Thread: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Genosect isn't a minor Pokemon, it is THE big Pokemon of the generation. I can't see it being set aside in favor of focusing on something else on top of it.

Yea, that's a really biased statement. Just because it was revealed last does that mean it's the most important? How about Arceus? It was revealed after the other legendaries but does that make it the most important of the entire generation? I don't really think so.

I really don't see why they wouldn't reveal a sixth generation Pokemon in this movie. Considering the faster pace of the BW anime and how they already have four fifth generation game in the main series out, I don't see why they would delay promoting the next generation of Pokemon through this movie. If there were a couple of other secret legendary Pokemon that hadn't been revealed yet, then I could see them getting maybe another year of promoting the fifth generation, but since Genesect is the last one, I don't see how they wouldn't start promoting the sixth generation. The only way I could see that working out would be if they did actually release R/S remakes to make the fifth generation last a bit longer. As cool as that sounds to me and I would like R/S remakes, I don't think that's likely to happen. I think that there is a much better chance that they'll start promoting the next generation and save those remakes for some time after the first two games come out.

As for Genesect being the biggest Pokemon of this generation, I don't really see that myself. It's the last of the secret legendary Pokemon, but I don't think it's important enough to make it the biggest Pokemon of the fifth generation. Besides, I could see them giving Genesect and the possible sixth generation Pokemon a fairly equal role, especially if the two are connected or Genesect is connected to the new games, so that one Pokemon wouldn't overshadow the other in the movie.

Gen VI Pokemon vs Genesect..

The event pattern and how it relates to the movies has ALREADY been broken. When BW released, they had a distro for the in game event, they didn't need to have a whole other movie for it, but they did, simply because they didn't program it to have V-Create. True, it was a forgone conclusion that they would follow the succession of events after that, but then they broke it again by doing two of them at once. I think past conventions have gone out the window and it is possible for them to do the final event for this gen AND reveal a new poke for the next one. Otherwise, what would the second promo be? (please don't answer that because I'm sick of generation extending theories) Even if this isn't the end, what then? We have filler for a year and a half or better in the anime? Your suggestions would not last that long, not even in the farthest stretch of the imagination. If you can compound upon your reasoning, I want to know, because that just seems flipping ridiculous to me, and a sign of poor planning on the writers' part. The indication would appear to be that this gen was intended to only last 3 years, just like the first and second did. Just because the 3rd and 4th were longer doesn't mean that they all have to be that long now. Please, tell me how this can be lengthened that much.

The majority of the fandom is certain that specific event-exclusive pokemon will appear in future films, but those pokemon are often never seen during the promotion of the next year's film after the credits for the current year's film. I'll cite timetables from the six most recent movies that support the revelation of a new pokemon other than Genesect for M16, which I have put in spoiler tags for those who don't want to read.

Darkrai, Dialga, and Palkia were never revealed after the credits of the Manaphy film. The original title of M10, which was released in July 2006, was just "Pokemon Diamond and Pearl." When the footage that featured Dialga and Palkia fighting each other aired that December, the title of the movie was changed to "Pokemon Diamond and Pearl: Dialga VS Palkia." When Darkrai was officially revealed in February 2007, the movie's title was modified once again to become "Pokemon Diamond and Pearl: Dialga VS Palkia VS Darkrai."

Shaymin and Giratina were also never revealed first. When news for M11 came out in July 2007, the scan only featured Regigigas' arm. We didn't get any information about Giratina's role in the film until that December, when the original movie title "Giratina and the Sky Bouquet" was revealed. Both Shaymin's Sky Forme and Giratina's Origin Forme were officially revealed in February 2008, alongside M11's full title. In this case, Shaymin and Giratina were the true stars of M11. Although it was revealed first, Regigigas' role in that movie was secondary.

Arceus was also never revealed first. After the Shaymin movie aired in Japan, a trailer that featured Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina fighting one another was released. Later in December 2008, we got news of the Notched-Ear Pichu and a tenative title of M12 as "Pokemon Diamond and Pearl: Overcome the Time Space." It wasn't until that next February that Arceus was officially revealed by Game Freak, and both it and Heatran were also going to be in the film.

Zorua and Zoroark, the true stars of M13, were also never revealed first. After the Arceus movie aired in Japan, there was a trailer featuring Ho-Oh and Lugia fighting in the skies. Both of those pokemon never appeared in M13. In December 2009, we got news that Celebi and the three legendary beasts would be in M13. The title of that movie was leaked as "Pokemon Diamond and Pearl: Phantom Lord 'Z'." Again, it wasn't until that next February that Zorua and Zoroark were officially revealed, and the movie title changed to include Zoroark's name.

Victini is the most notable exception to this rule. Unlike the other event-exclusive pokemon thus far, Victini was seen at the end of the credits of the then current year's film. However, keep in mind that the BW games were set to come out that September in Japan. Since Victini was an event-exclusive pokemon that gamers were able to obtain on Wi-Fi during the first month of those games' release, it was officially revealed relatively early compared to the other legendaries. Still, we had no knowledge of M14's title until that December, which came up as "Victini and the Black Hero." It wasn't until, yes, that next February that we found out that M14 was going to be split up into two separate films with two distinct titles. We also found out that Reshiram and Zekrom would appear in both versions. Reshiram, Zekrom, and Victini were all stars in that film, each receiving an equal amount of screentime, but only Victini was revealed after the end of the credits of the previous film, and it was for a reason unrelated to its role in M14.

Like most of the other event-exclusives, neither Keldeo nor Meloetta were revealed during the promotions of the previous film. We weren't notified of anything related to M15 until December 2011, when Cobalion/Terrakion/Virizion and Kyurem's base forme were revealed to be in the film. The tenative title "Kyurem VS the Sacred Swordsmen" was given. Both Keldeo and the full title of M15 were revealed in that next February's Coro Coro. Black and White Kyurem were officially revealed later that month during an episode of Pokemon Smash, with a small glimpse of Meloetta that simultaneously revealed would star in its own short. Meloetta's Pirouette and Aria formes were officially released in March 2012. Keldeo's Resoluton Forme was revealed later that June.

Why is Genesect revealed in the promotion for the next year's film? Could this mean that, like Victini, Genesect wasn't going to be the main star of the next movie. It probably means that a new pokemon related to Gen VI will be revealed next year.

Originally Posted by Piplup

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Originally Posted by Piplup

Well, it's very obvious now... July 2013 - a movie starring Genesect + gen 6 Poké, September 2013 - gen 6 is released
I see no reason to rush revealing Genesect unless they also plan to reveal sometime in early 2013 a gen 6 Poké which will star in the next movie together with Genesect

Why do you think Gen 6 will come next year when the main movie advertises an older legendary?

Movie 8: Mew, Regirock, Registeel, Regice and... LUCARIO (and guess what, only Mew was revealed at first, with Lucario being revealed later and added to the title)
Movie 9: Kyogre and... MANAPHY (and guess what, only Kyogre was revealed at first despite its minor role and it was only later that Manaphy was revealed and added to the title)
Movie 13: Celebi, Entei, Suicune, Raikou and... ZOROARK (and... yeah... you can guess it... Zoroark was revealed later and added to the title...)

If the movie wouldn't feature a gen 6 Poké they wouldn't reveal Genesect so soon
This implies that, at the usual time they typically reveal these kind of Poké (which would now be in early 2013) they plan to reveal something that would be more important than Genesect, so they're getting it out of the way earlier than it should be, to then focus on the gen 6 Poké that will star together with it (if not even shine above it as THE star of the movie) and will be our preview to the new gen that will come out two months after the movie, similarly to how Zoroark was used

also lugia in movie 2000

The difference is that Genosect is the last Pokemon of the generation intended to be the big event. Its not like a throwaway legendary they can just shoehorn into a movie like Heatran or Kyorge or Regigigas just for the hell of it.

Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Arceus all essentially were the stars...and the Pokemon they shared the spotlight with were from the same generation.

Not really surprising - I kinda expected that.

Though... are there any news of Team Plasma appearing as well? I mean, Genesect WAS created by a Team Plasma member anyways...

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

The difference is that Genosect is the last Pokemon of the generation intended to be the big event. Its not like a throwaway legendary they can just shoehorn into a movie like Heatran or Kyorge or Regigigas just for the hell of it.

Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Arceus all essentially were the stars...and the Pokemon they shared the spotlight with were from the same generation.

Those three examples weren't near the end of their respective generations though and it's pretty likely that we're nearing the end of the fifth generation. The pace for the anime series and releasing B2/W2 in the summer, rather than keeping the tradition for the games to come out in the fall most likely in order to have them released outside of Japan within the same year, makes it seem that we'll be entering the sixth generation next year. Like I mentioned before, the only other choice that I see at the moment would be if they actually did release the R/S remakes next instead of the sixth generation games. I don't think that would be impossible and I personally wouldn't mind it, but it doesn't look too likely. If that was the case, then they probably would have shown some Hoenn legendary Pokemon in the trailer instead and had Genesect be the surprise Pokemon revealed later, similar to what they did with the Lucario and I think the Manaphy movies. I don't think that they would announce Genesect first if there was an older generation Pokemon starring with it. Since they already announced Genesect through this trailer, it's pretty likely that they'll have a sixth generation Pokemon there with it. I don't see any other way given how they've already used the other legendary Pokemon and I don't see why they would wait until 2014 to start showing sixth generation Pokemon in a movie given the how they've handled this current generation.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

The difference is that Genosect is the last Pokemon of the generation intended to be the big event. Its not like a throwaway legendary they can just shoehorn into a movie like Heatran or Kyorge or Regigigas just for the hell of it.

Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Arceus all essentially were the stars...and the Pokemon they shared the spotlight with were from the same generation.

So obviously, after 15 movies, they're finally not going to mislead us with their movie preview right? We're finally going to get a promotion that's indicative of the next movie's events. Genesect is definitely going to be the star, because, after all, the movie preview wouldn't like about something this big. Because Genesect is clearly intended to be a big event even though in-game, Genesect has the least interesting event, even before they reworked Keldeo's. Obviously, its going to be a big thing, with Team Plasma being referenced as being involved with making it, and we all know how important Team Plasma is to the anime.

I honestly don't understand how you keep ignoring the fact that unlike Genesect, Deoxys and Mewtwo weren't revealed until after the initial title was shown. Genesect is shown in the preview, the most uninformative part of movie advertisements. Are you just not going to address this point because addressing it contradicts whatever point your trying to make?

Originally Posted by The Outrage

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

The difference is that Genosect is the last Pokemon of the generation intended to be the big event. Its not like a throwaway legendary they can just shoehorn into a movie like Heatran or Kyorge or Regigigas just for the hell of it.

Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Arceus all essentially were the stars...and the Pokemon they shared the spotlight with were from the same generation.

So obviously, after 15 movies, they're finally not going to mislead us with their movie preview right? We're finally going to get a promotion that's indicative of the next movie's events. Genesect is definitely going to be the star, because, after all, the movie preview wouldn't like about something this big. Because Genesect is clearly intended to be a big event even though in-game, Genesect has the least interesting event, even before they reworked Keldeo's. Obviously, its going to be a big thing, with Team Plasma being referenced as being involved with making it, and we all know how important Team Plasma is to the anime.

Again, why not? Were Mewtwo, Deoxys and Arceus not the stars of the movie?

Were Mew (co-stared with Mewtwo), Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy, etc. not the stars of their movie?

Event legends that you can't capture in the games are of course going to be given the biggest and best treatment. That's why I don't see Genosect being upstaged.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Again, why not? Were Mewtwo, Deoxys and Arceus not the stars of the movie?

Were Mew (co-stared with Mewtwo), Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy, etc. not the stars of their movie?

Event legends that you can't capture in the games are of course going to be given the biggest and best treatment. That's why I don't see Genosect being upstaged.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

I honestly don't understand how you keep ignoring the fact that unlike Genesect, Deoxys weren't revealed until after the initial title was shown. Genesect is shown in the preview, the most uninformative part of movie advertisements. Are you just not going to address this point because addressing it contradicts whatever point your trying to make?

And to add onto the list of things you don't address, you're saying Genesect is important because he's the last event legendary. Meloetta is the second last, which puts it in the same ranks as Manaphy and Darkrai in Gen IV, yet it debuts in a Pikachu short. Meloetta itself, gets better treatment in the games by having a Fes Mission added onto its event, whereas Genesect still gets nothing. Just because you say Genesect deserves a big event, does not make it true.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Again, why not? Were Mewtwo, Deoxys and Arceus not the stars of the movie?

Were Mew (co-stared with Mewtwo), Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy, etc. not the stars of their movie?

Event legends that you can't capture in the games are of course going to be given the biggest and best treatment. That's why I don't see Genosect being upstaged.

They could have Genesect and a sixth generation Pokemon having equal importance in the movie so neither one is upstaged. I still think that you're ignoring how the movies with Mewtwo, Deoxys and Arceus weren't set when their respective generations were close to an end. Not to mention Genesect was announced first through the trailer and I don't see why they would wait until 2014 to show a sixth generation Pokemon in a movie at this point. It would make the faster pace of the series and the release for B2/W2 seem unnecessary if a new generation wasn't on the horizon.

This movie probably isn't set at the end of this generation either. I very much doubt the 6th gen on the 3DS is hitting 2 months after this movie comes out.

If that were the case it would star all 6th gen legends or Pokemon to hype up the next game....much like Latios/Latias did for Hoenn, Manaphy did for DP, and Zoroark did for BW.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

This movie probably isn't set at the end of this generation either. I very much doubt the 6th gen on the 3DS is hitting 2 months after this movie comes out.

If that were the case it would star all 6th gen legends or Pokemon to hype up the next game....much like Latios/Latias did for Hoenn, Manaphy did for DP, and Zoroark did for BW.

You realize Kyogre was featured in the Manaphy movie, and the Legendary Beasts, as well as Celebi played a substantial role in Zoroark's? If it wasn't for Celebi, there wouldn't have even been a plot in Zoroark's movie.

So I guess we know the answer to the above question: "Are you just not going to address this point because addressing it contradicts whatever point your trying to make?"

Also, your argument right there, once again ignores what we all know happens in these movie promotions. It's baffling that you can be a member in this fandom for so long yet make the above claim that "if Gen V is ending, this movie would star all Gen VI Pokemon" when all we've seen is the preview for next year's movie, which, anyone can tell you, is the biggest load of crap the animators give us.