Thread: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha

I still don't believe Genesect would appear in the anime or movie; they made that trailer mostly to announce the distribution of the Pokemon to be available soon, and get it out of the way so that they can start gen 6 in early 2013.

Wait, you think gen 6 will actually start even sooner than September 2013 ? That's actually... interesting... I wonder now if there's any chance of them being a little unexpected (they did surprise us with Black2/White2 instead of Grey and releasing them in June) and release the new gen in early 2013 right after the anime finish the Unova League... it is a little hard to imagine what Ash will do in the 39 eps between Unova League to next gen, so maybe they won't really have to deal with this "problem", if the new gen is starting early on 2013
But I still think September 2013 is more likely and that in July 2013 Movie 16 will showcase Genesect but also a new gen 6 Poké which will be the true star

Thats...unexpected. Unfortunately, that brings up the matter that I'm unsure if this movie had the BW label. We won't know for another few days.

Originally Posted by Samurott

Thats...unexpected. Unfortunately, that brings up the matter that I'm unsure if this movie had the BW label. We won't know for another few days.

I expect they'll announce gen 6 at the TGS this year. That is were we know for sure when next gen is coming out.

I'd love it if somehow they release next gen in July 2013, which will probably be when the new Sailor Moon anime starts... new Poké+SM at the same time... OMG <3
But it's probably September, really... I'd be surprised if it's earlier than that... and if it is, then it'd probably be in January with the start of the new year and right after the end of the Unova League which is expected to be in December

It would be horrible if this gen ends next year. I almost feel like the entire saga is pointless then. Seriously what was the point?

Ash captured a lot of Pokemon but without any development they're going to wind up being his weakest developed team, even giving the Johto team a run for its money as the worst team. Iris and Cilan (especially Iris), haven't gotten that much development yet. And no giving Iris a Dragonite doesn't make up for it.

In terms of rivals? Trip has always been terrible anyway, but Bianca, Stephen, Georgia and Burungly haven't even reached their full potential.

Every saga has also progressed the anime's overall story, at least a tad, by showing Ash accompishing things he didn't in the previous arc. In BW he hasn't done anything amazing.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I don't see any reason to believe this gen will be rushed. The pacing of the anime doesn't seem right:

- We might have gone through the Gyms quickly, but Ash's BW team still feels mishandled and underdeveloped. I can't believe they would leave his team so lackluster like this if the gen is ending.

The pacing for the anime has been ridiculously fast, so I could see that as a sign that the generation is ending. I didn't really put that much stock into the fast pace until the releases for B2/W2 and Genesect being revealed, but it makes more sense given those other two events. As for Ash's team, I could honestly see the writers leaving his team so underdeveloped like they currently are. He's captured far too many Pokemon in this generation for even the majority of them to get satisfying development, especially when they've had a hard time doing that with even a full team of Pokemon, and he hasn't tried to develop his Pokemon into a strong team like in AG and DP.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- The total lack of villains. TR's arc has went nowhere and the lack of Plasma makes no sense.

Considering the lack of direction for Team Rocket, I'm not surprised that has gone nowhere and I could easily see it continue going nowhere. As for Team Plasma, I don't think that they're the new Porygon and I could see them appearing sometime in this season. Or at least I hope that they do, even though skipping pretty much all of their important appearances from the first B/W games would make that difficult.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- Lack of rival development.

Like Piplup mentioned, they'll probably try to resolve those rivalries in a rushed manner, regardless of whether or not they'll be satisfying.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- Iris and Cilan won't continue into next gen, (no matter how much people convince themselves they're the new Misty/Brock), and I don't feel like Iris' development is anywhere near done.

In my opinion, Iris doesn't have any development or at least any development that's actually believable. Either way, she definitely won't be included in the next generation. I think that Cilan could stick around, or at least he has a better chance than Iris does, but it depends if there's any characters in the early stages of the sixth generation that could fill his role of the group.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- If this is the case, we can assume Ash won't be able to bring back any old Pokemon seen in the opening simply because there's no time.

I never really thought that there was a chance Ash would use any of his older Pokemon from the opening. That would make the decision to give him more than six Pokemon even more questionable if he was going to use his older Pokemon. Besides that, I figured that those Pokemon were just there to hype up the return of older generation Pokemon to the anime. That's why I thought Primeape, Charizard and Squirtle were included with the Pokemon at Professor Oak's place, despite being in other location. And Gliscor could also be included in that regard since it was never clear where it went after the Sinnoh League.

Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha

I still don't believe Genesect would appear in the anime or movie; they made that trailer mostly to announce the distribution of the Pokemon to be available soon, and get it out of the way so that they can start gen 6 in early 2013.

I'm not sure if they could start the sixth generation in early 2013, but I could see Genesect not appearing in the anime or the movie as a possibility. Since the first trailers are misleading, can include Pokemon that don't appear in the final movie and Genesect distribution being revealed so soon, it could be that it was only included to tease the audience that the Pokemon could be available for the new B2/W2 games.

Originally Posted by Piplup

I'd love it if somehow they release next gen in July 2013, which will probably be when the new Sailor Moon anime starts... new Poké+SM at the same time... OMG <3
But it's probably September, really... I'd be surprised if it's earlier than that... and if it is, then it'd probably be in January with the start of the new year and right after the end of the Unova League which is expected to be in December

New Pokemon to go along with that new Sailor Moon series would be seriously awesome. I would love that too. Though, I'm not sure how likely that is to happen and I do think it's more likely that they'll keep it for the fall, but it does seem quite likely that a new generation, along with a new series, will come out sometime next year.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

It would be horrible if this gen ends next year. I almost feel like the entire saga is pointless then. Seriously what was the point?

Ash captured a lot of Pokemon but without any development they're going to wind up being his weakest developed team, even giving the Johto team a run for its money as the worst team. Iris and Cilan (especially Iris), haven't gotten that much development yet. And no giving Iris a Dragonite doesn't make up for it.

In terms of rivals? Trip has always been terrible anyway, but Bianca, Stephen, Georgia and Burungly haven't even reached their full potential.

Every saga has also progressed the anime's overall story, at least a tad, by showing Ash accompishing things he didn't in the previous arc. In BW he hasn't done anything amazing.

Ash caught too many Poké and barely developed any during the Kanto saga, which BW did try to mimic, so...
Gary wasn't THAT much of a developed character or anything, and AG went with Ash having no rivals... so it won't be the worst thing rivals-wise either...
Iris and Cilan may not really develope much, but same could be said about other sidekicks like Misty, Brock, Tracey and Max...
And yeah, we know BW had some regression for Ash, thanks for finally realizing it...
So no, you didn't prove anything with that post

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

It would be horrible if this gen ends next year.

I would have to disagree. This gen has been terrible anime-wise (IMO), so I think they should move on to a new saga and start off with a clean slate. BW has been really lackluster overall, so hopefully they get back on track next saga. DP was written so well compared to previous sagas, so to see the show regress like that was very odd.

The fact that Genesect is getting revealed and distributed now seems to suggest that we will be getting Gen VI next year, or at least something related to it.

Originally Posted by Callisto

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

It would be horrible if this gen ends next year.

I would have to disagree. This gen has been terrible anime-wise (IMO), so I think they should move on to a new saga and start off with a clean slate. BW has been really lackluster overall, so hopefully they get back on track next saga. DP was written so well compared to previous sagas, so to see the show regress like that was very odd.

I think that's my point. AG and DP went on for 4 years each, giving proper development to Ash's teams at the time and the female travel companion. Ash's Hoenn and Sinnoh teams were, for the most part, well handled and May and Dawn got the best screentime of all of Ash's travel companions. The rivals at the time like Paul, Drew, Harley, Barry, etc. were all well handled. Sure there were duds like Kenny, but since there were so many good rivals the crap ones didn't matter.

I'll also find it hard to believe the writers can find another male travel companion to replace Cilan with after such a short time. Cilan is really popular in Japan, but I don't believe they'll keep him another generation.

And besides, the BW trio was intended to mimic the dynamic of the original trio. What are they doing to do next, go back to the AG/DP route with another female beginning trainer co-star?

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I think that's my point. AG and DP went on for 4 years each, giving proper development to Ash's teams at the time and the female travel companion. Ash's Hoenn and Sinnoh teams were, for the most part, well handled and May and Dawn got the best screentime of all of Ash's travel companions. The rivals at the time like Paul, Drew, Harley, Barry, etc. were all well handled. Sure there were duds like Kenny, but since there were so many good rivals the crap ones didn't matter.

I'll also find it hard to believe the writers can find another male travel companion to replace Cilan with after such a short time. Cilan is really popular in Japan, but I don't believe they'll keep him another generation.

And besides, the BW trio was intended to mimic the dynamic of the original trio. What are they doing to do next, go back to the AG/DP route with another female beginning trainer co-star?

Well, Ash already has eight badges, so I'm not sure how they will extend the generation for two more years. There's that World Tournament stuff, but I doubt that'll last more than a few months (if that even happens after the Unova League). There's no Battle Frontier either, so I dunno. The way this is going makes me think Gen VI will be released next year. Unless BW somehow redeems itself in the coming months, I really don't mind seeing the end of this saga soon. They have made Ash look like a lame amateur compared to DP, which is just sad.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I think that's my point. AG and DP went on for 4 years each, giving proper development to Ash's teams at the time and the female travel companion. Ash's Hoenn and Sinnoh teams were, for the most part, well handled and May and Dawn got the best screentime of all of Ash's travel companions. The rivals at the time like Paul, Drew, Harley, Barry, etc. were all well handled. Sure there were duds like Kenny, but since there were so many good rivals the crap ones didn't matter.

BW series has bad writing, what's new? it's not like an additional year will help it so much... AG and DP were great from the beginning and built up their plots and characters properly from the beginning, not after 100 eps...
Also, if a new gen will be released, the anime will HAVE to follow, regardless of how happy us (which aren't even the target audience and don't really matter) or even the writers themselves would be with how BW ended

I'll also find it hard to believe the writers can find another male travel companion to replace Cilan with after such a short time. Cilan is really popular in Japan, but I don't believe they'll keep him another generation.

But it'd happen anyway after this gen ends... another year won't really change anything...

And besides, the BW trio was intended to mimic the dynamic of the original trio. What are they doing to do next, go back to the AG/DP route with another female beginning trainer co-star?

How could we know? we'll have to wait and see, hopefully they will return to a more AG/DP-like set up, since it obviously worked much better, especially for these of us who'd like to see a girl character on the cast that actually do things and get plot and development, rather than be part of the background...

So actually, all you're doing Scott, is point out how badly written BW is... in that case, an additional year wouldn't really help that much and we might as well just go into next gen already and hopefully things will be done better
Anyway, as I said, it doesn't even matter how good or badly the BW series will end, it'll HAVE to end when a new gen is out, so yeah...

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

It would be horrible if this gen ends next year. I almost feel like the entire saga is pointless then. Seriously what was the point?

I don't know if it would be horrible if this generation ended next year. Starting off on a clean slate could help the anime so it has better quality. I also don't think it would make the entire series pointless. It could possibly make it feel like even more wasted potential, but not necessarily pointless. The main point would be to advertise the newest Pokemon and characters through the anime, which they have done.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Ash captured a lot of Pokemon but without any development they're going to wind up being his weakest developed team, even giving the Johto team a run for its money as the worst team. Iris and Cilan (especially Iris), haven't gotten that much development yet. And no giving Iris a Dragonite doesn't make up for it.

After a certain point, I didn't expect most of his Unova Pokemon to have any development. Since they've struggled to give equal screentime to even a regular team of Pokemon before, I didn't believe that they could pull off development for all of, or even the majority, of his Unova Pokemon. Cilan hasn't gotten much development, but I don't know if he was really meant to considering he fills the older mentor role and didn't have a lot of challenges to overcome like Ash and Iris. I still don't think that Iris has any development, but it seems clear to me that they aren't putting much effort into Iris at this point. Giving her a Dragonite when she doesn't even deserve a Fraxture in my opinion definitely doesn't do anything, other than making me quite annoyed at the quality of writing behind her character.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

In terms of rivals? Trip has always been terrible anyway, but Bianca, Stephen, Georgia and Burungly haven't even reached their full potential.

The series hasn't really handled any of the rivals or rivalries that well for me, so I could easily see all of them being underdeveloped/never reaching their full potential. That would be kind of a shame for a few of them, mainly Burgundy, Georiga and Bianca, if only because the video game counterpart of the latter is so awesome, but I could see it happening.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Every saga has also progressed the anime's overall story, at least a tad, by showing Ash accompishing things he didn't in the previous arc. In BW he hasn't done anything amazing.

That's kind of the problem with BW. It doesn't show that Ash is getting stronger through the development of his team and I don't think that he'll get further in the Unova League than he did in the Sinnoh League. BW feels rushed and underdeveloped, which makes it feel like it's full of wasted potential.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I think that's my point. AG and DP went on for 4 years each, giving proper development to Ash's teams at the time and the female travel companion. Ash's Hoenn and Sinnoh teams were, for the most part, well handled and May and Dawn got the best screentime of all of Ash's travel companions. The rivals at the time like Paul, Drew, Harley, Barry, etc. were all well handled. Sure there were duds like Kenny, but since there were so many good rivals the crap ones didn't matter.

I agree, which does make me think that the series work much better if they aren't rushing through the new region and have a generally slow pace in order to work on development the trainers, their Pokemon and the major battles. BW could have worked even a bit better if there wasn't such a fast pace, preventing the writers from developing the characters. The rivalries also tended to be better with a slower pace if DP is any indication.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I'll also find it hard to believe the writers can find another male travel companion to replace Cilan with after such a short time. Cilan is really popular in Japan, but I don't believe they'll keep him another generation.

It depends on how far advanced the writers know about the characters from the new games and if there are any male characters in the early stages of the games to fill Cilan's role. I think it's possible that they could find another male travel companion, but I also think that there's a good chance that Cilan could stick around. He is popular in Japan and so is his Japanese voice actor, so I think it's entirely possible for Cilan to stay another generation.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

And besides, the BW trio was intended to mimic the dynamic of the original trio. What are they doing to do next, go back to the AG/DP route with another female beginning trainer co-star?

I don't really think that the BW trio did a good job trying to capture the group dynamic of the original trio, if only because the BW trio didn't feel like a group of three friends traveling together at any point for me, but if they do indeed go back to another female beginning trainer co-star for Contests or some other sidequest she could do, then I'd be all for that. It would have be to an improvement over whatever they're trying to do with Iris.

To be honest, Best Wishes stopped being good the moment the tsunami killed off the meteor arc. Now, Team Rocket have no reason to be there at all except to poach more Pokemon, and the TRio have no reason to be serious anymore either.

Face it Gliscor'd, the anime has always been like this and there's NOTHING that the writers could do about it.

Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha

To be honest, Best Wishes stopped being good the moment the tsunami killed off the meteor arc. Now, Team Rocket have no reason to be there at all except to poach more Pokemon, and the TRio have no reason to be serious anymore either.

Face it Gliscor'd, the anime has always been like this and there's NOTHING that the writers could do about it.

I don't know if the meteor arc really messed up Team Rocket much. The episodes following the original two-parter were already set in stone well before those episodes were meant to air, so I don't think that delaying the episodes really did that much in the long run.

When will the entire Best Wishes saga end?

I've made you guys a thread to discuss when Best Wishes will end as its straying a bit too far from the subject of Genesect and Movie 16.