How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League? - Page 7

View Poll Results: How would you like Ash to lose in the Unova League?

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  • To a long standing Rival(Bianca or Stephen)

    7 9.59%
  • To Kotetsu and his Riolu(Lucario) or samurott

    4 5.48%
  • To Virgil and his eevee rescue team

    18 24.66%
  • To a Tobias-like rival(hopefully using that rumored Hydreigon)

    9 12.33%
  • To nobody(Have Ash win the League for One)

    25 34.25%
  • Other, please specify in post

    10 13.70%
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Thread: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

  1. #91
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    It is confirmed Kotetsu is for the Top 8. So that means even if Ash loses to Virgil, he'll have come in the Top 4.
    No, what's confirmed is that Ash vs. Kotetsu will be part of fourth round. We didn't know what that meant due to the ambiguity of whether or not the preliminaries counted as the first round, but the recent episode removed any doubt: The preliminaries are the first round, and the second round is already over.

    Let me break it down for you since you seem to be having problems understanding this:

    First Round: Ash vs. Trip (Top 128)
    Second Round: Ash vs. COTD, Bianca vs. Kotetsu (Top 64)
    Third Round: Ash vs. Stephan (Top 32)
    Fourth Round: Ash vs. Kotetsu (Top 16)
    Odd, Adamant/Dephender (from Serebii forums), I believe that's what he still goes by, was sure (I said sure, which means there could be some doubt) Ash vs Kotetsu was Top 8. And he's pretty reliable.

    So the summary we got for the Bianca vs Kotetsu battle was misinterpreted. It wasn't the first round (excluding the preliminaries), it was ONLY the first match of the 2nd round.


    Edit: And a just in case note. You do realize JUST because Bianca vs Kotetsu was the first match of the next round of Pokémon doesn't automatically discount that the round was considered the "first round" of the league while the preliminary round had it's own "round title."

    Just saying.

  2. #92
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Adamant confirmed the Kotetsu match is for Top 8. Ask him.

  3. #93
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    Edit: And a just in case note. You do realize JUST because Bianca vs Kotetsu was the first match of the next round of Pokémon doesn't automatically discount that the round was considered the "first round" of the league while the preliminary round had it's own "round title."
    Dogasu said that the battle was referred to as being part of the second round.

  4. #94
    Registered User Trainer Gabriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Adamant confirmed the Kotetsu match is for Top 8. Ask him.
    You know... unless you're miswording this sentence, that word I enlargened indicates that their match will determine who will advance to the the top 8. Could that have been what Adamant really meant?
    Silktree and Hidden Mew like this.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    Edit: And a just in case note. You do realize JUST because Bianca vs Kotetsu was the first match of the next round of Pokémon doesn't automatically discount that the round was considered the "first round" of the league while the preliminary round had it's own "round title."
    Dogasu said that the battle was referred to as being part of the second round.
    This whole thing is confusing.

    For me I'll just wait until Ash's battle with Kotetsu.

    Confusing summaries and conflicting episode statements aren't helping.

    Especially with the whole "Bianca vs Kotetsu" was supposed to be the first "official" round after the preliminaries.

    However I'm a little concerned about something

    Bianca vs Kotetsu did occur in the overall 2nd round of the league.

    Is it possible, that's what the statement in the show meant.

    Not that it was the actual 2nd round but the overall 2nd round?

    Preliminary Round (Overall 1st round)
    1st Round (Overall 2nd round)
    etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Gabriel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Adamant confirmed the Kotetsu match is for Top 8. Ask him.
    You know... unless you're miswording this sentence, that word I enlargened indicates that their match will determine who will advance to the the top 8. Could that have been what Adamant meant?
    Hmm, maybe. But I think it was more like he said Ash vs Kotetsu is the Top 8 battle, like Ash vs Paul was in Sinnoh, or Ash vs Tyson in Hoenn.

    He even did what Silktree did, only Ash vs Kotetsu was top 8 in post #90, at least I'm pretty sure.

  6. #96
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    It would be helpful if you actually quoted Adamant.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    It would be helpful if you actually quoted Adamant.
    Summary of BW021:

    Summary:
    The Isshu League has already made it to its midway point! Satoshi and his friends decide to return to their dorms for a bit. Suddenly, Pikachu notices that... Kibago is gone!! It got careless while chasig a floating balloon, and ended up getting separated from Satoshi and the others. Iris sets out on a desperate search.

    In the meantime, Pikachu and the others find Kibago in a small alley. At the same time, Mijumaru spots boxloads of fruit in a back alley, and eats all of it. However, this turns out to be food the 'Trash Heap Pokémon' Dustdas, who live in the back alley, were given by their neighbors. The 'Trash Bag Pokémon' Yabukuron are sad over the loss of their fruit, and the angry Dustdas, situated below Pikachu and friends, who are relieved after finding Pikachu, decide to...! What happens now!?

    And a follow up post on that Summary:

    BWS2_21: League COntinues - Page 49

    With this important note: Then, midway point? Ash hasn't even beaten Stephan yet by this point.. If this is halfway, then we'll get one more episode after the titles we have now!
    Then Adamant/Dephender said this:

    BWS2_21: League COntinues - Page 49

    With: My understanding is that it refers to the preliminaries and main round 1 and 2 being over, with round 3 (Satoshi VS Kenyan), 4 (Satoshi VS Kotetsu), the semifinals and the finals remaining.

    Maybe "entered its midway stage" is a better way of wording it than "reached its midway point".


    Being important.

    There's only 7 rounds total. 6 if we believe Ash won't be making the finals.

    That means in order for the summary to be accurate. Ash vs Stephan has to be the 4th overall battle. There's no other way to look at it.

    Because in order for it to be entering its midway or even reached its midway three battles have to have been finished with.

  8. #98
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Oh please. Adamant didn't say what you implied; he was just speculating. "Halfway" is used very loosely here, and nothing indicates that the Axew episode will show a montage of another round.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Oh please. Adamant didn't say what you implied. He was just speculating.
    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post

    Odd, Adamant/Dephender (from Serebii forums), I believe that's what he still goes by, was sure (I said sure, which means there could be some doubt)
    Way to miss this.

    Oh and to repeat myself:

    The summary for BW021 says: The Isshu League has already made it to its midway point!

    What I said:
    ----
    There's only 7 rounds total. 6 if we believe Ash won't be making the finals.

    That means in order for the summary to be accurate. Ash vs Stephan has to be the 4th overall battle. There's no other way to look at it.

    Because in order for it to be entering its midway or even reached its midway three battles have to have been finished with.
    ----------
    Which is the conclusion Adamant came up with.

    But anyway, no, math points to Ash vs Stephan having to be the 4th overall round/match but of the 3rd round.

    Half of 7 is 3.5
    Half of 6 is 3

    1 2 3<This has to be halfway>4 5 6

    The only way the summary could be accurate and Kotetsu being Top 16 is if Ash loses to Kotetsu.

    Because then it would be 1 2 <Halfway> 3 4 (loss).

    But no summary would ever be that spoiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    and nothing indicates that the Axew episode will show a montage of another round.
    What do you mean by that?

    They can't just take after Bianca vs Kotetsu's battle, Ash, Virgil, and Stephan still need to battle, or do you mean an additional round after that confirmed one?

  10. #100
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    I was referring to The Fighting Misty's claim more so than to yours.

    Adamant said it himself: "Maybe 'entered its midway stage' is a better way of wording it than 'reached its midway point'." Midway stage is a vague term, and is probably just referencing the fact that the battles will be longer from now on.

    At any rate, I don't see any ambiguity here now that we know that Bianca vs. Kotetsu was called the second round. The magazine summaries have no reason to use a different counting system.

    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    They can't just take after Bianca vs Kotetsu's battle, Ash, Virgil, and Stephan still need to battle, or do you mean an additional round after that confirmed one?
    Yes, I do. I don't see them condensing so many battles, short though they may be, into an episode whose main plot is about something else.

  11. #101
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    I was referring to The Fighting Misty's claim more so than to yours.

    Adamant said it himself: "Maybe 'entered its midway stage' is a better way of wording it than 'reached its midway point'." Midway stage is a vague term, and is probably just referencing the fact that the battles will be longer from now on.

    At any rate, I don't see any ambiguity here now that we know that Bianca vs. Kotetsu was called the second round. The magazine summaries have no reason to use a different counting system.

    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    They can't just take after Bianca vs Kotetsu's battle, Ash, Virgil, and Stephan still need to battle, or do you mean an additional round after that confirmed one?
    Yes, I do. I don't see them condensing so many battles, short though they may be, into an episode whose main plot is about something else.
    I'll explain why this is so difficult to process or comprehend, and why I won't believe it until it happens.

    We have two options:

    #1
    Preliminary (Overall 1st Round) (vs Trip)- 128 (BW019-BW020)
    1st Round (Overall 2nd Round) (vs COTD, Bianca vs Kotetsu)- 64 (beginning in BW021)
    2nd Round (Overall 3rd Round) (vs COTD)- 32 (End of BW021 beginning of BW022)
    3rd Round (Overall 4th Round) (vs Stephan)- 16 (BW022)
    4th Round (Overall 5th round) (vs Kotetsu)- 8 (End of BW022, or beginning of BW023)

    #2
    1st round (vs Trip)- 128 (BW019-BW020)
    2nd Round (vs Cotd, Bianca vs Kotetsu)- 64 (BW020-BW021)
    3rd Round (vs Stephan)- 32 (BW022)
    4th Round (vs Kotetsu)- 16 (BW023)

    Of all the summaries, all the statements, the problem is they don't conflict with #1 (let's ignore the midway summary), even if #2 is more likely.

    And here's why:

    Summary #1 says: Bianca vs Kotetsu is the first main round of the league
    Summary #2 says: Ash vs Stephan is the third round of the league
    Statement #1 says: Bianca vs Kotetsu concludes 2nd round.

    This why it doesn't conflict with option #1.

    The summaries could've referred to the Preliminary Round, while Bianca vs Kotetsu was the first main round of league, after the preliminaries, however it is considered the overall 2nd round. Preliminary + 1st round= 2nd round no matter how you want to argue.

    So the show itself could've been a bit more literal than the summaries. The summaries could've easily have counted the Preliminary Round as it's own special round, while Bianca vs Kotetsu was not a preliminary round thus considered by the summary makers to be the 1st main round of the league, even though it's the 2nd overall round of the league.

    Now forgetting the "midway" summary entirely. It is entirely conceivable that another round COULD take place BEFORE Stephan. In either the end of the BW021, or the beginning of BW022.

    Because this is SO confusing, and either option is possible. I can't really accept the word of anyone, UNTIL it actually happens.

    If Stephan is Top 32, then okay, or if Stephan is Top 16, okay.

    But it has to be specifically stated for me to accept it.

    Because the round explanation just isn't working for me. It has to be either Top 32, or Top 16 for Stephan.

  12. #102
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin
    So the show itself could've been a bit more literal than the summaries. The summaries could've easily have counted the Preliminary Round as it's own special round, while Bianca vs Kotetsu was not a preliminary round thus considered by the summary makers to be the 1st main round of the league, even though it's the 2nd overall round of the league.
    I just don't see why the summaries wouldn't use the same counting system as the show's. Yes, they referred to the second round as "the first main round", but we both agree that is not the same as calling it the first round. The more recent summaries refer to the third and fourth rounds, but not to the second one.

    Either way, I don't find it important whether or not Ash will make it to the Top 4 due to a skipped match. In either case, it is incredibly unlikely that a 6VS6 battle will be skipped between the Kotetsu and Virgil battles. We know that there will only be two episodes in January to wrap up the league.

  13. #103
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin
    So the show itself could've been a bit more literal than the summaries. The summaries could've easily have counted the Preliminary Round as it's own special round, while Bianca vs Kotetsu was not a preliminary round thus considered by the summary makers to be the 1st main round of the league, even though it's the 2nd overall round of the league.
    I just don't see why the summaries wouldn't use the same counting system as the show's. Yes, they referred to the second round as "the first main round", but we both agree that is not the same as calling it the first round. The more recent summaries refer to the third and fourth rounds, but not to the second one.
    (Typing from 3DS, excuse typos)

    Well for starters look at it like this.

    Bianca vs Kotetsu, the 1st round after the preliminary round or Ash vs Kotetsu the 3rd round after the preliminary round.

    Secondly a round full of everyone vs Cotd, would receive very little hype, so it could easily get a montage like the rest of the Top 64 round. And it as well could be a 2 vs 2 match. So it doesn't need that much screentime.

  14. #104
    . Ishida's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    I hate Virgil why did they even introduce him? They should have used Benga or Hugh now that we now Team Plasma might actually be appearing.

    Ahh forget it, this league is a mess anyway.

  15. #105
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you like Ash to lose the Unova League?

    I can't believe we're still debating this. When Ash beats Kotetsu he will be in the Top 8. The Ash Vs. Virgil match is for Top 4...if Ash loses, he'll get Top 4.

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