The dialogue for TRio seemed better to me in 4Kids (while the faithfulness level is the same, I liked that they had less puns/such in 4Kids and alliterations etc. until BW and in eps like "The Treasure is All Mine!" they were grating on me), and the dub music BGM (you know, like the ones 4Kids came up with and were re-used in the TAJ Productions dub but then faded out in the DuArt Film and Video dub) I also prefer from 4Kids. Though, since TAJ used a lot of it, I'd have to say I prefer 4Kids/TAJ's use of the dub BGM whenever the companies replaced the original JPN BGM to DuArt's. Actually, that's THE only thing I liked about TAJ's dub (TPCi's earlier efforts) over DuArt's (TPCi's later efforts). XD.
Other stuff, though, I'll admit is better with TPCi. They don't do the "Americanization" or edits to near the extent 4Kids did, and they do keep more JPN BGM than 4Kids did. Also, there are less stupid errors like the one in "A Fan with a Plan!" and stuff with them.
I have to admit that as of BW, I actually like all the TPCi voices now. I'm really, really surprised that I don't have a problem with them anymore. I can sit down and watch an episode without being bothered by the voices...O_O. They have grown on me, actually. Dunno why, but I feel they are good now. It's no longer a major concern for me the way it was before this saga (though I still prefer the 4Kids VAs myself).
The main difference I feel is that 4Kids really seemed to care about Pokemon (if even in their own messed up way) and put a lot of love into it...you know? :)
Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 29th March 2013 at 09:54 PM.
"TPCi alleged in early 2010 that 4Kids owed it nearly $4.7 million in royalties and other payments, the amount of which was later adjusted to $6.2 million. 4Kids subsequently conducted its own audit of TPCi, reaching quite the opposite conclusion. Though the parties were supposedly making headway in reaching a resolution, the Yu-Gi-Oh! lawsuit and 4Kids’ bankruptcy brought a halt to the parties’ negotiations. Since the end of July 2012 however, talks had resumed, and earlier this month, both parties agreed to settle, with TPCi receiving $1 million."
Full Story: 13 | December | 2012 | In the Name of The Pharaoh - Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters Episodes - Raw and Subbed
I grew up with the 4Kids dub too, which is probably a reason why I prefer the 4Kids cast, and I agree that Team Rocket's dialogue was less cringe-worthy as some of the TPCI dialogue, but I think that there were a lot more benefits in TPCI getting the license than there would have been had 4Kids kept it. There were people at 4Kids who really cared about Pokemon, even though they made some really painfully bad mistakes with it, but at this point, I'm fine with the way TPCI handles the dub for the most part. It isn't perfect, but given all of the accusations against 4Kids with their lawsuits, I think it is just better that TPCI got the license beyond just getting a bit of a more faithful dub.Originally Posted by SonGoku
While I probably would have still ditched the dub for the Japanese version, I certainly would have done so much later if 4kids still did the dubbing. The TRio's awful DP-era dialogue and the way TPCI replaced most of the BGM with their own absolutely horrid cat-walking-over-a-synthesiser music were the things that drove me to seek the original version in the first place.
Of course 4kids have done a lot of really stupid shit too, but at least they knew how to make an entertaining dub. While I like that TPCI's dub is more faithful to the original version, they just never seemed to get the hang of writing dialogue that actually sounds human.
It's kind of amusing to imagine now. It could be exactly like the original series, inaneness and all. I don't think this would be a good thing, but others would disagree with me. I will not deny they were better at making openings, though, but the situation with BW's second dub season would be impossible to avoid regarding how it was handled. That is unless 4kids continued it's trend of being one year behind, then it wouldn't matter, except now that all countries are counting down to X/Y, and it would look strange, other than the matter that they did show the first eps of AG early. Knowing this fandom, that would not be a good sign. (it may still not be a good sign) I would've likely ditched the dub a lot sooner, but there is no telling what they would've done in Battle Frontier or DP. They didn't exactly end where they did in a good place, so I don't think they would've necessarily done a bad job on it, because I know that they at least did well at scripting. At least whenever they didn't decide they should change the meaning for some arbitrary reason. There are a lot of things in DP that I know we would've seen cut out or altered. I shudder to think what they would've done to the Paul/Chimchar plot, or even TG. I will forever defend that DuArt does it better and more faithfully, although I question if that is a quality thing or if it's to save money. (less to edit, less work) You know, I don't think anyone has really asked WHY 4kids insisted on being a year behind. Even if you did want a quality production, it would not take that long. Unless they wanted to plan it all out, because I can see how even dubbing would require some knowledge of what is going to happen ahead of time. The current dubbers and the JP production have a much closer relationship (probably due to the merger, and it's now an international entity), so they don't have this problem. Given the merger still happened and 4kids was still here, would that still have happened? Would they even bother to speed up production to be closer to the raw? I probably said stuff like this before, but still, despite what people think, I think we are better now than we were then. The show only sucks because the raw sucks now. Even with 4kids trying to disguise the matter, it would just look infantile.
EDIT: I thought it would be prudent to note something. If I use the raw dates from when the original dub began and ended (Sept. 8, 1998-July 8, 2006), they did it for 7 years and 10 months. The current dub began on Sept. 8, 2006 and today is March 30, 2013. That is 6 years and 6 months and 22 days. It will be another year and a few months before the current dub matches 4kids. (yet they now equal each other in terms of how many seasons they've done; 8 for 4kids and the current season is the 8th for DuArt) I wonder what will happen then. Given how confusing this is, I wanted to do a raw ep count, but it would be too complicated to find where an ep was not dubbed and subtract it from the total, not to mention what is and is not considered a special. The only way I can explain why we're in the 8th season of the current dub now is both that the seasons were shorter and that Battle Frontier was rushed through in order to get to our current closeness to the raw
Last edited by Dragon Char; 30th March 2013 at 09:57 AM.
Step into the Fairy circle
What bothered me most in DP seasons was the voice acting, and the DuArt replacement BGM in S11-13. It's funny, because I did not mind the voice acting in the BF (well, except Ash and Max's voices-- never got used to them), or in the BW seasons (where I'm fine with all of them). I hate how deep/gruff/tough TPCi made two out of three of the protagonists sound...I was so used to hearing them sound lighter than this was my toughest arc to solder through. Ash and Brock's DP dub voices in particular were my toughest to acclimate too. *shrugs*
I'm fine with Sarah's Ash now in BW since, IMO, she's using a significantly lighter voice, but back then...just not my cup of tea. Not as bad as her voice in the late BF, but still hard to like for me.
Though, I've noticed TPCi doesn't seem to mind letting the older 4Kids music staff/additional voices/others return to the series. Loeffler came back, so many of the additional 4Kids VAs came back...it's confusing what's been going on with the dub.
Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 10:01 AM.
My point was that by now, they have nearly been around as long as each other. I don't doubt that they will eventually last as long and even exceed the time 4kids dubbed it. I suppose that will not change that some of us still watched since the original, and they will remain adamant about it. (or maybe they stopped watching in the middle of that era or by the time it ended and refuse to accept anyone else) I can't really defend the current dub other than it has less unnecessary edits and they are more lax about content. (again, unsure if this is quality or money issues) This is not the dub's fault, but that the show itself changed. That is why I find it both amusing and horrifying to imagine now. We would come full circle, for better or worse, if 4kids somehow was still doing this.
Step into the Fairy circle
Don't they all eat sandwiches in BW now, anyway? Well, 4Kids wouldn't have needed to edit those out anymore if they were still dubbing the show, so that's one thing that would've actually been alright with them as far as I can see it right now.
The show has indeed changed, though, in general. A LOT of people do not like the BW Series for some reason who liked the AG/DP series.
I just like the 4Kids dub more myself. Maybe its the cheesiness, the childishness, the emotion, the voice acting...I don't know. I feel it was a nice show regardless of whether it was a good dub. lol.
Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 11:29 AM.
They'd probably take out "the 10 year old Ash Ketchum!".
Didn't they stop making them in mid-Johto?
IIRC, TPCi did have a 10th anniversary CD with different songs from both dubs, though. I haven't seen anything since then.
So they went from Kanto-mid-Johto and in the late Hoenn-Battle Frontier seasons.
Overall, I just prefer the 4Kids dub. Can't explain why, I guess. For all the stupid edits and crap they did when compared to TPCi, they could really make me laugh, cry, and feel the characters emotions', almost like they were real human beings. Like friends you could really relate to. There's an innate charm to that I just loved so much. I wouldn't even mind 4Kids plastering those Seasons 7 and 8 sandwiches everywhere if it meant regaining that genuine love/care vibe they seemed to give off (ok, I'm exaggerating, but you get the point).
TPCi's dub has never really done that for me to the same extent. I'm sure it's just as epic a dub, or even better, but I just don't get that feeling from them as much myself. For example, Veronica's Ash always had these little quirks like the "WAH" noise, and came off as really genuine whenever she spoke. Sarah's Ash (went from my worst voice in the current dub to my favorite now) is very inconsistent on this. Occasionally she lapses into this bored, dry, sarcastic tone, and it just makes me feel bored watching the show. Other times she's very emotional, which I love. Eric Stuart's James has the horse-whinnying laugh and the "EEHHEEHE!" sound = :3...Jimmy's retained a lot of Eric's satire (very happy about that), and he was easily one of my favorite voices from TPCi's dub when the switch first occurred, yet he's really nasally and doesn't emote to the same extent Stuart could. That's just on the voice acting half of it. With the dub music, it felt like they were pouring every ounce of effort into it. They had some great music composers, IMO, if nothing else.
I know it sounds cheesy, foolish even to a lot of those who like dubs as faithful to the source material, but that's how I personally feel on the matter.
Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 01:23 PM.
I personally don't care who runs or voices the characters/anime. As long as they put on a good show. I never really understood why that was an issue.
I think for me personally why this really mattered, though, is when I saw Veronica Taylor (Ash/May/Delia in 4Kids dub) and Rachael Lillis (Misty/Jessie in 4Kids dub) crying at the panel in 2006 when they said they were not allowed to work on the current dub for whatever reason. I've seen Taylor and Stuart discuss the event at recent cons...they still seemed pretty bummed out about it all, but they say they are both grateful they got to be a part of the show and are thankful for the experience they had. It really just broke my heart, I guess, to see that group of people who worked so hard for so long getting tossed aside like trash. I've moved on, but I just won't forget the people and the company (even despite their bad rep) who helped bring the show to the US/UK/Australia/other English-speaking countries, I guess. :)
Anyway, I've kinda made my point, so I should really stop. XD.
Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 30th March 2013 at 01:47 PM.