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  1. #61
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiplet View Post

    Dawn had a huge fanbase in Japan, and Piplup had too. As the matter of fact, Piplup's fanbase might be one of the biggest one ever in the whole franchise, and once they had their cameo in BW2, the ratings went up in their first episode. Then, the ratings started going down again, quickly, only giving the animé a slight boost. How is that going to help overall? It doesn't matter if the characters stay for a long time or not, it's only the first two or three episodes with the character' cameo that really boosts the animé's ratings. And at least Dawn, most kids recognized as they all were used to her.
    I presume you have proof to back up such claims?
    Older companions can help to boost up ratings, but if writing is bad with other characters and story being treated poorly that hype can't last for long since it doesn't have predisposition met to follow upon.
    Return of older character doesn't only attract more viewers toward it, but also maintain interest from small kids. Something what return of previous companions fulfills by bringing doze of fresh air and unpredictability, inciting desire among young viewers to see with what else writers are able to come up.

    As far as older viewers go, since boost in ratings is made of watchers which are only willing to follow this show when older characters return, if you want to achieve long lasting effect only way for this to happen is in bringing character for long period of time.

    Its no secret that anime is in decline with each passing saga having lower ratings than its predecessor being caused; from both lower interest and unpopular moves from writer side.

    Return of all time favorites with more attention being payed to past, would if anything help to restore some of popularity and following anime had before.

    Comparing really is kinda weird from your side. Those characters that you just brought up all had very minor roles in the animé, and barely affected it all as they appeared really occasionally, and didn't travel with the group like May did. Of course are those much easier to bring back, because the kids don't really need to have a clear picture on who they are. The same goes for the flashback with Butterfree, which also had no whatsoever influence on the animé. The Pikachu evolution has though, that's why it got so much focus in the episode Pikachi and Ash were battling that kid with his Raichu, because the writers wanted to tell the kids why Pikachu never evolved.
    This is where your wrong. How important this characters were to overall plot is irrelevant, because it doesn't change fact how new kids had no idea about them with unexpected return not reflecting negatively on anime at all. Same applies to older major characters. There were kids which started following with Hoenn or DP not knowing who May or Misty are, but as we can see their comebacks were widely accepted sparking young viewers interest for characters wanting to find out who they were. With increase of young fans of such characters being direct proof how new generations watched older series, to better comprehend Ash past and relevance this characters had to anime at some point.

    Example you brought with Pikachu only further supports my argument of kids unfamiliarity with someone not posing any issue for writers, being easy for them to explain who they were and from where importance comes if its decided to use past companion or in this case plot again.

    If anything bringing someone like May, Misty or Brock is easier to accomplish than bringing random characters which were always minor, because:
    -there already exist history/background behind them with writing staff having guidelines to follow and point where they stopped and from which they can pick upon.In other words they can because of that form credible follow up and storyline which would justify their return and make them fit withing plot again , unlike its case with Jessibelle, Jasmine or Butch and Cassidy who don't have enough stamina and story behind them to prevent return making seem completely random and out of place.
    Which is 10 times more confusing for young followers.

    -they provide stronger connection to past imbuing anime with more continuity, with return being more justified in eyes of younger viewers than minor characters are. Since importance in past and role they played in their respective sagas gives them stronger reason to return, because of connection with Ash character and impact they left on him.

    -pros they can bring to anime out weight the cons, with return bringing potential to earn more money than it was spend on their revival.Something minor characters like say Magikarp salesman cannot accomplish.


    It's a yes-and-no situation here.
    Because of all reasons provided above, situation is leaning more toward yes than no.

    The kids only have Pokémon Smash in Japan, which air only once a week. In the US, or in other places as well, kids get several episodes each day, but it's the kids in Japan that naturally are the main focus.
    Meaning how today generations have opportunity to find out about older generations and characters. So argument how kids don't know isn't very valid.

    Not really. Why else is the writers always changing protagonists? I'm pretty sure that they know what they're doing better than you. Wanna take that discussion with them, maybe?
    Logical fallacy, with argument being based on authority. People in charge who make decisions, doesn't mean they will make right decision.

    Reason why writers change main characters is for two reasons: for advertizing and to bring new meat to younger generations("eye candy") to try out new designs Sugimori comes up with, as directly confirmed in interview with ex pokemon director Masamitsu Hidaka.

    Whether anime will remain popular or not among viewers depends on quality of writing behind it, not on cast itself. One Piece, Naruto, Ben 10 and many more keep same cast for years with popularity still going strong.

    As I said earlier, people would maybe watch the first few episodes, but it wouldn't take long before the ratings would start going back down again, like what happened with Dawn and Piplup. You do not honestly think that the ratings always will be up once the older characters have had their cameos? That's not it.
    It depends on popularity of character and quality of writing which surrounds certain saga if hype and excitement they brought will leave longer impact on series or not. Misty and May cameos brought many fans back with increase of ratings reflecting directly how well their return was received.

    Granted after they left some fans quit series again coming only because of them, but in long run hype and impact their comebacks created contributed to ratings staying strong even after they left anime again creating hope and positive environment how writers might continue to do unexpected and well written surprises.
    In nutshell older companions serve as extra igniter and motivation for viewers to maintain interest toward anime.

    Its enough to go back and check viewing figures when Misty appeared. Ratings sky rocketed.

    Well, since you won't explain, your argument will remain invaild from my point of view, since I really don't see how the writers would develop in further.
    I believe i already explained in several posts before in what way expansion of world tournament could be made, giving Ash alternate quest to do like BF provided while also creating opportunity to inject older characters into story advancing it forward with their own participation.

    So i don't really feel need to repeat everything again.

    They are like trees in the new games. The opportunites they bring forth are extremely small, and until we actually get a confirmation that their will be a continuation of the World Cup, I'll ignore this as its highly unlikely from my view. You can continue gobbling abou it, but I probably won't read until we actually have a confirmation. It's all rubbish in my ears as of now.
    Opportunities older character brings:
    -increase in ratings and more money
    -freshness and unexpected twists which bring life to current anime, making people more excited and interested toward show
    -increase of continuity giving younger viewers opportunity to better understand Ash background as trainer and capture their interest for such characters
    -adverting value their existence in new games provide, leading toward possible increase of sales if viewers outside target demographic are attracted toward anime, again
    -chance to contribute current story with their presence playing important role, while being developed more themselves,
    -to give update to older fans, make interaction between characters more interesting and provide stability within anime

    Lastly presence of World Cup isn't needed to bring any of this characters back, since they can return for any other reason still helping to promote current games because of presence and association they bring to them.

    I sincerely doubt so. It'd seem odd to me if the writers would want to bring them back now with BW2 being ''old news'' in Japan by now.
    Right now it makes most sense, because they can aside from receiving more development and contributing to current story actually advertize new games because of marketing value they have and cognition how they are part of something big in games.

    Also as far as BW2 go, logic implies they could continue their promotion since there is nothing else on table for writers to work with before 6th gen comes out. So far they covered very little from BW2 and its features.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 15th October 2012 at 07:48 AM.

  2. #62
    aka the fireflies guy Vanillish Twilight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    I stopped watching around half way through Pokémon Advanced Battle and I have seen only a few episodes of the newer ones like Battle Frontier and the ones with Dawn in them and zero BW episodes but I know that Richie and Misty haven't been seen for a long time and I wish they would come back.
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  3. #63
    Back From The Grave Charbok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    If anyone needs to make another appearance, it's Steven Stone. They just screwed him over in the anime. It's like the writers didn't know that he was the Champion in the RS games and they just threw him in as if he were some unknown character of the day.

    Besides that, I'd be happy if they just had the past characters make cameos in the openings, like with High Touch. At least Tracey got a cameo in the newest BW opening. Maybe in another opening we can get cameos of Brock, Misty, May, Max, Dawn, Gary, etc. They did it in the past so why not do it again?
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    Quote Originally Posted by Gengarzilla View Post
    I'm actually hoping that older characters don't return during BW, considering how much that series screwed Dawn over...
    I agree. Maybe it would be best for reappearances after Ash's get the hell out of Unova or someone on the writing staff decides to bring back Sinnoh style creativity.
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    I do believe most of the whiners on forums should remember Misty has been gone for 6-7 years now, and May has been gone for almost as long. MOst of the target audience has never seen any episodes of those 2 and could care less. Just like many people here who "stopped after johto", or "could not stand the new VAs" etc who use that they denigrate Sinnoh ad Unova while openly admtting they havent seen any of the new episodes beore saying misty should come back. Besides no one watches pokemon only for the girl. You might have seen all the new episodes and still want misty to return for good, most likely resulting in cerulan gym being closed down and the Kanto region being deprived of a decent gym leader. That's good for you. Pokemon is like Zelda in that while the protagonist is technically the same, they try to make each new series new andrefreshing hence the extremely limited continuity between the series. And there are no "Navi should come back complaints on the LOD boards"
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    I do believe most of the whiners on forums should remember Misty has been gone for 6-7 years now, and May has been gone for almost as long. MOst of the target audience has never seen any episodes of those 2 and could care less. Just like many people here who "stopped after johto", or "could not stand the new VAs" etc who use that they denigrate Sinnoh ad Unova while openly admtting they havent seen any of the new episodes beore saying misty should come back. Besides no one watches pokemon only for the girl. You might have seen all the new episodes and still want misty to return for good, most likely resulting in cerulan gym being closed down and the Kanto region being deprived of a decent gym leader. That's good for you. Pokemon is like Zelda in that while the protagonist is technically the same, they try to make each new series new andrefreshing hence the extremely limited continuity between the series. And there are no "Navi should come back complaints on the LOD boards"
    first maybe there isn't a complaint for navi's return because idk SHE IS ANNOING, anyway i know the kids in japan don't know shit about the other main characthers but still as i see it right now it wouldn't hurt if pokemon return to its roots again, i actually think at least they could explain the past characthers and then return them like for example in the prof. oak section or remaking the pokemon cronicles, and yes im in the percentace that wants may back and even misty (even if i couldn't care less about here) but still i think i they return at least they should explain them, anyway the older fanbase deserves it i mean they left parts of there storyline unfinish like may and the johto contest and more recently dawn and the wallace cup(but to a lesser level) and also as a mindfuck for me in the opening they put TRACEY in the opening so at least i expect a opening/ending song with them making a cameo at least
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  7. #67
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    I do believe most of the whiners on forums should remember Misty has been gone for 6-7 years now,
    I know you're referring to her cameos, but it really does make you realize that this year is the 10th anniversary of Misty's departure from the anime. More specifically it will be in November 2002, as that's the month "Gotta Catch Ya Later" aired in Japan.

    It's hard to believe its been 10 years since Misty left, yet some people act as if she was in most of the series or even half the series. She may have been in slightly more episodes than the other female protagonists, but it makes no difference when you also realize Brock was in the anime for literally double the amount of time she was, at about 400 episodes more.

    So for this reason I agree, I don't think we'll see many old cameos anymore. Dawn's token cameo arc was expected, and many believe she will no longer appear again for the rest of the anime either. The real question is Brock, who could go either way at this point in terms of cameo.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    I don't know about you, but I would die from fangirling if the King of Pokelantis returned for REVENGE. He's personally my favorite CotD.



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  9. #69
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    Regarding claims how "Misty has no chance to be seen ever again":
    Here are my thoughts:
    Will Misty return? It depends on writers really and no matter how much someone repeat "no she wont" its in end their call. Misty was original female companion, she was there when anime just started rolling around, being part of most popular main group which made pokemon recognized and popular worldwide in first place. Because of that fact alone and her iconic status she will always come in consideration to return with every existing show eventually sooner or later giving recognition to first cast bringing back original characters. I doubt pokemon will be exception and break practice which other anime do.

    Because of popularity, untapped potential and impact she left on anime if writers ever decided to make past female important again and return for some important role, Misty will always be first on the list regardless of some will say,
    There is no reason why writers wouldn't bring her back in BW2 and capitalize on character popularity. Fact that Nintendo and Gamefreak are over the years making sure to keep Kanto gym leaders relevant finding ways to introduce them in new games is proof in itself how producers don't want that first generation ends up forgotten, and since we all know how much anime likes to promote games Misty has very viable chance to be used if there are more tournaments made representing World tournament.

    Not being in anime for long time means absolutely nothing, because if writers can make decade old characters like Giovanni, Jasmine, Gary etc relevant again they surely can bring back Misty too. Infact one of reasons why we didn't seen her for very long time could also be because of writers saving her return for something special where comeback would hold significance to it and help move storyline, instead of wasting it on random fillers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Besides no one watches pokemon only for the girl.
    You would be surprised how many people watch this show for specific characters. Take out TR or Ash permanently from anime and i can guarantee you anime will lose many viewers. When people grow attached to certain character tending to enjoy in anime more when he is around, when you take out one of key parts why they liked show is when that same show starts to lose to them purpose.

    You might have seen all the new episodes and still want misty to return for good, most likely resulting in cerulan gym being closed down and the Kanto region being deprived of a decent gym leader. That's good for you.
    I hope you realize how issue with gym could be easily solved, if writers decide to do more with Misty character. Such as making one of her sisters enough competent to act as decent substitute(out of three Daisy is most promising candidate), open new subplot by introducing one of past unknown relatives like they did with Brock mother etc.

    Gym in no way ties Misty to Cerulean, that she has to be there forever. We all know she has adventurous spirit wanting to become strongest one type trainer, so there is nothing wrong if she goes on travels like many other gym leaders in past did to enrich her knowledge, learn new things and develop her own battling style making step forward toward ultimate aim.
    Her story was left unfinished never becoming water master, so there certainly exist potential to do more.

    Pokemon is like Zelda in that while the protagonist is technically the same, they try to make each new series new andrefreshing hence the extremely limited continuity between the series. And there are no "Navi should come back complaints on the LOD boards"
    There are plenty anime which keep same cast for years without losing their appeal among fans, staying fresh. You can refresh older characters through new designs, pokemon, subplots and actually do sequel/build up to already established storyline bringing new angle to it. Which means more continuity, better developed character and stable cast which goes through deeper growth.

    Something which would be more appreciated among fans than endless character replacing which brings nothing new aside from face in reality, being pointless to invest in them anyway when we already know they'll leave in 3, 4 years unfinished never to be seen again.

    Interview with Masamitsu Hidaka clearly explained what is main motivation behind writing staff cycling through characters. And you could say advertizing, but that's not exactly main reason if Brock was anything to go by.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 16th October 2012 at 01:38 AM.
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  10. #70
    Registered User zvinko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    I don't understand why they won't bring misty and brock back, even just for one episode in bw series.She'd probably catch Swanna or Frillish lol..
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    Quote Originally Posted by zvinko View Post
    I don't understand why they won't bring misty and brock back, even just for one episode in bw series.She'd probably catch Swanna or Frillish lol..
    I think brock has much more of a chance of having a cameo in best wishes considering that he left more recently.

    Although in terms of other charters, I mean if people we have'nt seen in years especially COtds and old gym leaders can make a appearance in the anime, then some of the mains can too.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    I certainly agree that old characters should return to the animé. I know Drayden's shown up recently, but what about Professor Oak? And if we're talking about old people outside of Unova, why don't we have Agatha, Bertha, Galatia, Drake, Pryce, or Wattson show up? They all appear to be senior citizens to me. Or how about elderly Pokémon besides legendaries? Have we had any Ninetails or Wartortle appear recently? Never mind Misty or Brock or Tracey, bring on the old people!

    In all seriousness, pretty much the only way now that Misty or anyone else older than Brock is through the PWT. And since apparently Dawn's most recent performance was taken from a fanfic, perhaps it's for the better that any retired characters appear in the show.
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  13. #73
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    Quote Originally Posted by ♥Lady Marie♥ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zvinko View Post
    I don't understand why they won't bring misty and brock back, even just for one episode in bw series.She'd probably catch Swanna or Frillish lol..
    I think brock has much more of a chance of having a cameo in best wishes considering that he left more recently.
    I don't know about that. The league is on it's way and I don't think they'll be in Unova too long for Brock to do a cameo only to just leave. They could have done his cameo in Nimbasa or some city in the middle of the region, not now.
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  14. #74
    Princess of Sinnoh martianmister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    I would welcome all cameos of old characters. But Giselle would be my number one choice.
    Last edited by martianmister; 20th October 2012 at 07:28 PM.
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    1. Satoshi/Ash Ketchum: 801 episodes
    2. Team Rocket: 736 episodes
    3. Takeshi/Brock: 633 episodes
    4. Kasumi/Misty: 282 episodes
    5. Hikari/Dawn: 201 episodes
    6. Haruka/May: 197 episodes
    7. Masato/Max: 192 episodes
    8. Iris: 141 episodes
    9. Dent/Cilan: 138 episodes
    10. Kenji/Tracey: 44 episodes

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    Default Re: Old Characters Need To Return

    The problem is at the end of the day the Pokemon franchise is just a business to Nintendo and Game Freak. They don't want to be creative and actually develop current characters or make the fans happy by keeping the cast that most people like, they just want to make money the easiest way which is keeping the games and anime in sync. If the games where more like the anime and you had two companions with you at all times then I could understand having them in sync but the fact is they aren't so we keep losing good and interesting characters from the anime just to help market the newest game.

    If they brought back Misty or May then the older fans such as myself would be happy and the new fans wouldn't really care because unless they have watched old episodes online, Misty would be a new character to them! I felt like by the end of the Sinnoh league they had built Ash up to be a more wise and mature trainer yet in Best Wishes they have just made him seem like some noob kid again. If the writers really wanted to be creative they could have actually kept Brock and Dawn around and maybe focus on them for a while and have Ash be in the background for a while, if the series was focused on developing three characters not just one it would mean they have a lot more opportunities to broaden and develop the story which would make thier job easier AND make many fans happy!!

    Sorry If i went a bit of point when comparing to the games.
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