Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
To be honest, there were times in BF where I forgot it was set in Kanto. Like all the time. Most of the places the characters travelled to were anime exclusive, and there was very little call back to any past events from Ash's last journey there.
However, I think this ultimately worked in BF's favour. It was a continuation of the AG groups story in Hoenn that just happened to be set in Kanto for advertisement reasons, so I don't think there was any point in trying to emulate the tone of the original series.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
comparable with original kanto series NO, do i like it better HELL TO THE YES
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
OS could screw the rules
BF cant.
OS is better
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
I think this is the whole reason they didn't bother to make a Johto BF arc. Johto would be unrecognizable with no familiar locations revisited and there would be no point.
Plus the writers probably didn't want Ash to challenge more Frontier Brains anyway.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
The Fighting Misty 
I think this is the whole reason they didn't bother to make a Johto BF arc. Johto would be unrecognizable with no familiar locations revisited and there would be no point.
Plus the writers probably didn't want Ash to challenge more Frontier Brains anyway.
I don't think that was the reason. I think it had more to do with how they didn't really have time to go through a Johto Battle Frontier arc. By the time they finished the Sinnoh League, they were getting ready for BW. It's also quite possible that the writers planned on sticking in Sinnoh for the entire DP series from the start, so unlike with AG, they didn't make room for a second arc for DP. Being unrecognizable wasn't really much of a problem with Kanto, or at least I don't believe I've heard anything about that being a problem with the target audience for the seires, so I don't think that would have been a problem with Johto if they did have the time to spend another arc there. I'm not sure if they didn't want Ash to challenge more Frontier Brains since I don't see why that would be a problem. Even if the prize was the same, he'd still go for it, if only for the shake of getting stronger, battling tougher opponents and raising more Pokemon.
It's been a long time since I saw the Battle Frontier arc, but I do remember how it felt like an extended Hoenn to me as well. Personally, I don't think that was a problem. Most of the kids who were watching AG at the time most likely weren't that familiar with the Kanto saga in the original series, so it was probably a better choice to go with mostly new areas in Kanto instead of revisiting a lot of different places that could confuse the target audience. Plus, aside from seeing Sabrina when they were in Saffron City and maybe running into Mewtwo for a special as some kind of promotion for FR/LG, I wasn't really expecting much revisiting of older characters anyway.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
pokemonsquared OS could screw the rules
BF cant.
OS is better
IIRC, May's little shit of a Squirtle screwed the rules on a regular basis. To say nothing of Regicegate. Not sure why that's meant to be a good thing, though.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
Hidden Mew Most of the kids who were watching AG at the time most likely weren't that familiar with the Kanto saga in the original series, so it was probably a better choice to go with mostly new areas in Kanto instead of revisiting a lot of different places that could confuse the target audience.
That doesn't excuse ignoring most game locations. The young viewers were still familiar with those locations thanks to FRLG, so they wouldn't have been confused even if some references to Ash's first quest had been made. Was Jasmine's return confusing? The character's past involvement was explained by a brief flashback. The DP series also had references to Ash's Butterfree, the Thunderstone debacle and Jessibelle. Those were completely unnecessary as far as game promotion is concerned, and yet the writers didn't mind inserting them. I think that the writers are simply inconsistent when it comes to past references.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
Silktree That doesn't excuse ignoring most game locations. The young viewers were still familiar with those locations thanks to FRLG, so they wouldn't have been confused even if some references to Ash's first quest had been made. Was Jasmine's return confusing? The character's past involvement was explained by a brief flashback. The DP series also had references to Ash's Butterfree, the Thunderstone debacle and Jessibelle. Those were completely unnecessary as far as game promotion is concerned, and yet the writers didn't mind inserting them. I think that the writers are simply inconsistent when it comes to past references.
Honestly, I was thinking more about the writers not wanting to have more Kanto characters reappearing more so that ignoring the game locations in that post. Maybe they didn't think it was necessary when Ash wasn't going for Gym battles in this arc, although I guess they could have inserted the Frontier Brains in specific game locations since I think that they did that for a couple of May's Contests. I know that DP did have quite a few references to past events and I didn't mean to imply that Jasmine's return, or those references, were confusing for the audience since I don't think that they were. I just don't think that the writers wanted go through Kanto in a similar way they did in the first series or have a lot of characters from that series reappear during the Battle Frontier arc like I think many people thought would happen. Personally, I just don't think that they wanted to take the risk of alienating their audience, even with FR/LG making them familiar with the game locations, with bringing in a lot of characters from the first Kanto saga reappear again, like I think many people expected to happen. Then, I think that they got more comfortable with the idea in DP, which I guess your inconsistent theory would come into play.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
Hidden Mew Personally, I just don't think that they wanted to take the risk of alienating their audience, even with FR/LG making them familiar with the game locations, with bringing in a lot of characters from the first Kanto saga reappear again, like I think many people expected to happen. Then, I think that they got more comfortable with the idea in DP, which I guess your inconsistent theory would come into play.
I fail to see how would reappearance of more characters from Kanto alienate audience at all? Most kids watch this show for battles and character interactions being a lot less critic toward anime than we(older fans)are.
Bringing more familiar faces or revisiting locations Ash traveled through wouldn't be any more confusing than random returns of older characters in DP were, flashbacks and references to Misty, Cerulean and Pewter gyms , references to Ash older pokemon etc.
Not to mention airing of chronicles at that time which included several first and second generation characters.
Even if we go by presumption how most kids at that time weren't familiarized with OS(something i have hard time believing, since they happened right before AG era started with gap between generations not being much big like its now), revisit of some of Kanto gyms, characters and locations would at worst leave same effect like invention of new locations did among audience.
If anything since Kanto was actual again when Fire Red/Leaf green remakes were released, paying more attention to game characters and locations and staying more faithful to region where Ash journey and anime started and to its roots, would make younger kids potentially appreciate this more than complete overhaul making it seem like theyre in completely different region. Never mind fact of getting chance to be better familiarized with Ash past and region from where he originated from.
I have to agree with Silktre here. Continuity and consistent story were never one of stronger writer points, and as such this resulted in poorly depicted and written arc we got. In my opinion anyway.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
pokemon fan 132 I fail to see how would reappearance of more characters from Kanto alienate audience at all? Most kids watch this show for battles and character interactions being a lot less critic toward anime than we(older fans)are.
Bringing more familiar faces or revisiting locations Ash traveled through wouldn't be any more confusing than random returns of older characters in DP were, flashbacks and references to Misty, Cerulean and Pewter gyms , references to Ash older pokemon etc.
Not to mention airing of chronicles at that time which included several first and second generation characters.
Even if we go by presumption how most kids at that time weren't familiarized with OS(something i have hard time believing, since they happened right before AG era started with gap between generations not being much big like its now), revisit of some of Kanto gyms, characters and locations would at worst leave same effect like invention of new locations did among audience.
I just don't think that they were interested in bringing in a lot more familiar faces or revisiting a lot of the locations for this arc. Maybe they thought that if they relied too much on past references for Kanto, kids who weren't familiar with the original series wouldn't be that into it. There were were quite a few references to past series in DP, but not to a point where it felt like kids would need to see the older series to get them completely and maybe they thought if they overdid it with past references during the second trip in Kanto, it wouldn't have worked. Though, I do think that Silktre has a good point on the writers being inconsistent with past references, especially when they didn't have too much of a problem with it in DP. For all I know, I could be totally off about the the fear of alienating their main audience aspect and they just didn't plan ahead of time for more past references/cameos from older characters like they most likely did in DP.
That's just my speculation on how they could have felt about it and I don't think that throwing in a couple of past references would have hurt, or at least they could have mentioned some more Gym Leaders, but I didn't really mind that they didn't go that route either. I kind of liked that the arc focused on different areas. It did make it more like Kanto by name only and seeing how some locations had changed might have been nice, but I kind of liked being able to see a lot of new places in Kanto instead of going through every place Ash went to before. It probably helps that I also wasn't expecting the second Kanto journey going through the exact same stops the first one did and I wasn't a huge fan of the first Kanto journey either. Now that I think about it, it's also possible that they didn't have time to cover everything that they could have covered from the remakes, especially with having a different journey and not a lot of time between the end phase of the third generation and the start of the fourth generation.
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Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
If anything since Kanto was actual again when Fire Red/Leaf green remakes were released, paying more attention to game characters and locations and staying more faithful to region where Ash journey and anime started and to its roots, would make younger kids potentially appreciate this more than complete overhaul making it seem like theyre in completely different region. Never mind fact of getting chance to be better familiarized with Ash past and region from where he originated from.
I have to agree with Silktre here. Continuity and consistent story were never one of stronger writer points, and as such this resulted in poorly depicted and written arc we got. In my opinion anyway.
While being more faithful to the Kanto region sounds kind of nice, it would have been kind of hard to pull off given the setup with Frontier Brains and Contests being set throughout the region in the anime. They probably could have given each Gym Leader, except probably Giovanni, an episode focused around them and that might have been interesting, but I'm still thinking that they either weren't interested in doing that since Ash wouldn't be battling them for badges or they just possibly didn't have time to cover all of them. I'm not sure about the whole being familiar with Ash's past and where he came from. While that wouldn't hurt, it also really isn't required for kids to know about Ash, to like him, or enjoy the series. Being from Kanto isn't that important to him and only a few details of his past are really important, mainly how he and Pikachu became friends, so I don't think it would have been that necessary for kids to get to know more about his past. I don't know if I think that this arc was poorly written, but it has been a long time since I've seen it. I do remember feeling that it was rushed though.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
Hidden Mew
I just don't think that they were interested in bringing in more familiar faces or revisiting a lot of the locations for this arc. Maybe they thought that if they relied too much on past references for Kanto, kids who weren't familiar with the original series wouldn't be that into it. There were were quite a few references to past series in DP, but not to a point where it felt like kids would need to see the older series to get them completely and maybe they thought if they overdid it with past references during the second trip in Kanto, it wouldn't have worked. Though, I do think that Silktre has a good point on the writers being inconsistent with past references, especially when they didn't have too much of a problem with it in DP.
That's just my speculation on how they could have felt about it and I don't think that throwing in a couple of past references would have hurt, or at least they could have mentioned some more Gym Leaders, but I didn't really mind that they didn't go that route either. I kind of liked that the arc focused on different areas. It did make it more like Kanto by name only and seeing how some locations had changed might have been nice, but I kind of liked being able to see a lot of new places in Kanto instead of going through every place Ash went to before. It probably helps that I also wasn't expecting the second Kanto journey going through the exact same stops the first one did and I wasn't a huge fan of the first Kanto journey either. Now that I think about it, it's also possible that they didn't have time to cover everything that they could have covered from the remakes, especially with having a different journey and not a lot of time between the end phase of the third generation and the start of the fourth generation.
Lack of interest could have been one of reasons, which is pity because im sure younger generations would have appreciated it, especially if they watched older seasons. Which is possible given how AG saga had quite a few references to previous series keeping things alive.
I do get your point on seeing some new places from Kanto region for change when revisiting it though, but i think ideal thing would be if they had balanced mix of both visiting new places, but also including little more of things from original Kato making Ash return to hometown region feel more genuine and realistic.
Which i guess was never meant to happen.
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While being more faithful to the Kanto region sounds kind of nice, it would have been kind of hard to pull off given the setup with Frontier Brains and Contests being set throughout the region in the anime. They probably could have given each Gym Leader, except probably Giovanni, an episode focused around them and that might have been interesting, but I'm still thinking that they either weren't interested in doing that since Ash wouldn't be battling them for badges or they just possibly didn't have time to cover all of them. I don't know if I think that this arc was poorly written, but it has been a long time since I've seen it. I do remember feeling that it was rushed though.
Whatever was reason, if BF felt more like Kanto than just by its name i would probably enjoyed in it more. Either way i thought it would have been nice if some of gym leaders like Sabrina appeared when one of May contests was held in Saffron anyway, visiting Cerulean which was close to battle factory and Misty traveling for longer would have been cool too, and some of Kanto minor characters appearing like AJ could set up for interesting arc. And i always thought Jessibelle re appearing in Kanto would have made more sense than out of blue random showing up in DP. Gary returning little earlier would be appreciated too.
Although now that you mentioned it, not having enough time to include everything could have been one of factors. Gap between gyms and contests was very short, and from what i remember pacing was pretty fast with some of contests, and challenges against Frontier brains being definitely rushed.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
I don't compare the two because they're nothing alike. There were many times when I forgot that the Battle Frontier took place in Kanto. It didn't really feel like they changed locations. They only had them go back to Kanto for the FireRed and LeafGreen games. If it wasn't for that then they probably still would have been in Hoenn.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
pokemon fan 132 Lack of interest could have been one of reasons, which is pity because im sure younger generations would have appreciated it, especially if they watched older seasons. Which is possible given how AG saga had quite a few references to previous series keeping things alive.
I do get your point on seeing some new places from Kanto region for change when revisiting it though, but i think ideal thing would be if they had balanced mix of both visiting new places, but also including little more of things from original Kato making Ash return to hometown region feel more genuine and realistic.
Which i guess was never meant to happen.
I don't know if the target audience really lost a lot by not being able to see more of the past Kanto in this arc, but trying to have a balance mix of old and new places might have worked.
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Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
Whatever was reason, if BF felt more like Kanto than just by its name i would probably enjoyed in it more. Either way i thought it would have been nice if some of gym leaders like Sabrina appeared when one of May contests was held in Saffron anyway, visiting Cerulean which was close to battle factory and Misty traveling for longer would have been cool too, and some of Kanto minor characters appearing like AJ could set up for interesting arc. And i always thought Jessibelle re appearing in Kanto would have made more sense than out of blue random showing up in DP. Gary returning little earlier would be appreciated too.
Although now that you mentioned it, not having enough time to include everything could have been one of factors. Gap between gyms and contests was very short, and from what i remember pacing was pretty fast with some of contests, and challenges against Frontier brains being definitely rushed.
I was expecting Sabrina to appear when they were in Saffron City and I don't think she was even mentioned, which was kind of surprising. Misty already had another couple of episodes on top of those two Togepi Kingdom episodes, so I don't know she really needed to be with the group even longer. Maybe they could have had an episode with her battling against a challenger while visiting Cerulean City, but that's the most I could have seen them do with her. I really couldn't see them bringing back one-shot characters like AJ back. At least Jessibelle is connected to a main character, so it wouldn't have been a huge stretch to bring a character like her back. Besides that, they most likely would be traveling in other regions by that point. I was actually okay with Gary appearing out of nowhere at the last AG episode. At least it served a purpose with getting Ash motivated to go to Sinnoh. I do remember the gaps between Frontier Brain battles and Contests being fairly short. Since they already had so much to do with Ash getting seven Frontier symbols, May getting five ribbons and entering the Grand Festival in one arc, they didn't have enough time to have that much references to the past. Although, since they were going for a different journey entirely from the start, it also still feels quite possible that they weren't interested in doing a lot of past references or having more familiar faces around, especially when the whole arc felt like an extension of Hoenn that just happened to take place in Kanto.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
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Originally Posted by
Hidden Mew
I don't know if the target audience really lost a lot by not being able to see more of the past Kanto in this arc, but trying to have a balance mix of old and new places might have worked.
I still think it would allow them to better comprehend Ash past as trainer and land from where he started quest, and it would went better with promotion of FR/LG remakes imo.
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I was expecting Sabrina to appear when they were in Saffron City and I don't think she was even mentioned, which was kind of surprising. Misty already had another couple of episodes on top of those two Togepi Kingdom episodes, so I don't know she really needed to be with the group even longer. Maybe they could have had an episode with her battling against a challenger while visiting Cerulean City, but that's the most I could have seen them do with her. I really couldn't see them bringing back one-shot characters like AJ back. At least Jessibelle is connected to a main character, so it wouldn't have been a huge stretch to bring a character like her back. Besides that, they most likely would be traveling in other regions by that point. I was actually okay with Gary appearing out of nowhere at the last AG episode. At least it served a purpose with getting Ash motivated to go to Sinnoh. I do remember the gaps between Frontier Brain battles and Contests being fairly short. Since they already had so much to do with Ash getting seven Frontier symbols, May getting five ribbons and entering the Grand Festival in one arc, they didn't have enough time to have that much references to the past. Although, since they were going for a different journey entirely from the start, it also still feels quite possible that they weren't interested in doing a lot of past references or having more familiar faces around, especially when the whole arc felt like an extension of Hoenn that just happened to take place in Kanto.
Examples i mentioned are just my personal preference and since they revisited Pewter gym, i thought it would been nice if they visited Cerulean as well with group functioning well with her around. Back than i remember people even speculating how Misty might join cast for whole BF advancing her dream or going on some special venture of some sort, and admittedly i wouldn't mind because shes one of my favorites and getting additional girl in cast would have been interesting to see.
As for AJ to be fair Duplica or Aya were one shot characters until they reappeared in Johto, so i thought it would be nice if we had some of surprising returns when traveling through Kanto again making whole journey feel like its actually placed there.
That said i wish we got to see some of gym leaders like Blaine and Koga too.
Anyway characters i gave are just example how there could have been more references helping to promote remakes and matter of personal preference, so there's no really point in debating such things.
Re: How do you compare the original Kanto series to the Battle Frontier series?
Well, the biggest problem with gym leader cameos is that almost all of them were as boring as dirt, Misty excluded. What would they do if they showed up again? Have Lt. Surge call Max a baby too? Have May and Erika blabber about perfume? Require a flashback to explain why Sabrina has a Haunter/Gengar now? Probably the only people they could've done something with were Misty and maybe Blaine, because they made everyone else extremely boring (actually, throw Blaine in there too).
