I miss Casey. I loved that crazy kid. Her loyalty to her team reminded me of my own. I also really liked Duplica, because Ditto, obviously.
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I miss Casey. I loved that crazy kid. Her loyalty to her team reminded me of my own. I also really liked Duplica, because Ditto, obviously.
I doubt it would happen but it would be interesting if they did a season or two where Ash could travel with old companions and see if they actually get a good response from it, if they do then they know what the fans prefer.
Why do you think that? Brock stayed for a very, very long time and people seemed to be quite bored with his presence, especially during DP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlee13
Considering not even for a single episode or special has the original trio ever been reunited, I don't see it ever happening. Whenever Misty appeared in AG, May and Max were always there, so we never actually saw a real original trio reunion of only Ash/Misty/Brock alone.
Considering the last time we actually saw the original trio was 2002, which was now an entire decade ago (hard to believe but true), its obvious if they ever had an intention to go back to it, it would have surely happened by now. The mere fact that the Contests are actually gone now, and the writers didn't chose the next female protagonist like they did with May and Dawn, but they still chose to introduce a new girl who is similar to Misty in role and personality (Iris), instead of actually using Misty herself, says enough in itself.
Also keep in mind all the little kids who grew up watching the anime from 2002 till now...which is long after the original series ended, thus they won't have any nostalgia for older characters even if they do see the older eps later on.
It's obviousQuote:
Originally Posted by Dlee13
Fans of said character would love it.
People who wanted someone else in their place would not like it.
The target demographic, ie 10 year old kids who actuallywastespends money on plushies wont care, they'll love the new gen chars as much if not more than the old.
Guess who the writers care about the most?
I want May back so Ash can have a buddy can eat with on a date
Logical reason for their return is for marketing and continuity purposes, to help advance current storyline, give update to fans and develop them more, tie up lose ends in their stories, bring boost to ratings by attracting more older fans toward it, to shake things up and add twist to series maintaining viwers interest with unexpected surprises etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiplet
As we can see there are many reasons to bring previous character back.
That's irrelevant. Small kids didn't knew who Gary, Jessibelle, Butch and Cassidy and many other older characters were and writers had no problems in bringing them back. Small kids who started watching in DP or BW had no idea about older sagas either, yet it didn't stopped writers from giving throwbacks to older characters or pokemon, such as Ash Butterfree or Pikachu refusing to evolve through flashbacks. Kids which don't know who Misty, May, Max etc are would accept them as any new character with all possible confusing details being possible to resolve in reintroduction episode.Quote:
The audience is changing, therefore, the animé is also changing. Lots of children watching don't even know who May, Misty or Max are. They're just used to Dawn, Brock, Iris and Dento, because they weren't watching when they were around. Bringing up such old characters would confuse them, because it's not like 6-8 year olds bothers going to internet y'know, and that's also a reason to why the writers won't air the Team Plasma two-parter. It'll cause confusion.
New generations not knowing who they are may be is even more of a reason to bring them back. Because it would give them opportunity to get know who they were, better comprehend Ash past and add more continuity into it.
Whether character will return or not doesn't depend on how familiar current generations are with them, but on his compatibility with current plot and if writers have motivation to use him again at some point.
And once again: today generations have much wider specter of opportunities to find out about older companions than we did back in day. Such as reruns on several TV stations like Boomerang, Cartoon Network or Pokemon Smash. Older relatives from who they could heard and DVDs. Anime conventions and yes even internet, because today kids use internet.
Majority of writers who write current show are same ones from 15 years ago.Quote:
But the writers are also changing, y'know. Besides, bring back old characters is a huge risk. If they don't succeed in entertainig the old fans, they'll only lose lots of fans.
And risk your talking about doesn't hold any ground whatsoever. Bringing back older companions is no bigger risk than introducing new ones about who viewers don't know nothing about, being uncertain if they will be accepted well or not. Past return of older characters were always accepted well among new generations and older fandom, with most people welcoming their return. Therefore argument how such move would "turn away fans" is invalid.
If there is one thing which turns away older fans from anime is reluctance to bring back older characters, igniting disrespect and disappointment among fandom because of erasing past major characters from face of existence with continuity being almost non-existent.
Judging by demand there exists for May, Brock and especially Misty return with many people who aren't even following anime anymore being willing to go back if their favorites return indicates opposite. Which is increase in pokemon rating with more people outside of target demographic being attracted toward it.
This isn't place to talk about fan fiction. Im dealing only with facts, and logic indicates how in case of expansion of World tournament, there would be provided more challenging cups after Junior event such as Senior, Champion etc tournament. Which would compensate for lack of quest for Ash to do in filler arcs along with opening gateway for return of previous characters since they are held on global scale.Quote:
What are your plans for this world tournament? Is Ash going to participate? I just want to hear what you have planned.
I suggest that you reread my post again. I didn't said how Misty is relevant to anime anymore, with same applying to Brock after he left. But fact that they are again in new games and its plot opens opportunity to make them relevant again to pokemon series in case of return.Quote:
When did OS end in Japan now again? I mean, you said ''relevant''.
Yet it happened around time when formula of anime was completely different, with writers sticking less to games. Fact how they didn't repeated such thing since 1999. following games much closer nowadays with more attention being payed to advertizing, serves as pretty good indication how expansion of world cup is more likely to happen than completely anime exclusive quest.Quote:
What about the Orange League? Wasn't that an animé thing only? In that case, why wouldn't the writers be able to do the same thing here?
But ok let say they do Orange Islands type of arc again. Since its not based on promotion of new games increase return of older characters even more, because how much marketing value someone has isn't anymore requirement in bringing him back either. Filler arcs usually pay more attention to past sagas, older pokemon and characters than main sagas do if OI and Battle Frontier were anything to go by, with advertizing of new games not being so much in first plan.
Ignoring above sentence, my views aren't nus product of like or dislike toward certain characters. Im only looking at things objectively taking in account advertizing , popularity, potential character has and whether he can become relevant to current storyline or not. And right now out of all past characters, Misty and Brock have biggest chance to return.Quote:
That's because you're not a writer, but just a huge fan of an old character that you desperately want to see again.
Im interested to hear on what you based said user was referring to reunion of original trio?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
Not that i have problem with that at all.
He suggested reuse of older characters which would be intelligent and innovative way to inject breath of fresh air in show which already suffers from stale, repetitive formula.
Its bad move to let all those potential go to waste, because it would be far more interesting if writers instead of erasing them never to be seen again, decided to reuse older characters at some point. Actually doing continuation of their story becoming relevant again, when plot would allow to have character both advance current story and receiving some benefit out of it himself too.
That way we would still get new characters ,but fans would also be given opportunity to see their favorite from past in action again updated.
It would make anime more continuity based, attract more older fans toward it, bring new twist to story and spice things up.
You should watch shows which replace characters, but actually keep older ones relevant bringing them if needed back to cast to help move plots forward. They enjoy bigger popularity than pokemon with its approach does suffering from lack of stable and continuity based story.
This would also provide chance to see if new generations would grew to like past characters like we did, and appreciate what they brought to table.
As far as reuniting of original trio goes if it was ever supposed to happen, it would be in last season of pokemon series. Not in DP, BW or any saga prior to that.
Original trio proven to be successful and extremely popular to this day, starting pokemon series and ending as most iconic group in this show. So i wouldn't completely rule out possibility of getting them reunited for last season with demand for it being huge among fans. It would also nicely fulfill purpose of things coming to full circle, emphasizing better on show going back to its roots if they decide to end it in such way.
Most people are open minded not picking on who is going to return. Way i see it they would gain more than lose with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by pokemonsquared
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fighting MistyWhy do you think that? Brock stayed for a very, very long time and people seemed to be quite bored with his presence, especially during DP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlee13
Considering not even for a single episode or special has the original trio ever been reunited, I don't see it ever happening. Whenever Misty appeared in AG, May and Max were always there, so we never actually saw a real original trio reunion of only Ash/Misty/Brock alone.
Considering the last time we actually saw the original trio was 2002, which was now an entire decade ago (hard to believe but true), its obvious if they ever had an intention to go back to it, it would have surely happened by now. The mere fact that the Contests are actually gone now, and the writers didn't chose the next female protagonist like they did with May and Dawn, but they still chose to introduce a new girl who is similar to Misty in role and personality (Iris), instead of actually using Misty herself, says enough in itself.
Also keep in mind all the little kids who grew up watching the anime from 2002 till now...which is long after the original series ended, thus they won't have any nostalgia for older characters even if they do see the older eps later on.
I just think that since many shows are successful with the same characters year after year there was no reason Pokemon had to see it differently, I personally feel like the writers where lazy to further develop old characters and just introduce new characters that are weak versions of old ones! That's just my opinion though which may very well be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by pokemonsquaredIt's obviousQuote:
Originally Posted by Dlee13
Fans of said character would love it.
People who wanted someone else in their place would not like it.
The target demographic, ie 10 year old kids who actuallywastespends money on plushies wont care, they'll love the new gen chars as much if not more than the old.
Guess who the writers care about the most?
The sad thing is when looking around on these forums I notice a good majority of the fans who interact on here are much older than 10 years old yet Pokemon is classified as something for kids! I'm 24 and I know there's a large fan base of older people so if they where willing to take that risk of using old characters it would make a large majority happy, and after all not everyone can be pleased.
Well, I am 14, and had to go on video streaming sites and bit-torrent to see Original Series and Orange Islands. I really liked those series, and I'd be more than happy to see AT LEAST a cameo of each character in the Best Wishes series. Perhaps when Ash returns to Professor Oak and Delia when he loses the pokemon league, (he got hit pretty hard with the idiot ray in Best Wishes, he's gonna lose either to another Tobihax or another Ritchie) All of ash's former friends, make a brief cameo of a suprise party, like in "Home is where the start is" and stuff. Idk, I really think they should have Gary and Tracey appear AT LEAST IN CAMEO! Who else would be watching Oak's lab in Kanto?
I like your answer. Going online to watch the old shows and watch old characters is better than bringing them back especially at a bad writing time like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Miss Eevee
Agreed, i never understood people desire to constantly see character being cycled like they are on assembly line replacing them in half of development eventually fading away never to be seen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlee13
Its rather pointless constantly introducing new characters while older ones still have lot of potential to develop them more and offer new things on table.Actually it makes contra effect because it gets rid of characters at such speed that it completely stops any chance of companions being progressed to such degree, which would allow more significant growth and addition of more layers and dimension to them becoming elevated and actually deep.
Character rotation is best and most fair compromise imo. We would still get new characters, but at same time all time favorites to who people grew attached liking them would be kept relevant doing new things, being interesting to see mix of old and new and what kind of dynamic this would bring to cast. That way people could see their favorites doing new, exciting things growing much more and to deeper level, than its case with new characters which are just starting out(in most cases as beginners).
Motivation behind this would be in injecting new and unpredictable twist to pokemon series, to maintain people interest and to reach beyond current audience attracting more older fans toward it.
More viewers means more customers, better ratings and in end more money.
I would like to see all past characters return, but right now i would like to see Misty return the most. Since we haven't seen her for ridiculously long period of time not appearing since 2005. She is great character, i miss her personality which always brought life to cast and it would be welcomed to see her updated finding out how much she changed and improved as trainer, what new pokemon she acquired in mean time and if she made progress toward water master goal. I doubt she stayed for all this time only at gym either, probably doing solo journeys to get new pokemon and improve skills which could help her in future career in becoming best water trainer.
Battle would be strongly welcomed too, and with all connections she has with Iris meeting between them would make lot of sense and guarantee great dynamic.
If she goes to BW2 filler arc to travel and compete in world competitions like her game counterpart does to advance her water master dream and develop more would only increase her chances, and theoretically she could even join cast as fourth companion for filler arc in that case. Considering how new games offers outlets and benchmarks which would both allow for character to remain relevant advancing its own and current plot, having things to do.
Oak, Delia, Tracey and Mimey have the best chance. Heck, 3 out 4 of them appeared in the BW 2 theme song.
Misty is the character I would most like to see back as well, for me Brock was like a safety net of sorts because I knew the female character would change but Brock was that constant familiar face!In Johto Misty seemed to be more enthusiastic about reaching her goal of Water Pokemon master then not long after she is been taken off the show to be a full time gym leader which seemed stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132Agreed, i never understood people desire to constantly see character being cycled like they are on assembly line replacing them in half of development eventually fading away never to be seen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlee13
Its rather pointless constantly introducing new characters while older ones still have lot of potential to develop them more and offer new things on table.Actually it makes contra effect because it gets rid of characters at such speed that it completely stops any chance of companions being progressed to such degree, which would allow more significant growth and addition of more layers and dimension to them becoming elevated and actually deep.
Character rotation is best and most fair compromise imo. We would still get new characters, but at same time all time favorites to who people grew attached liking them would be kept relevant doing new things, being interesting to see mix of old and new and what kind of dynamic this would bring to cast. That way people could see their favorites doing new, exciting things growing much more and to deeper level, than its case with new characters which are just starting out(in most cases as beginners).
Motivation behind this would be in injecting new and unpredictable twist to pokemon series, to maintain people interest and to reach beyond current audience attracting more older fans toward it.
More viewers means more customers, better ratings and in end more money.
I would like to see all past characters return, but right now i would like to see Misty return the most. Since we haven’t seen her for ridiculously long period of time not appearing since 2005. She is great character, i miss her personality which always brought life to cast and it would be welcomed to see her updated finding out how much she changed and improved as trainer, what new pokemon she acquired in mean time and if she made progress toward water master goal. I doubt she stayed for all this time only at gym either, probably doing solo journeys to get new pokemon and improve skills which could help her in future career in becoming best water trainer.
Battle would be strongly welcomed too, and with all connections she has with Iris meeting between them would make lot of sense and guarantee great dynamic.
If she goes to BW2 filler arc to travel and compete in world competitions like her game counterpart does to advance her water master dream and develop more would only increase her chances, and theoretically she could even join cast as fourth companion for filler arc in that case. Considering how new games offers outlets and benchmarks which would both allow for character to remain relevant advancing its own and current plot, having things to do.
I find it funny how they change characters in the anime just to suit the games and help promote them yet they don’t really develop the games to make them more like the anime! I may very well be wrong but I see Nintendo as a company that likes to play it safe with most of their ventures which is why I think when we get a ‘fresh start’ like best wishes it feels more like poorly recycled material more than a brave new concept that capitalizes on old material.
Even though Misty was my favorite female companion I always find myself wondering how May is doing with her contests, how close Max is to being able to start his journey and how Dawn is doing with Piplup or Kenny. In Jirachi Wish Maker Ash told Max he had a friend that he missed greatly and thought about every day (which has to be Misty) so if the writers could drop something like that then they should be able to write Misty back in.
In nearly every region you always find there's a gym leader who spends more time travelling than they do giving out badges and with 3 sisters to take her place there's no reason Misty can't travel with Ash to once again challenger herself and build her knowledge of water Pokemon. I'm only up to about e30 of Rival Destinies so I'm looking forward to seeing Dawn again but what happens after Ash's journey in Unova is done is what interests me most!
I'm actually hoping that older characters don't return during BW, considering how much that series screwed Dawn over...
I wish Kohei would make an appearance in Best Wishes.
Dawn had a huge fanbase in Japan, and Piplup had too. As the matter of fact, Piplup's fanbase might be one of the biggest one ever in the whole franchise, and once they had their cameo in BW2, the ratings went up in their first episode. Then, the ratings started going down again, quickly, only giving the animé a slight boost. How is that going to help overall? It doesn't matter if the characters stay for a long time or not, it's only the first two or three episodes with the character' cameo that really boosts the animé's ratings. And at least Dawn, most kids recognized as they all were used to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
Comparing really is kinda weird from your side. Those characters that you just brought up all had very minor roles in the animé, and barely affected it all as they appeared really occasionally, and didn't travel with the group like May did. Of course are those much easier to bring back, because the kids don't really need to have a clear picture on who they are. The same goes for the flashback with Butterfree, which also had no whatsoever influence on the animé. The Pikachu evolution has though, that's why it got so much focus in the episode Pikachi and Ash were battling that kid with his Raichu, because the writers wanted to tell the kids why Pikachu never evolved.Quote:
That's irrelevant. Small kids didn't knew who Gary, Jessibelle, Butch and Cassidy and many other older characters were and writers had no problems in bringing them back. Small kids who started watching in DP or BW had no idea about older sagas either, yet it didn't stopped writers from giving throwbacks to older characters or pokemon, such as Ash Butterfree or Pikachu refusing to evolve through flashbacks. Kids which don't know who Misty, May, Max etc are would accept them as any new character with all possible confusing details being possible to resolve in reintroduction episode.
It's a yes-and-no situation here.Quote:
Whether character will return or not doesn't depend on how familiar current generations are with them, but on his compatibility with current plot and if writers have motivation to use him again at some point.
The kids only have Pokémon Smash in Japan, which air only once a week. In the US, or in other places as well, kids get several episodes each day, but it's the kids in Japan that naturally are the main focus.Quote:
And once again: today generations have much wider specter of opportunities to find out about older companions than we did back in day. Such as reruns on several TV stations like Boomerang, Cartoon Network or Pokemon Smash. Older relatives from who they could heard and DVDs. Anime conventions and yes even internet, because today kids use internet.
Not really. Why else is the writers always changing protagonists? I'm pretty sure that they know what they're doing better than you. Wanna take that discussion with them, maybe?Quote:
Majority of writers who write current show are same ones from 15 years ago.
And risk your talking about doesn't hold any ground whatsoever. Bringing back older companions is no bigger risk than introducing new ones about who viewers don't know nothing about, being uncertain if they will be accepted well or not. Past return of older characters were always accepted well among new generations and older fandom, with most people welcoming their return. Therefore argument how such move would "turn away fans" is invalid.
As I said earlier, people would maybe watch the first few episodes, but it wouldn't take long before the ratings would start going back down again, like what happened with Dawn and Piplup. You do not honestly think that the ratings always will be up once the older characters have had their cameos? That's not it.Quote:
If there is one thing which turns away older fans from anime is reluctance to bring back older characters, igniting disrespect and disappointment among fandom because of erasing past major characters from face of existence with continuity being almost non-existent.
Judging by demand there exists for May, Brock and especially Misty return with many people who aren't even following anime anymore being willing to go back if their favorites return indicates opposite. Which is increase in pokemon rating with more people outside of target demographic being attracted toward it.
Well, since you won't explain, your argument will remain invaild from my point of view, since I really don't see how the writers would develop in further.Quote:
This isn't place to talk about fan fiction. Im dealing only with facts, and logic indicates how in case of expansion of World tournament, there would be provided more challenging cups after Junior event such as Senior, Champion etc tournament. Which would compensate for lack of quest for Ash to do in filler arcs along with opening gateway for return of previous characters since they are held on global scale.
They are like trees in the new games. The opportunites they bring forth are extremely small, and until we actually get a confirmation that their will be a continuation of the World Cup, I'll ignore this as its highly unlikely from my view. You can continue gobbling abou it, but I probably won't read until we actually have a confirmation. It's all rubbish in my ears as of now.Quote:
I suggest that you reread my post again. I didn't said how Misty is relevant to anime anymore, with same applying to Brock after he left. But fact that they are again in new games and its plot opens opportunity to make them relevant again to pokemon series in case of return.
I sincerely doubt so. It'd seem odd to me if the writers would want to bring them back now with BW2 being ''old news'' in Japan by now.Quote:
Ignoring above sentence, my views aren't nus product of like or dislike toward certain characters. Im only looking at things objectively taking in account advertizing , popularity, potential character has and whether he can become relevant to current storyline or not. And right now out of all past characters, Misty and Brock have biggest chance to return.
