can do some crazy shit and one day it decided it wanted to talk and sound different, but that doesn't make it any less stupid because there's no reason for it, they just made the change just because.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Pikachu View Post
    I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying they're probably going to do it anyway. To be honest, I don't know why they didn't just use the original Mewtwo, but I don't think a new Mewtwo being created is any more stupid and unforgivable than some other stuff they've come up with up to this point, and I don't only mean the "fuck Physics" part.
    I'm just saying it's depressing that they'd even try to touch something that didn't have such flaws in the first place.

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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    No, it's just not OK, and there's no excuse for it to be OK.
    The excuse is that you're not the target audience anymore, and the writers might just want to create a new Mewtwo character that the younger audiences can learn to love, just like you did with your Ichimura Mewtwo. Children shouldn't have to be locked into the older characters and there's no reason why there can't be two great Mewtwo out there. It's fan glorification to the extreme and its really offputting as a whole for the rest of the fandom to have to see when they just wanna enjoy the ride.

    Honestly I find it weird that people are investing so much emotion in that it has to be the original Mewtwo. With a new one they're not gonna mess up your previous not-actually-being-touched Mewtwo...

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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    I wouldn't be heartbroken if this wasn't the original Mewtwo. I'd probably be more confused as to how another clone of Mew could look exactly like the original Mewtwo than anything else.

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    メイの大切な彼氏 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Prologue To Mewtwo’s Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru View Post
    The excuse is that you're not the target audience anymore, and the writers might just want to create a new Mewtwo character that the younger audiences can learn to love, just like you did with your Ichimura Mewtwo. Children shouldn't have to be locked into the older characters and there's no reason why there can't be two great Mewtwo out there.
    Yeah, and Satoshi might as well have caught another Hitokage and evolve it twice into a Lizardon instead of just calling back the Lizardon he had. Then we would have two cool Lizardon characters to remember from Satoshi's party, despite it making no sense to go that direction, right? Might as well give the new kids their own attachment to a new Lizardon, right?

    If OLM thought kids were so adverse to growing to love the older characters, they wouldn't have re-aired the first movie. The older Pokemon episodes would never be re-aired on the Kids Station. Kids clearly know the old Mewtwo character exists, especially now, and it's firmly established in the first movie that only one was ever created and firmly established later that none would ever be made after (until recently). If the story mechanics allowed it to be possible, sure, I wouldn't poke my criticisms around - make another Mewtwo, alright, cool - but they don't. Frankly, this is as stupid as them shoving Wataru into the Aqua/Magma plot - just use the character that already had a place for the role, instead of shoehorning a different yet similar character within the story. Jeez.

    "Target audience" is a LOUSY excuse to excuse the really glaring inconsistencies in the anime. And a bad excuse in general to tell people to stop pointing out things they don't like. Rurouni Kenshin Shin Kyoto Arc OVA. For older teens and adults. Doesn't mean the shoehorned, random sex scene between Shishio and Yumi was an OK thing to add to the original story. It made no sense!

    (For the record, my seven-year old sister caught the first movie and thinks it's strange that Mewtwo suddenly sounds like a girl in the M16 trailer. She's confused about whether or not it's the same one.)

    It's fan glorification to the extreme and its really offputting as a whole for the rest of the fandom to have to see when they just wanna enjoy the ride.
    I find it more off-putting that people who haven't heard Ichimura-san's Mewtwo voice think it's the same Mewtwo and assume that its voice always sounded like that in Japanese. But I can ignore it and you can too.

    With a new one they're not gonna mess up your previous not-actually-being-touched Mewtwo...
    Yeah, they are. They're going to give us continuity screw-ups. Again. In a story arc which had little to no inconsistencies until they decided to touch it again (indirectly or directly, it's still up the air whether or not this is the same one despite it being glaringly obvious - for all we know they could have retconned his entire character).
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