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  1. #76
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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    To me, if 4Kids still ran the anime dub, it wouldn't be that much different from the TPCi dub that replaced it. The only things that would be different are the voice actors and slightly more butchered scenes, and possibly different music, other than that, not that much would be different.
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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    I think that TPCi shoulod take 4Kids' VA to dub the series at the time. If 4kids were to dub the series after BF:

    -There will be next to no Japanese music in the show (except the motto). Hoiwever, Japanese music isn't guaranteed with TPCi.

    -The show would have a delay of 9-10 months between Japan and the US. Now is 3 months. 4kids didn't to do anything to shorter the gap. TPCi did it in BF and DP.

    -Mature relationship like Paul-Ash, depressions arcs like Dawn's losing streak will be toned heavily down.

    -Is probably that episodes that involve J would be only aired in Japan, having various Legend of Dratini 2.0. And 4kids could air a heavy edited version of DP151-DP152 without J and a lot of paint edits. Of course, they won't air J's possible dead who was edited by the Japanese marker because is a kids show.

    -And the worst, my favourite character's skirt (Dawn) will be horribly lengthen because the skirt will be inappropiate for children. We notice that about DP40 her skirt would be chenged to a better edit, this time from a Japanese source.

    -4kids is capale to shorthen the arc skipping arcs like Episode N, specially because it could be mature for children. However, 4kids wouldn0t have survived to 2013.

    -In Black and Wite we would have to suffer a big gap because 4kids went bankrupcy, increasing the already long gap.

    -We would have too many problems with the dub starting 2008.

    If 4Kids was like in the first 3 seasons I wouldn't have worried much ut if 4kids was like in Season 8, I will be worried.
    Last edited by Nymphia; 30th March 2013 at 02:17 PM.
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    I have unpopular opinions: I prefer an older character returning but it isn't from the original trio. I was one of the few who liked both DP and BW. And I think that TR shouldn't leave in the anime.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    I think that TPCi shoulod take 4Kids' VA to dub the series at the time. If 4kids were to dub the series after BF:

    -There will be next to no Japanese music in the show (except the motto). Hoiwever, Japanese music isn't guaranteed with TPCi.

    -The show would have a delay of 9-10 months between Japan and the US. Now is 3 months. 4kids didn't to do anything to shorter the gap. TPCi did it in BF and DP.

    -Mature relationship like Paul-Ash, depressions arcs like Dawn's losing streak will be toned heavily down.

    -Is probably that episodes that involve J would be only aired in Japan, having various Legend of Dratini 2.0. And 4kids could air a heavy edited version of DP151-DP152 without J and a lot of paint edits. Of course, they won't air J's possible dead who was edited by the Japanese marker because is a kids show.

    -And the worst, my favourite character's skirt (Dawn) will be horribly lengthen because the skirt will be inappropiate for children. We notice that about DP40 her skirt would be chenged to a better edit, this time from a Japanese source.

    -4kids is capale to shorthen the arc skipping arcs like Episode N, specially because it could be mature for children. However, 4kids wouldn0t have survived to 2013.

    -In Black and Wite we would have to suffer a big gap because 4kids went bankrupcy, increasing the already long gap.

    -We would have too many problems with the dub starting 2008.

    If 4Kids was like in the first 3 seasons I wouldn't have worried much ut if 4kids was like in Season 8, I will be worried.
    True. I think 4Kids would've done a good dub of BW, but not so much DP, based on what you've said. I'm trying to think of what could've gone bad with them in BW besides replacing the JPN music (hopefully they wouldn't do that, but who knows?) and the gap...I can't really see anything other than that they'd do bad with BW series. They've got the sandwiches and Americanization kinda taken care of...rofl.

    I kinda felt the 4Kids dub was relatively consistent in its first 6 seasons. That's the peak of the dubbed version for me, personally. Seasons 7-8 were good, but a bit rough. Seasons 9-11 were very rough for me. Seasons 12-13 were good, but a bit rough. Seasons 14+ are good.

    Seasons 7 and 8 were better in voice acting (with the exception of Eric's James, who I noticed Eric got too homo-sounding (still hilarious), but he got a lot better in Season 8 again, though), and use of movie music, but declined in other aspects like the riceballs becoming sandwiches and stuff. I was never really bothered by their edits, though, myself.

    Toughest thing for me was getting used to TPCi's voice actors in the dub, so that's the greatest problem I've had with the dubbed version. I've done it by now, but the initial shock was just so severe for me, I guess.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 02:55 PM.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    I'm perfectly willing to accept that perhaps I have outgrown this series. I will never regret that I gave the new cast a chance back in Battle Frontier, though. Perhaps I did appreciate it more since by then, I was following the raw as well as the dub. Unlike most, though, I am not as persnickety on the details. I do appreciate that there are less of them now that I know the atrocities done previously, and the information conflicts it caused. (and in some cases still exist)


    I have spent time in the enemy camp, and they make a good case. I even myself realized why the anime is so limited and never will be a truly cohesive narrative. The marketing nature of the show makes it so. Not to mention that they need to portray things from the game faithfully. This will inherently cause hiccups in the need to flesh things out and making a unique world. I pity the people that must follow these restrictions, for it makes the story suffer. True, the writers and the aimators made an effort to make things accessible to all cultures (I wonder if the decision to be like Kanto was part of this), but this held them back as well. As a result, the anime is too inconsistent to even take as a solid prortrayal of anything. I will say that even AG and DP is guilty of this. This has existed since the beginning and will always exist because the outcome never was important, and never will be important. One thing I will agree on is that Kanto and Orange were the most unique the show ever got, and possibly ever will be. I may even agree Kanto was written as a comedy and was never intended to be taken seriously. Orange was just filler, but it was imaginative filler at least. The series departed from this fo better or worse regardless of the dub. Either way, BW is poorly conceived, whether it is seen as Kanto redone or as a break from what was given to us up to DP.

    Perhaps I have no business even bothering with XY, but still I wait to make that judgment myself. It is the last chance I am giving them regardless. I stopped watching the dub with the beginning of the Meloetta arc because I could no longer endorse this. To me, it was never about the dub, it was the show itself.
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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    I'm perfectly willing to accept that perhaps I have outgrown this series. I will never regret that I gave the new cast a chance back in Battle Frontier, though. Perhaps I did appreciate it more since by then, I was following the raw as well as the dub. Unlike most, though, I am not as persnickety on the details. I do appreciate that there are less of them now that I know the atrocities done previously, and the information conflicts it caused. (and in some cases still exist)


    I have spent time in the enemy camp, and they make a good case. I even myself realized why the anime is so limited and never will be a truly cohesive narrative. The marketing nature of the show makes it so. Not to mention that they need to portray things from the game faithfully. This will inherently cause hiccups in the need to flesh things out and making a unique world. I pity the people that must follow these restrictions, for it makes the story suffer. True, the writers and the aimators made an effort to make things accessible to all cultures (I wonder if the decision to be like Kanto was part of this), but this held them back as well. As a result, the anime is too inconsistent to even take as a solid prortrayal of anything. I will say that even AG and DP is guilty of this. This has existed since the beginning and will always exist because the outcome never was important, and never will be important. One thing I will agree on is that Kanto and Orange were the most unique the show ever got, and possibly ever will be. I may even agree Kanto was written as a comedy and was never intended to be taken seriously. Orange was just filler, but it was imaginative filler at least. The series departed from this fo better or worse regardless of the dub. Either way, BW is poorly conceived, whether it is seen as Kanto redone or as a break from what was given to us up to DP.

    Perhaps I have no business even bothering with XY, but still I wait to make that judgment myself. It is the last chance I am giving them regardless. I stopped watching the dub with the beginning of the Meloetta arc because I could no longer endorse this. To me, it was never about the dub, it was the show itself.
    I know that feeling, man. It is tough to see so much change. I like to think of it as a fresh start for the series, I guess.

    I really admired the uniqueness of Kanto and Orange Islands myself.

    I actually gave the current cast a shot in Battle Frontier and Diamond and Pearl. I've watched all the episodes since the takeover (even the ones when I left the series in mid-DP: it's the first and last time I dropped out of the series), but I just don't like them as much. They're still good, but just not my preference for the dub.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 04:35 PM.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    I agree with the people who want the original voice actors back! It's hard for me to say hate 4Kids when I loved the show so much better when they dubbed it.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    I can take the change, it's the mentality that irks me. I once myself said that it was foolish to even suggest that this show will ever have a solid ending. I said that for different reasons than I do now. Back then, I had just accepted that it was the nature of the show to always start over, although then, it still gave us progression from the previous series. They always pulled off a bigger accomplishment than last time. I guess I just took it for granted that it would always be that way. True, they would delay a real end perhaps infinitely, but I still thought it would come with progress. I did not realize the flaw in this logic: there comes a point where this no longer becomes possible if progress continues. Unless we somehow have Tobias taken to his full realization: with a legend or several legends that are unstoppable by the anime's standards. Even if this means having a team of six Arceus. (don't even ask me how that's possible, they would MAKE it possible) Of course, there is one way to avert even this: Ash himself becomes a deity in some measure, perhaps even ascending to be a pokemon in his own right. He rewrites the multiverse to be his own and surpasses all forms of Arceus to do so. Either way, there is no way they could keep trumping themselves forever. I made that mistake myself once. From it, I realized the importance of limiting the strength of my characters and more importantly that things should be ended before things go out of control. I do not like the solution the writers chose, to forgo continuity and return to the style of years ago when the character development no longer made sense for that. There is nothing to say or do now, but that is why I am still here, too. It could have only been a one time thing, but I cannot help but know that their point was made. Not even continuity is sacred. That alone should've destroyed me and anyone else that expected progress. I did not expect an end, but that was perhaps foolish of me given my logic. Even if they do improve, what then? I wait for them to do it again? It would most undoubtedly get to that point regardless of what you believe in. By now, even expecting DP again is almost folly, given how they've chosen to end this gen, and that even amidst what would've otherwise been a fairly decent idea, they still muck it up and by now, it looks like they can't decide whether they want to be serious or comic. I don't know what it is I expect anymore. If I expect sense, I know I'm never going to get it. This is why I got into fanfiction years ago. I should've taken the hint when Piplup disappeared from active posting. Regardless, I will see this to whatever end it takes me to. If this is to be my last ride, then so be it. I don't even think XY can save this, but I owe it to myself to at least see what it is they do.
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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulbajer View Post
    It's hard for me to say hate 4Kids when I loved the show so much better when they dubbed it.
    Yep, that about sums up how I feel in a nutshell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    I can take the change, it's the mentality that irks me. I once myself said that it was foolish to even suggest that this show will ever have a solid ending. I said that for different reasons than I do now. Back then, I had just accepted that it was the nature of the show to always start over, although then, it still gave us progression from the previous series. They always pulled off a bigger accomplishment than last time. I guess I just took it for granted that it would always be that way. True, they would delay a real end perhaps infinitely, but I still thought it would come with progress. I did not realize the flaw in this logic: there comes a point where this no longer becomes possible if progress continues. Unless we somehow have Tobias taken to his full realization: with a legend or several legends that are unstoppable by the anime's standards. Even if this means having a team of six Arceus. (don't even ask me how that's possible, they would MAKE it possible) Of course, there is one way to avert even this: Ash himself becomes a deity in some measure, perhaps even ascending to be a pokemon in his own right. He rewrites the multiverse to be his own and surpasses all forms of Arceus to do so. Either way, there is no way they could keep trumping themselves forever. I made that mistake myself once. From it, I realized the importance of limiting the strength of my characters and more importantly that things should be ended before things go out of control. I do not like the solution the writers chose, to forgo continuity and return to the style of years ago when the character development no longer made sense for that. There is nothing to say or do now, but that is why I am still here, too. It could have only been a one time thing, but I cannot help but know that their point was made. Not even continuity is sacred. That alone should've destroyed me and anyone else that expected progress. I did not expect an end, but that was perhaps foolish of me given my logic. Even if they do improve, what then? I wait for them to do it again? It would most undoubtedly get to that point regardless of what you believe in. By now, even expecting DP again is almost folly, given how they've chosen to end this gen, and that even amidst what would've otherwise been a fairly decent idea, they still muck it up and by now, it looks like they can't decide whether they want to be serious or comic. I don't know what it is I expect anymore. If I expect sense, I know I'm never going to get it. This is why I got into fanfiction years ago. I should've taken the hint when Piplup disappeared from active posting. Regardless, I will see this to whatever end it takes me to. If this is to be my last ride, then so be it. I don't even think XY can save this, but I owe it to myself to at least see what it is they do.
    I know how you feel in that regard. Believe me, I like this show as simple, childish, and goofy myself like in OS/early AG/BW (I know, I'm stupid for that, but hear me out). It still needs a TAD bit of maturity that mid-AG+ and DP brought to the table to make it even better. I hated the DP series (it's probably the best, but it didn't work with me that well, since the whole change-over still lingered and the show was getting mature was a tough adjustment for me), but I can't deny with each saga Ash was improving his skills up until BW. With BW, that seems like it's all gone. I myself don't like that change, but BW renewed my interest because I identify with the show a lot when it keeps itself light-hearted nature (yes, not the Unova League BAD, I mean the reg eps, you know?).
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 07:38 PM.

  9. #84
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    I would have liked 4kids to at least do Battle Frontier since it was part of AG, but after that it doesn't matter too much to me. Sure, TR would have been more bearable in DP, but again, it means little.

    I like the PUSA cast for all the DP and BW characters, like Dawn, Paul, Barry, Cilan, Iris, etc....so I can't imagine what 4kids takes on them would be like. I keep having this disturbing feeling that Dawn would have been voiced by Lisa Ortiz...especially since Dawn's dub voice sounds somewhat similar to Lisa Ortiz's characters.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I would have liked 4kids to at least do Battle Frontier since it was part of AG, but after that it doesn't matter too much to me. Sure, TR would have been more bearable in DP, but again, it means little.

    I like the PUSA cast for all the DP and BW characters, like Dawn, Paul, Barry, Cilan, Iris, etc....so I can't imagine what 4kids takes on them would be like. I keep having this disturbing feeling that Dawn would have been voiced by Lisa Ortiz...especially since Dawn's dub voice sounds somewhat similar to Lisa Ortiz's characters.
    True. Iris was kind of "meh...it's okay" when she first started for me, but she's better now. Other than that, I agree.

    Gotta a good point on TRio. Same goes for Brock. Even if Eric Stuart, Rachael Lillis, and Maddie Blaustein were still in the main cast, they'd be playing the flanderized versions of the chars (IMO).

    I loved Bill's Brock in BF, so I can't complain there. Only the DP version sucked to me, but I guess Brock just aged 5-10 years or something so I treat it like that. I think he was still good in his own way, but that's when I developed a really strong preference for Eric's.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    I can understand your sentiments. I take it as another sign that I no longer belong. This whole fandom is rooted in how it was originally. I have said before I left that mentality behind years ago, and as a result, I no longer understand why it is people feel this way. I will not stop liking Pokemon itself because that is a choice I made years ago when I first got into it. I was already "too old" even then, but I got into it anyway. I was probably still a kid at heart. Mediating circumstances changed that. Even though AG and DP were more serious relatively, they were still frivolous in some ways. I even enjoyed the now famous Evil Togepi ep. You might say BW spoiled even what was good for me because now I can deconstruct everything now that it has laid bare all the flaws the anime ever had. I cannot be a little kid anymore, nor do I want to pretend I am. I'm glad that was purged. I may not understand it, but I know I cannot change it.
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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    I can understand your sentiments. I take it as another sign that I no longer belong. This whole fandom is rooted in how it was originally. I have said before I left that mentality behind years ago, and as a result, I no longer understand why it is people feel this way. I will not stop liking Pokemon itself because that is a choice I made years ago when I first got into it. I was already "too old" even then, but I got into it anyway. I was probably still a kid at heart. Mediating circumstances changed that. Even though AG and DP were more serious relatively, they were still frivolous in some ways. I even enjoyed the now famous Evil Togepi ep. You might say BW spoiled even what was good for me because now I can deconstruct everything now that it has laid bare all the flaws the anime ever had. I cannot be a little kid anymore, nor do I want to pretend I am. I'm glad that was purged. I may not understand it, but I know I cannot change it.
    I also enjoyed "Where No Togepi Has Gone Before!" myself. One of my fav DP eps (despite that it was filler).

    Yeah, it really does suck, I totally understand where you're coming from. It's an awful feeling. I felt the way you do now in BW, back in DP. It feels like you're out of place at times and you feel kinda lonely.

    Hopefully X and Y is a more mature series so that you can get back into the swing of things. I'm willing to give a more mature feel series another go. I did like DP all-in-all, but it's just my least favorite of the series (the first half was really rough for me, but I did enjoy the second half greatly).

    I did feel OS had some great emotional moments, though, and Kanto/OI had real uniqueness that make them stand-out to me.

    As for the dub change and each series/generation, it's all preference in the end.

    AG/DP kinda fits the more mature series loving fan (I did like AG and the second half of DP, though, myself), while OS/BW kinda fits the light-hearted, more child-at-heart/childish fan.

    The 4Kids dub tends to work better for those who like lighter voices for males and deeper voices for females with more focus on TRio's scripts and dub BGM, while the TPCi dub tends to work better for those who like deeper voices for males and higher voices for females, want a more uncut/faithful dub, and like less editing.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 08:13 PM.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by SonGoku View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I would have liked 4kids to at least do Battle Frontier since it was part of AG, but after that it doesn't matter too much to me. Sure, TR would have been more bearable in DP, but again, it means little.

    I like the PUSA cast for all the DP and BW characters, like Dawn, Paul, Barry, Cilan, Iris, etc....so I can't imagine what 4kids takes on them would be like. I keep having this disturbing feeling that Dawn would have been voiced by Lisa Ortiz...especially since Dawn's dub voice sounds somewhat similar to Lisa Ortiz's characters.
    True. Iris was kind of "meh...it's okay" when she first started for me, but she's better now. Other than that, I agree.

    Gotta a good point on TRio. Same goes for Brock. Even if Eric Stuart, Rachael Lillis, and Maddie Blaustein were still in the main cast, they'd be playing the flanderized versions of the chars (IMO).

    I loved Bill's Brock in BF, so I can't complain there. Only the DP version sucked to me, but I guess Brock just aged 5-10 years or something so I treat it like that. I think he was still good in his own way, but that's when I developed a really strong preference for Eric's.
    Well if I had my way Brock would have left when AG ended, so we wouldn't have to worry about him being recasted...aside from cameos I guess.

    Take Sarah's Ash voice as to what it is now and place it back in DP, and rewrite TR's dialogue and the dub wouldn't have been so bad. Plus sadly Maddie would have passed either way, so Meowth was going to be recasted by 2008 even if 4kids still dubbed. Sad but true.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SonGoku View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I would have liked 4kids to at least do Battle Frontier since it was part of AG, but after that it doesn't matter too much to me. Sure, TR would have been more bearable in DP, but again, it means little.

    I like the PUSA cast for all the DP and BW characters, like Dawn, Paul, Barry, Cilan, Iris, etc....so I can't imagine what 4kids takes on them would be like. I keep having this disturbing feeling that Dawn would have been voiced by Lisa Ortiz...especially since Dawn's dub voice sounds somewhat similar to Lisa Ortiz's characters.
    True. Iris was kind of "meh...it's okay" when she first started for me, but she's better now. Other than that, I agree.

    Gotta a good point on TRio. Same goes for Brock. Even if Eric Stuart, Rachael Lillis, and Maddie Blaustein were still in the main cast, they'd be playing the flanderized versions of the chars (IMO).

    I loved Bill's Brock in BF, so I can't complain there. Only the DP version sucked to me, but I guess Brock just aged 5-10 years or something so I treat it like that. I think he was still good in his own way, but that's when I developed a really strong preference for Eric's.
    Well if I had my way Brock would have left when AG ended, so we wouldn't have to worry about him being recasted...aside from cameos I guess.

    Take Sarah's Ash voice as to what it is now and place it back in DP, and rewrite TR's dialogue and the dub wouldn't have been so bad. Plus sadly Maddie would have passed either way, so Meowth was going to be recasted by 2008 even if 4kids still dubbed. Sad but true.
    Agreed. I wish Sarah would re-dub the BF and early DP seasons with her later DP seasons and BW voice myself. It was extraordinarily rough, deep, and forced at first, IMO. Never really had a problem with TPCi's voices for the TRio myself at any point other than Jimmy's Meowth in BW (still like the Stuart/Lillis/Blaustein group the most, but they have always been fairly bearable and very similar voices to me in comparison to the protagonists' voices).

    The DP dub would've been significantly better if it had been carried out the way you described it. I wouldn't have minded it at all myself if it was done that way.

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    Default Re: How different would the anime be now if 4Kids still ran the anime and.......

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I would have liked 4kids to at least do Battle Frontier since it was part of AG, but after that it doesn't matter too much to me. Sure, TR would have been more bearable in DP, but again, it means little.

    I like the PUSA cast for all the DP and BW characters, like Dawn, Paul, Barry, Cilan, Iris, etc....so I can't imagine what 4kids takes on them would be like. I keep having this disturbing feeling that Dawn would have been voiced by Lisa Ortiz...especially since Dawn's dub voice sounds somewhat similar to Lisa Ortiz's characters.
    4Kids dubbing Battle Frontier to finish AG would have been kind of nice, but on the bright side, Brock's and especially Ash's new voices showed some good signs of improvements by early DP, which was probably better than trying to get their own voices for the characters right at the start of a new series. Cilan and Iris probably would have been voiced by the same people since their voice actors were used in some of 4Kids' other dubs like Yu-Gi-Oh! GX, 5D's and Zexal, the latter in which they still have their roles in after Konami took over the license. I'm not sure what voice they would have gone for with Paul and Barry. I could have seen Dawn being voiced by Lisa Ortiz had 4Kids continued dubbing that. Since I like Lisa Ortiz, I would have been okay with that, although it would have been really weird to think about Lina Inverse from Slayers every time Dawn spoke in DP. I do like the voices TPCI picked for those three characters though.

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