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Thread: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

  1. #3646
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    That doesn't change the fact he's being given more attention then other Pokemon, other then Mijumaru.
    There still hasn't been an episode focusing on Zuruggu really since BW017.

    Yeah, he's trained with Satoshi, he is his trainer.
    We barely see him do it though.

    he got into a fight with the other male Pokemon of Satoshi's. Yes, he has interacted.
    No real relationships were formed there, and his interactions with Kibago, his supposed "big brother" were inexistent after BW017.

    I mean what do you expect of her just outta curiosity.
    More.

    What is Pikachu hogging?
    Screen time.

    Kurumayu did take on Arti and learn Energy Ball he's defiantly getting stronger.
    That's 3-5 minutes, I'm talking about the black hole of nothing that's his other appearances where it shows a big bowl of nothing.

    Still don't know what you mean by "underdeveloped".
    Character growth, overcoming flaws, fears, a change in personality. We've seen nothing from anybody but Mijumaru up until now. Most of the pokémon on Ash's team still feel like strangers at this points where they've all been on the main cast for at least 15 episodes

    Zuruggu and Tsutarja have personality, but both lack developpement, battles and screen time. Hatoboh doesn't have much of anything, still nothing really definitive personality wise, none of the traits shown as a Mamepato have appeared since evolving, and lacks developpement, battles, screen time. Pokabu has enough battles, but still nothing on the personality or developpement side.

    So yeah. All of them are incomplete at the moment. Mijumaru is the only one that's really been focused on. Adding one more pokémon is only gonna aggravate the situation.

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    MEGA F'ING AMPHAROS!!! Ampharos King's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    No he's not. He's yet to be in a real trainer battle, yet to train with Ash, hasn't really interacted with any of the other pokémon past episode 20. Really, as the baby pokémon and the one with the most growing up to do, he's severely underused right now. So are Tsutarja and Hatoboh.

    None of those three are being developped in the slightest. Neither is Pokabu and Kurumayu. They're pretty much dead in the water right now with Mijumaru and Pikachu just hogging the screen time.
    We do not know how long this series will last, so there is no reason for the writers to want to rush Scraggy's development. If the writers spent 1 or 2 episodes having Scraggy learn the moves that the game counterpart can, there is little reason for them to continue to portray it over the rest of Ash's reserves. Then, and only then, Scraggy will be seen less and less often as the pokemon that are already "hogging the screentime," in your words, continue to receive more of it. Even if it is little by little, Scraggy is being granted a partial amount of emphasis.

    Scraggy has showed a personality outside his debut appearance. He is headstrong and stubborn. This was why Scraggy decided to stay outside its Poke Ball and decided to help out the Cottonee in BW032. Whether they are repetitive or not, Scraggy's fights with Axew add a layer of comic relief that is rarely seen in this series. The writers are going for a contrast between Scraggy's "Buizel-esque" personality in which he loves to test his strength against other pokemon, and the pokemon's actual weak prowess in battle, right now. To me, this is hilarious and very unique. I am glad that the writers are not making a baby pokemon an equal member of a team after it hatched. This is why I didn't like Phanpy, because it hardly stood out in any way. Scraggy's endeavors and personality, even if it failed to battle a true opponent yet, make it stand out.

    With that said, we really do not know how long it will take until this series will end. It is not like the members of Ash's other teams received much more development than any members from Ash's previous teams at around this time. The only difference at this point is that Ash has three battles, so the fans are only assuming that this region will be shorter than the previous ones. In addition, writers are adding more variety to Ash's team rather than the simple grass-fire-water beatdown team + Pikachu formula.

    I don't know what you mean by Snivy, but when she is shown battling several wild pokemon, interacting with the other pokemon on a regular basis, and is now battling a rival, Snivy is receiving a fair amount of focus. She isn't being neglected or underused quite on the level that Tranquill or Swadloon are. Snivy is lacking overall development (perhaps because Ash does not see a reason to train a pokemon who is already so powerful), yet is still receiving a fair amount of screentime for a pokemon who has yet to compete in a gym battle. It is simply the matter of the writers finding a medium to which Ash and Snivy can develop, which can only happen if both of them are pushed to the limits. However, Snivy is fairly powerful for a pokemon who has yet to be in a gym battle. Snivy has mastered all of her moves, unlike Oshawott or Scraggy, who are in desperate need for allotted training time right now.

    As far as I am concerned, a pokemon does not need to be portrayed as a "human being with feelings and a conscious desire to improve its strength" to be given the screentime that it deserves. That personality can be shown elsewhere outside of a battle, which is arguably the one place in which a pokemon's personality is repressed the most. The personality can help to introduce or improve a relationship between Ash and a pokemon, but it is not necessary. (Some pokemon like Swellow, Staraptor, and Cyndaquil still received a fair amount of development despite not having a noteworthy personality.)

    At the same time, we don't need to see a fluid team relationship between the members of Ash's team. That isn't necessary to convey a sense of growth, either (Bulbasaur and Squirtle, etc.) What truly matters is how much Ash and that pokemon are seen training on-screen. In that respect, Tepig received that emphasis back in BW016. Initially Tepig would be disappointed if he failed to live up to Ash's standards. This was to reference Tepig's previous abandonment, and even Lenora was able to see it. As of BW030, Tepig has placed enough trust in Ash's empathy towards it that he no longer feels the need to overcompensate for his trainer's satisfaction.

    The majority of Scraggy's battles with Axew are most likely added in by the writers and animators to "fill up" an episode without TRio's presence. Even if that thinking is flawed, the writers are attempting to make the first few minutes of an episode somewhat proactive to that development and focus. On a more positive note, as soon as the writers complete Oshawott mastering Aqua Jet, they could get right into Scraggy learning a few new attacks. Nothing is definite.
    Last edited by Ampharos King; 10th May 2011 at 05:06 AM.

  3. #3648
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    There still hasn't been an episode focusing on Zuruggu really since BW017.
    Neither has there been one for any other Pokemon except Tsutarja and Mijumaru and Pikachu if you count the episode with the Koaruhi.

    We barely see him do it though.
    What? I still don't get what your saying, he's often is seen training with Satoshi on a regular basis every one to three episodes

    No real relationships were formed there, and his interactions with Kibago, his supposed "big brother" were inexistent after BW017.
    I still don't see what that has to do with everything. Pokemon don't have to have personalities that stick out a lot to be strong. There obviously not going to give every Pokemon one. Like Ishizumai who doesn't have a "huge" personalities but, I still find much better then other Pokemon. Your expecting a little too much out of a childrens' show.

    More.
    But what? You have to much more specific. I still don't see how Tsutarja's being underused compared to the others her battling record looks just fine to me.

    Screen time.
    Again? What screen time? That one Koaruhi ep and the two gyms?

    That's 3-5 minutes, I'm talking about the black hole of nothing that's his other appearances where it shows a big bowl of nothing.
    Seems ok for a Pokemon caught in ep 18 came out for Kaberune in 19. 20, 21, and 22 were eps to star other Pokes anyway. But, a gym battle 7 eps after captures seems like a awesome appearance.


    Character growth, overcoming flaws, fears, a change in personality. We've seen nothing from anybody but Mijumaru up until now. Most of the pokémon on Ash's team still feel like strangers at this points where they've all been on the main cast for at least 15 episodes

    Zuruggu and Tsutarja have personality, but both lack developpement, battles and screen time. Hatoboh doesn't have much of anything, still nothing really definitive personality wise, none of the traits shown as a Mamepato have appeared since evolving, and lacks developpement, battles, screen time. Pokabu has enough battles, but still nothing on the personality or developpement side.

    So yeah. All of them are incomplete at the moment. Mijumaru is the only one that's really been focused on. Adding one more pokémon is only gonna aggravate the situation.
    Tsutarja and Zuruggu are being used though regardless, you can't deny that. Pokabu did train for the Shippou gym with Satoshi. Still don't see why every Pokemon needs a big personality. There animals not humans.

  4. #3649
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    I think Iris could get a Petilil.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

  5. #3650
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos King View Post
    We do not know how long this series will last, so there is no reason for the writers to want to rush Scraggy's development.
    You do know there's a difference between rushing through developpement and not developping at all, right? A little bit more interactions with Ash, or with the other pokémon on Ash's team, a little 1-on-1 training with Ash. More personality, establishing a storyline, and maybe an actual battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    Neither has there been one for any other Pokemon except Tsutarja and Mijumaru and Pikachu if you count the episode with the Koaruhi.
    Right... so how is adding one more pokémon to Ash's roster gonna help that situation again? Oh wait, it really won't.

    What? I still don't get what your saying, he's often is seen training with Satoshi on a regular basis every one to three episodes
    A sparring match with Kibago isn't really training. There's no progress made, no problems established that need solving, just nothing. It's not developpement.

    There obviously not going to give every Pokemon one.
    They should.

    Your expecting a little too much out of a childrens' show.
    LE GASP, I'm expecting a writer to make his characters relelvant to the narrative and give them personality, which by the way is th barest minimum any writer should do. It's not expecting too much, I'm expecting basic storytelling skills from them.

    Tsutarja and Zuruggu are being used though regardless, you can't deny that.
    Not nearly as much as they should, not nearly as much as they need to be in order to really be developped.

    Still don't see why every Pokemon needs a big personality. There animals not humans.


    You know what? This is not even worth it.
    Last edited by Hellion; 10th May 2011 at 09:54 AM.

  6. #3651
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    I kind of agree...the whole personality thing is a bit overplayed lately here on the forum, and to be honest even without an easy-to-pinpoint personality I think a viewer can like a Pokemon quite a bit based on their species alone...I know that's the case for me with Sewaddle and Dwebble, and Palpitoad or Roggenrola if either one of them join.

    So, I'm all for either Palpitoad or Roggenrola joining or, hell, both. Bring it on I say.

  7. #3652
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty ~ Shackleford View Post
    I kind of agree...the whole personality thing is a bit overplayed lately here on the forum, and to be honest even without an easy-to-pinpoint personality I think a viewer can like a Pokemon quite a bit based on their species alone...I know that's the case for me with Sewaddle and Dwebble, and Palpitoad or Roggenrola if either one of them join.

    So, I'm all for either Palpitoad or Roggenrola joining or, hell, both. Bring it on I say.
    Meh, if you like hollow shells that have the personality of cabbage, that's cool. I want to feel invested in characters, I want to root for them and be excited when they come on screen. Different strokes.

  8. #3653
    Princess of Sinnoh martianmister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    I think BW will be a shorter saga, like Kanto. Because of this, there is no time for creating distinguished personalities for all pokemon, and because of that writers want to fill their time with new captures and focus on some popular pokemon (Mijumaru, Pikachu, etc...)
    1. Satoshi/Ash Ketchum: 801 episodes
    2. Team Rocket: 736 episodes
    3. Takeshi/Brock: 633 episodes
    4. Kasumi/Misty: 282 episodes
    5. Hikari/Dawn: 201 episodes
    6. Haruka/May: 197 episodes
    7. Masato/Max: 192 episodes
    8. Iris: 141 episodes
    9. Dent/Cilan: 138 episodes
    10. Kenji/Tracey: 44 episodes

  9. #3654
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    I think BW will be a shorter saga, like Kanto. Because of this, there is no time for creating distinguished personalities for all pokemon, and because of that writers want to fill their time with new captures and focus on some popular pokemon (Mijumaru, Pikachu, etc...)
    Which is part of what made Kanto so crap... :P

  10. #3655
    MEGA F'ING AMPHAROS!!! Ampharos King's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    You do know there's a difference between rushing through development and not developing at all, right? A little bit more interactions with Ash, or with the other pokémon on Ash's team, a little 1-on-1 training with Ash. More personality, establishing a storyline, and maybe an actual battle.
    The time will come when Scraggy will be able to compete on that higher level, but should we expect the writers to automatically grant a pokemon who cannot even inflict damage at all a decent level of strength and a few new moves? Is it right to give Scraggy that power only a few episodes after it was revealed to have such a handicap?

    Scraggy stands out because he loves to battle and to show off, but at the same time, he lacks the strength to do so properly. This distinction makes Scraggy more unique than a simple Buizel clone, thriving to battle and having the power to back it up. At the same time, it gives Ash and Scraggy a goal to aim for. It provides Ash a reason to keep using Scraggy and for the writers to remember Scraggy's existence.

    It may be straightforward, but Scraggy has a storyline. Scraggy is a pokemon who wants to become stronger and to battle but he cannot battle. To get Scraggy to that level will require much more training than simply learning how to control a move (Ash's Gible or Snorunt). As a baby pokemon, Scraggy has to get adjusted to battling first-hand. The writers seem very adamant in wanting to take things slowly with Scraggy; to show that not all of Ash's pokemon don't automatically have that level of strength or finesse prior to his training them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    A sparring match with Kibago isn't really training. There's no progress made, no problems established that need solving, just nothing. It's not developement.
    When we look back into past series when Ash did nearly the same thing for other pokemon, it was not like those pokemon acquired that level of success and mastery mere minutes after the training proceeded. Snorunt simply needed to learn how to control its Ice Beam properly, and it only did so after it evolved into a Glalie. Before this was able to happen, Ash and Snorunt trained for a good 6-7 episodes. Ash didn't do anything more here than what he had done with Scraggy.

    Meanwhile, we knew how long it took for Ash's Gible to master his Draco Meteor. The progress was so slow to the point that when Gible happened to master the move in a Sinnoh League match, we wondered if the writers had the rest of the training take place off-screen. The writers tried to keep things fresh with Gible, but Ash and Gible's slow training took up a fair portion of many episodes. By the time we reached the Grand Festival, Gible only improved splitting the Draco Meteor into halves.

    In Snorunt's case, the level of mastery and development came only seconds after it evolved. In Gible's case, although the pokemon's attack did cause some tension between him and Piplup, would you call that development or interaction? Gible did have a brief battle with Dawn's Togekiss the episode after she got it, but even at that time, it was because Gible could not master DM that the battle ended. Gible fought evenly on Togekiss's level prior to using the move that it could not control.

    The difference between Snorunt/Gible and Scraggy is that the former two pokemon could still battle with other moves. Furthermore, it was only one of their attacks that they had difficulty with. On the other hand, Scraggy cannot battle at all and the two moves that he can use are not effective against any opponent. This is why this progress has to be taken very slowly. The writers wanted to approach training a pokemon with no power or skill whatsoever, as opposed to a pokemon who cannot control an attack yet is still competent in battle.

    At this point, Scraggy's situation may appear to be hopeless, but by all means, it does not mean that he hasn't interacted with any of the pokemon after the debut episode. Scraggy's greatest highlight is the contrast between his stubborn personality and his actual weak body. In BW028, when Emolga used Attract to steal apples from Ash's pokemon, Scraggy was the one who attempted to attack Pikachu numerous times with Headbutt but failed to damage the pokemon. Meanwhile, the other enraged pokemon-- Sewaddle, Tepig, and Oshawott-- still caused damage to Pikachu. Scraggy wanted to attack Pikachu with his full power, but that full power did not do anything. The writers are reminding us here that Scraggy is impaired here.

    In BW032, Scraggy's stubborn temperament caused him to confront a wild Cottonee. This interaction was at the point that Scraggy refused to go back into its ball after the Cottonee completed its training.

    Are we to imply that just because Ash/Snorunt interacted with Morrison, or Gible's relationship with Piplup, that these two pokemon "developed" from their training? From past experience, it should be expected that this training will take a long time. Scraggy may appear to be a hindrance to the other pokemon developing due to the nature of the struggles in which it must overcome.
    Last edited by Ampharos King; 10th May 2011 at 02:50 PM.

  11. #3656
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos King View Post
    The time will come when Scraggy will be able to compete on that higher level, but should we expect the writers to automatically grant a pokemon who cannot even inflict damage at all a decent level of strength and a few new moves?
    Oh lord, this is the Iris argument all over again. Again, there's a middle road between doing nothing until far down the road where suddenly you make Zuruggu stronger, and doing everything right now. That Zuruggu getting stronger'll happen much later is something we all agree on, but that doesn't mean that the writers shouldn't show him making small progress, focus an episode on him, maybe delve more into his interactions with Satoshi. I agree the writers are taking things slowly with Zuruggu and in theory, that's great, except right now, slowly looks a whole lot like nothing at all.

    To me, Zuruggu is, with Tsutarja, the most interesting pokémon on Satoshi's team right now, but they are both really underused right now, both in battle, as personalities on the show, as comedy, as vectors of developpement for Satoshi, etc.

  12. #3657
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty ~ Shackleford View Post
    So, I'm all for either Palpitoad or Roggenrola joining or, hell, both. Bring it on I say.
    I agree. If the anime can make Roggenrola look cute or cool, I'll gladly use it in-game.

    LOL if Iris catches it and has no idea how it eats.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

  13. #3658
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Really? I already think Roggenrola looks cute...

    It's that "ear", actually...because it gives off the appearance of a cute little eye, oddly enough. One of my favorite "less is more" designs I think.

  14. #3659
    Princess of Sinnoh martianmister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    If one of them will be captured, I would prefer Roggenrola to Palpitoad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Which is part of what made Kanto so crap... :P
    Unfortunately you're right. This will also explains the reason for Touko's replacement by Iris and writers' don't giving her enough screentime...
    1. Satoshi/Ash Ketchum: 801 episodes
    2. Team Rocket: 736 episodes
    3. Takeshi/Brock: 633 episodes
    4. Kasumi/Misty: 282 episodes
    5. Hikari/Dawn: 201 episodes
    6. Haruka/May: 197 episodes
    7. Masato/Max: 192 episodes
    8. Iris: 141 episodes
    9. Dent/Cilan: 138 episodes
    10. Kenji/Tracey: 44 episodes

  15. #3660
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

    Right... so how is adding one more pokémon to Ash's roster gonna help that situation again? Oh wait, it really won't.
    But, still you have to remember. They can't spend eps upon eps focusing on Pokemon training and training and stuff. They have to advertise effectively and there are many different elements.

    I never said anything about adding Dangoro or Gamagaru to Satoshi-Tachi.


    A sparring match with Kibago isn't really training. There's no progress made, no problems established that need solving, just nothing. It's not developpement.
    A Practice Battle *is* training. That goes without saying. Zuruggu has to battle wild and weak Pokemon because he's just not strong enough. Satoshi isn't dumb enough to throw his weak Zuruggu up against trainer Pokemon, the way he did when he threw his newborn Phanpy up against a Delibird and it did horribly.

    They should.I'm expecting a writer to make his characters relelvant to the narrative and give them personality, which by the way is th barest minimum any writer should do. It's not expecting too much, I'm expecting basic storytelling skills from them.
    Three main characters. If they all have 6 Pokemon together that's 18 Pokemon, it's a bit weird to even think each one is gonna get a unique and big personality. Currently all of them have 12 combined. Not everyone is gonna stick out, let alone can I even think of 12 different personalities that differentiate themselves from each other by a lot and as well as the previous Pokemon personalities before BW.


    Not nearly as much as they should, not nearly as much as they need to be in order to really be developped.
    She seems to have a maxed out move set already, and if your looking for more out of her character then the calm, cool, and collected personality. Just wait for the next Emonga episode or the episode where we might find out why she left her trainer. But, I honestly don't know what you want from Zuruggu? A weak Pokemon can't handle trainer battles. Nor do I think he could even do the type of training Mijumaru did in his past episode without his Hatochi.

    You know what? This is not even worth it.
    You know what? You don't have to act like that you know. I tried to have a friendly mature young adult discussion with you. But, when you do things like that, you come off as being bitter rude. I understand you may be frustrated about answering my question and the discussion, but that doesn't excuse you making comments like that regardless.
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 10th May 2011 at 05:04 PM.

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