Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

[Reila]

Well, leaving Sewaddle, Zuruggu and Sandile aside, I wonder who will catch that Munna that appeared in a "poster" some time ago. I think it fits more Cilan than Iris.

[Emboar]

A Munna? I didn' t knew that...

[Reila]

Well, he/she was in the poster with many pokémon from the group. Sandile was in there also.

[Serperior]

^^ True, but i think it was a random pre-launch Unova Pokémon...

[Hellion]

So likewise with Sewaddle, why would it be treated like a grass type when it's primary typing is bug.

Except now, every time it would make sense for Ash to use a grass type, he now has to choose between Snivy and Sewaddle where as before he would automatically choose Snivy. That means that Sewaddle is detrimental to Snivy.

Also, as I've said before, even if you don't include types into the discussion. The more pokémon Ash gets, the less screen time each pokémon gets (especially with Pikachu and Mijumaru already grabbing a majority of the focus). The less screen time each pokémon gets, the less developped they are, the less tri-dimensional they feel. The less developped they are, the harder it is to care about them.

i tried but i got a wall of text which brought me back to my initial question at the end...

Those would be arguments. If you disagree with them, you can challenge them again. That's what discussion is and that's what we're here for, discussing the show and sharing our opinion on it.

^^ Quoted for Truth
whatever happened to enjoying the show? Right?

Enjoying the show doesn't mean closing your eyes on what you percieve as flaws and not voicing any miscontent. I enjoy the show as a whole, but it isn't perfect. To me, Sewaddle being captured is a major mistake for reasons I've stated: dividing up the screentime is bad for developpement, it's a purposeless and redundant capture as others already on the main cast can bring what Sewaddle can bring and it's, in my opinion, a boring/unoriginal pokémon altogether.

You don't have to agree with those, but if you disagree, then challenge those arguments, don't tell people who don't agree with you to shut up.

[Karpi]

I'm going to make an actual prediction here:

I fully expect that Team Rocket won't last through this series, so I'm going to predict their pokemon teams!

Jessie:
Swoobat (Honestly this has to evolve or they will get nowhere)
Wobbuffet
Seviper

At the least. My prediction is that they will betray Giovanni in the end, and wind up with their old pokemon back in the end. I'm undecided on Yanmega. It doesn't seem nearly as important.

James:
Optional Unova pokemon (trashbag or Maractus)
Carnivine
Mime Jr.

If Jessie gets any pokemon back at all, James will get his Carnivine, seeing as its basically all he has :P And I don't see him leaving Mime Jr. with "bad people," although I despise the thing myself. While he COULD capture a Unova pokemon, I don't think he really needs to because it won't add much to the overall plot.

[Chaosblazer]

Enjoying the show doesn't mean closing your eyes on what you percieve as flaws and not voicing any miscontent.

True, but being miscontent doesn't accomplish anything.

I enjoy the show as a whole, but it isn't perfect.

Truest point ever.

To me, Sewaddle being captured is a major mistake for reasons I've stated: dividing up the screentime is bad for developpement, it's a purposeless and redundant capture as others already on the main cast can bring what Sewaddle can bring and it's, in my opinion, a boring/unoriginal pokémon altogether.

The thing is, you have to give a pokemon a chance before passing judgement on it.

Back in sinnoh alot of people weren't too keen about Ash getting Gible and replacing Gliscor for it because most thought it was redudant at first, but after a few episodes it grew on people.

Everything deserves a shot at being judged after being caught. As for wether or not it effects Snivy's growth, we'll have to see, if it does then who cares since we'll see her other forms with Shooti.

[GWrando]

Ash catching Sewaddle is a good thing. If Ash does defeat the Pokemon League at the end of BW and continues into the Champion League, facing the Elite 4, then he will need to have more pokemon to use for his advantage, he can't be in the middle of training New Pokemon while facing them. And since many fans, myself included, are hoping he does face them soon the fact that he now has more than 1 BUG-TYPE Pokemon in the entirety of the pokemon he has available...

As I have stated before I hope he catches more pokemon and rotates them so they each get the screen time they deserve... although I still don't think he should catch more than 11.

[Hellion]

The thing is, you have to give a pokemon a chance before passing judgement on it.

Some points can be raised up because of the species of pokémon it is, i.e. it's redundant for Ash to have two grass types or yet another bug type when it has yet to catch a psychic, ghost, steel or rock pokémon. The point that more pokémon means less individual screen time and less developpement/focus can also be made, since it's mathematically true.

Everything deserves a shot at being judged after being caught.

I agree. That's why I pass judgement on Sewaddle :D

who cares since we'll see her other forms with Shooti.

That's the thing, I don't see pokémon (on the anime) as mere battling machines who are only there to advertise their species. I expect them to be characters in their own right, with personalities, storylines and focus/battles. Thing is, even with only 5 pokémon, the writers weren't able to provide that for each member of Ash's Unova team, now with another pokémon, Tepig, Snivy and Pidove will get even less scenes/episode where they get developpement and where they show personality.

If Ash does defeat the Pokemon League at the end of BW and continues into the Champion League, facing the Elite 4, then he will need to have more pokemon to use for his advantage

Then he could use his reserves. Have the League be for Pikachu and the Unova Pokémon only and then have the Elite 4 for the Unova pokémon and Ash's reserves (i.e not his released pokémon, like Butterfree or Pidgeotto, nor his in training pokémon, like Charizard or Gliscor).

In that League, Ash would have Heracross as a bug type and the writers could give to Mijumaru or its evos one of three bug moves, making Leavanny pointless.

[Chaosblazer]

That's the thing, I don't see pokémon (on the anime) as mere battling machines who are only there to advertise their species.

At the same time, having too much personality can backfire in your face as was the case with Gliscor and before it learned Brave Bird Staravia.

I expect them to be characters in their own right, with personalities, storylines and focus/battles. Thing is, even with only 5 pokémon, the writers weren't able to provide that for each member of Ash's Unova team, now with another pokémon, Tepig, Snivy and Pidove will get even less scenes/episode where they get developpement and where they show personality.

That's one thing that will never change, someone getting shafted at some point for another, if you believe the writers will EVER give Ash's pokemon equal screen time then your wrong.

In that League, Ash would have Heracross as a bug type and the writers could give to Mijumaru or its evos one of three bug moves, making Leavanny pointless.

Heracross would be deemed worthless on that account if they gave potential Samurott Megahorn.

Heck Snivy's only unique move is Attract, all of it's other moves copy ash's previous grass pokemon.

Vine Whip: Bulbasaur and Bayleef
Leaf Blade: Sceptile
Leaf Storm: Torterra.

by your logic, Snivy would be obsolete already.

[GWrando]

Some points can be raised up because of the species of pokémon it is, i.e. it's redundant for Ash to have two grass types or yet another bug type when it has yet to catch a psychic, ghost, steel or rock pokémon. The point that more pokémon means less individual screen time and less developpement/focus can also be made, since it's mathematically true.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but never use the words Mathematically true around me unless you use that term correctly. Since you have failed to do so today, I will give you a brief lecture. I hope you realize I don't have any ill will when I say this.

Stating that Ash catching more pokemon means less individual screen time and less development being mathemitacally true is only such using false logic.

You are forgetting variables.

Ash caught the least amount of pokemon in the Orange Islands, with only two, and while Lapras got screen time, neither of them really received any development.

Another example is Ash's Primeape, which despite only being owned by Ash for a handfull of episodes had more character development than many of Ash's other Kanto Pokemon, save Charizard & Pikachu.

The Number Ash catches of Pokemon each season isn't consistent and shouldn't ever be... nor are the type differentials. Ash also generally uses a pokemon of a certain type for that types abilities, I honestly don't see him teaching Miju bug moves.

In Gen 1 (Kanto/OI) Ash Caught/Received 13 Official Pokemon & 1 Unofficial

In Gen 2 (Johto) Ash Caught/Received 7 Official Pokemon & 1 Unnofficial

In Gen 3 (Hoenn/BF) Ash Caught/Received 6 Official Pokemon

In Gen 4 (Sinnoh) Ash Caught/Received 6 Official Pokemon

The number of times his pokemon evolve also has never been consistent nor has the amount they received screen time when he caught less pokemon. For example when Ash caught more pokemon in Kanto it is true that Krabby, Tauros, & Muk didn't receive much screen time until the League, but neither did many of Ash's other pokemon he had on hand. The pokemon that had the most screen time in the Gen 1 were Pikachu, Pidgeotto, Butterfree, & Charmander. Meanwhile in Hoenn, which had both the least # of captures & evolutions, Torkoal, Snorunt, & Corphish got very little screen time compared to the others. # of captures & screen time are not mutually exclusive.

To pass judgement on a pokemon because of PERSONAL BIAS is not something an intelligent fan should do. Personal Bias can be good, but without facts to back it up all personal bias looks like is random nonsense being spouted from the mouth of an uneducated individual.

[sevenfive]

Quote: That's the thing, I don't see pokémon (on the anime) as mere battling machines who are only there to advertise their species. I expect them to be characters in their own right, with personalities, storylines and focus/battles. Thing is, even with only 5 pokémon, the writers weren't able to provide that for each member of Ash's Unova team, now with another pokémon, Tepig, Snivy and Pidove will get even less scenes/episode where they get developpement and where they show personality.

I can see where you are coming from with desire to see each pokemon developed as a character and however it is my personal opinion that each pokemon doesn't require an equal amount of screentime to become well developed. Snivy is a pokemon that I see needing more screentime for development than others because as you have said, it has a backstory. Since Sewaddle doesn't have a backstory I don't think that it will cut into Snivy's screentime purely because it doesn't require nearly as much development. I would personally rather not see it get released just because I'm not a fan of releasing pokemon. So although you may not like the addition I don't think it will interfere greatly with the development of the other pokemon on Ash's team.

EDIT: Crap it didn't say who the quote was from, oh well fail on my part. Hellion this was in response to something you said in your last post

[Hellion]

At the same time, having too much personality can backfire in your face as was the case with Gliscor and before it learned Brave Bird Staravia.

True, you can't just have a personality, you need screen time, battles and developpement, which is least likely to happen the more pokémon Ash gets.

That's one thing that will never change, someone getting shafted at some point for another, if you believe the writers will EVER give Ash's pokemon equal screen time then your wrong.

Adding a pokémon to Ash's team, one it doesn't need at that, isn't helping lessen or reverse that situation, which is my entire argument.

For all the talk of moves and types, nobody's really convincingly answered my question: What can Sewaddle bring that other pokémon of Ash's Unova team can't. Bug moves? Mijumaru could do that and it woud fit his blade fighting style. Grass moves? Snivy can do that.

The number of times his pokemon evolve also has never been consistent nor has the amount they received screen time when he caught less pokemon.

You're pointing to Kanto and Hoenn but those two sagas prove my point. Kanto, lots of captures, very little developpement. Hoenn, little captures but almost everybody gets a great deal of screen time and developpement. In Hoenn, only Torkoal really lacked in those departements, and even then, compared to some of Ash's previous pokémon... it wasn't all that unlucky. You're using the Orange Islands has a proof, when it had two captures because there only was 35 episodes and on top of that, Lapras got developpement, but Charizard and Squirtle got more developpement in that then they did in Kanto. They stuck with a small cast and actually got loads of developpement done.

There's a set number of episodes where Ash will only use his Unova team, determined by the release of the next generation of games or the writers choosing to have a new saga. Take out the Iris and Dento episodes, the Rockets episodes and the fillers, you get a batch of episodes for developping Ash's teams and important battles.Pikachu and Mijumaru get the majority of those, then the rest of Ash's pokémon are dividing the rest amongst themselves. The more pokémon Ash gets, the less each gets.

Since Sewaddle doesn't have a backstory I don't think that it will cut into Snivy's screentime purely because it doesn't require nearly as much development.

I totally agree with your point that Snivy requires more time to develop than Sewaddle, since the latter doesn't have a backstory, but that leads me to ask myself two questions: Why is it there in the first place then and why should I care about it?

You said it yourself. No backstory, nothing really hindering it, no problems to overcome... It's plot can be wrapped up in 3-4 more episodes (2 evos, 1-2 battles) It doesn't need anything else after that. How is that interesting? There's no flavour to that pokémon, no actual purpose. Why should I care?

See that's why it was a mistake to capture Sewaddle, it's a lose-lose situation. If it gets little screentime, then it gets almost no developpement and very little personality, making it harder to care about. If it gets a lot of screentime, then it eats up the screen time of other characters and pokémon on the main cast, pokémon that need it more than Sewaddle does.

[dman_dustin]

Except now, every time it would make sense for Ash to use a grass type, he now has to choose between Snivy and Sewaddle where as before he would automatically choose Snivy. That means that Sewaddle is detrimental to Snivy.

Except there's only one gym in the entire Unova League, where that would even be a problem. And that's Yacon.

However what would be wrong if Ash used Snivy/Servine, Leavanny and maybe Dewott.

Does any of Ash's other Pokemon need to be in that gym? Sure there's the possibility of Scraggy, and Sandile but let's be slightly realistic here (if it's caught, and possibly the evolution). But why would Traquill, Pikachu, Tepig/Chaobuu have any reason to be in that gym?

So the problem is why would Ash have to choose between the two? When both of them including a possible Dewott are Ash's only beneficial team against Yacon.

So really Yacon is the only problem.

If you think in the future: Well what about a league challenger? Why can't Leavanny be there for the dark, psychic, and other grass Pokemon?

Snivy/Servine/Serperior can be there for the rock, ground, and water Pokemon.

Thus I can't see the issue here, when Yacon is really the only problem.

And even then Leavanny is a benefit alongside Snivy and Oshawott not a drawback.

Also, as I've said before, even if you don't include types into the discussion. The more pokémon Ash gets, the less screen time each pokémon gets (especially with Pikachu and Mijumaru already grabbing a majority of the focus). The less screen time each pokémon gets, the less developped they are, the less tri-dimensional they feel. The less developped they are, the harder it is to care about them.

How is that even a problem?

Ash usually gets his 6th region Pokemon (5 for Hoenn), near the eighth gym.

How in the fuck is this worse? How is this even a problem?

Gible is supposedly you're favorite character, but look at when it was caught. That's right Gible was caught right before the eighth gym. Likewise, Aipom was caught basically right before Ash's final challenge with Brandon, and "Glalie" was caught before the eighth gym too, and hell Phanpy may have been slightly been better being caught before the 7th gym, but it was still pretty damn late.

So again what the fuck is the issue here? Ash is catching Pokemon early. Which means unlike the bullshit treatment those other Pokemon got at the end of their respective region, any Pokemon caught this early should have better time to develop.

Thus I can only conclude that the issue with Sewaddle is Sewaddle itself. Not typing, not any relation to any other same region Pokemon, not fucking screentime, but the Pokemon itself.


And I for one cannot see how it's such a good thing that Ash has always limits himself the way he has (with very little Pokemon in time for the league, in Hoenn he got damn lucky, and Sinnoh made it obvious he needed to switch). Sure there is character development, but the writer's need to give themselves a big kick in the ass and actually write well.

The more Pokemon Ash catches, the more opportunities to switch up an opponent in the league. Remember Kyle from the Wallace Cup, remember his words to Ash (paraphrasing): "You chose Buizel throughout the whole competition." That's why Ash lost, is because Kyle knew the Pokemon Ash was going to choose, and built a strategy around it.

Kyle's point was right: What good can it do for Ash if he only has: Pikachu, Unfeasant, Samurott, Emboar, Serperior, and Scrafty?

How can Ash beat the Unova League with just those Pokemon, if the opponent knows that he's going to choose those Pokemon and have a counter strategy awaiting?

"Use his other reserves at Oak's lab:" Sure but according to you that's detrimental to Ash's current Pokemon, and to Ash himself. Let's add on top of the fact, that with the way things are going the League is likely going to be in 2012, that's a bit early to not continue advertising the 5th gen Pokemon.

So I am then am left to conclude the only possible solution to this League problem, is Ash catches more Pokemon than he has in the past.

Like I said if we assume Cheren will be in the anime and he will have Samurott, and Shooti having Serperior, and Bianca having Emboar, and if Ash has those Pokemon, I then conclude that Ash needs at least eight Unova Pokemon + Pikachu. That way if there will be 3 full battles of this nature, Ash can switch out his own Serperior with Leavanny (for example), and change out his Samurott against Cheren, and his own Emboar against Bianca.

Now I'm not going to pretend that the writers won't cheat a Pokemon in screen time, and development. But as long as ALL of them get wins in the league, does it really matter? They did what they came to do and that's help Ash achieve his goals to become a Pokemon Master.

[Hellion]

Now I'm not going to pretend that the writers won't cheat a Pokemon in screen time, and development. But as long as ALL of them get wins in the league, does it really matter?

Yes.

See, right then and there is where we disagree. You see Ash's pokémon as battling machines, only matters if they bring this move or this type, but I see them as characters in their own right.

I want to care about them, root for them, feel invested in them. I can't do that if they get crumbs of screentime here and there, if they don't get developped.

That win in the League, if it's not the result of a process, of a developpement, means nothing and wouldn't be all that enjoyable to me. Seeing Gible master Draco Meteor or Infernape master Blaze, those two wins meant something, they made me feel happy for the pokémon. Otherwise, there's no reason for that win, no actual purpose to it, no flavour.