Thread: Handsome to appear soon?

Originally Posted by Silktree

The number of people at SPPf who are convinced that Team Plasma are confirmed to come back is staggering. They say that Looker could only be interested in them rather than Team Rocket. Nevermind the fact that he works for the International Police and should be especially interested in the organization with international activities that we know is still at large, as opposed to the one that hasn't done anything so far. Team Rocket being back in Kanto isn't an argument against them since there is no obvious reason why Ash would stay in Unova after the league. Finally, we've been promised that Team Rocket will return, whereas nothing at all has been said about Team Plasma.

I presume you're Kein over there?

The writers have had ample time to do something with Team Plasma, but they didn't use it. Why wait until after the league? As soon as Generation VI is announced, which should happen soon, the incentive to promote the Unova games will be heavily decreased. If anything, I see the writers creating original plots even more than they've been doing so far.

Why wait after until the League, you ask? Easy. The League is when Team Plasma really kicked things into gear in BW1. Have Ash be about to win the tournament, then N crashes it and denies him victory (trolololol), and thus begins the TP filler arc. They didn't bother doing anything before the League because their debut was being saved for it, and their plot was being saved for after that. As for the subject of the incentive to promote Unova games heavily decreasing, one can already ask why they intend to promote Genesect alongside a Gen 6 Pokemon rather than simply shooing it away like Meloetta and focusing solely on the new Pokemon.

Originally Posted by Zistal

I presume you're Kein over there?

Yep. It's pretty easy to tell since almost everyone else there disagrees with me.

The League is when Team Plasma really kicked things into gear in BW1.

That was the climax which was preceded by many appearances throughout Black and White, and wasn't followed by anything important. Besides, B2W2 are certainly more relevant to Season 2 than their predecessors are.

Have Ash be about to win the tournament, then N crashes it and denies him victory (trolololol), and thus begins the TP filler arc.

Do you honestly see that happening? That would only happen if the writers prioritized Team Plasma over the league, and there is no reason to think that. If they want Ash to be denied of his victory, that's what his rivals are for (Virgil in particular).

As for the subject of the incentive to promote Unova games heavily decreasing, one can already ask why they intend to promote Genesect alongside a Gen 6 Pokemon rather than simply shooing it away like Meloetta and focusing solely on the new Pokemon.

Meloetta wasn't shooed away; it was given 13 episodes of screentime that culminated in a movie-like arc. If anything, I'd understand featuring Team Plasma and Genesect in an anime arc, but that's unlikely to happen since Genesect will appear in Movie 16. The movies have never involved game characters; even Giovanni only appeared in the prologue of Movie 1.

We both agree that Movie 16 is going to revolve around the Generation VI star. Genesect will most likely have a secondary role so that something can be distributed before the new games are released. Perhaps Genesect's ancient counterpart will be revealed, but I see no reason why that would necessitate involving Team Plasma. Either way, Looker's appearance is related to the show itself since his VA said that he will appear early next year.

Originally Posted by Silktree

Originally Posted by Zistal

The League is when Team Plasma really kicked things into gear in BW1.

That was the climax which was preceded by many appearances throughout Black and White. Besides, B2W2 are certainly more relevant to Season 2 than their predecessors are.

Have Ash be about to win the tournament, then N crashes it and denies him victory (trolololol), and thus begins the TP filler arc.

Do you honestly see that happening? That would only happen if the writers prioritized Team Plasma over the league, and there is no reason to think that. If they want Ash to be denied of his victory, that's what his rivals are for (Virgil in particular).

As for the subject of the incentive to promote Unova games heavily decreasing, one can already ask why they intend to promote Genesect alongside a Gen 6 Pokemon rather than simply shooing it away like Meloetta and focusing solely on the new Pokemon.

Meloetta wasn't shooed away; it was given 13 episodes of screentime that culminated in a movie-like arc. If anything, I'd understand featuring Team Plasma and Genesect in an anime arc, but that's unlikely to happen since Genesect will appear in Movie 16. The movies have never involved game characters; even Giovanni only appeared in the prologue of Movie 1.

We both agree that Movie 16 is going to revolve around the Generation VI star. Genesect will most likely have a secondary role so that something can be distributed before the new games are released. Perhaps Genesect's ancient counterpart will be revealed, but I see no reason why that would necessitate involving Team Plasma. Either way, Looker's appearance is related to the show itself since his VA said that he will appear early next year.

If anything, I think either one of two things will happen in the league, either A. (which is the most likely) Ash looses to Virgil's army of Eeveelutions, or B. N appears in front of Ash near the end of the league and triggers a Team Plasma arc. Just because Looker will be making a possible appearance does not mean that Team Plasma will appear, if anything, it can just be him arresting some filler villain that has nothing to do with anything, followed by massive amounts of filler episodes until the beginning of Gen 6.

I do agree with both of you that Movie 16 will less likely involve Genesect, and more likely focus entirely around a Gen 6 Pokemon (likely it's Lucario/Zoroark clone) with Genesect being pushed to a bare minimum side role, if not at all in order to make more room for the Gen 6 Pokemon.

Originally Posted by Silktree

Yep. It's pretty easy to tell since almost everyone else there disagrees with me.

It was your posting style and join date over there that made me wonder.

That was the climax which was preceded by many appearances throughout Black and White. Besides, B2W2 are certainly more relevant to Season 2 than their predecessors are.

To us it was the climax, but to Team Plasma it was only the beginning. As a grunt notes, they tried to not be too open like Rocket and Galactic were. The assault on the League was when their liberation plans were about to really happen; everything up until that point was mere preparation.

Do you honestly see that happening? That would only happen if the writers prioritized Team Plasma over the league, and there is no reason to think that. If they want Ash to be denied of his victory, that's what his rivals are for (Virgil in particular).

I really don't know if I see that happening. Frankly, I'm having trouble predicting what will happen period. I thought Virgil and Gen 6 Eeveelution would be ones to defeat Ash, but after CoroCoro failed to even hint at a Pokemon reveal next month... As for prioritizing Team Plasma over the League, I don't see why they can't happen. With what Trip's match has been reduced to and how a filler episode will follow it, it's clear they don't seem to care too much.

Meloetta wasn't shooed away; it was given 13 episodes of screentime that culminated in a movie-like arc. If anything, I'd understand featuring Team Plasma and Genesect in an anime arc, but that's unlikely to happen since Genesect will appear in Movie 16. The movies have never involved game characters; even Giovanni only appeared in the prologue of Movie 1.

It was shooed away compared to other Mythical Pokemon; no matter how you cut it in the end an anime arc just isn't the same as the movies everyone else got. Similar, yes, but not the same. I wonder how they compare when it comes to budgets and merchandise...

We both agree that Movie 16 is going to revolve around the Generation VI star. Genesect will most likely have a secondary role so that something can be distributed before the new games are released. Perhaps Genesect's ancient counterpart will be revealed, but I see no reason why that would necessitate involving Team Plasma. Either way, Looker's appearance is related to the show itself since his VA said that he will appear early next year.

I've been thinking it could be Genesect's ancient counterpart that will be revealed. Why else let Genesect costar? Why else open up the Team Plasma can of worms by featuring it? If they wanted Gen V distribution fodder, they could have saved that upcoming Victini event or used Jirachi or Deoxys just like Mew and Celebi were in the past. And yeah, Looker's appearance has to be related to the show itself. I don't think I've seriously seen anyone believe he'll have anything to do with the movie (though that would be nice).

Originally Posted by Zistal

It was your posting style and join date over there that made me wonder.

I post there once in a blue moon when I see misinformation being spread like wildfire.

To us it was the climax, but to Team Plasma it was only the beginning.

You could say that about any evil team; they always have plans that get foiled by the player in the climax. There was still a lot of buildup throughout the Unova journey, but the anime did something else entirely.

As a grunt notes, they tried to not be too open like Rocket and Galactic were. The assault on the League was when their liberation plans were about to really happen; everything up until that point was mere preparation.

By that logic the entire plot was mere preparation for something that never happened. Do you expect the anime to outdo the games and have this epic saga about the ramifications of Pokémon being separated from their trainers?

I thought Virgil and Gen 6 Eeveelution would be ones to defeat Ash, but after CoroCoro failed to even hint at a Pokemon reveal next month...

I don't know what is going to happen with Virgil's Eevee, but I never expected CoroCoro to foreshadow next month's potential announcement. There have been many examples where CoroCoro revealed a new Pokémon without previously alluding to it, so let's wait until next month before we discard the theory. Even without a new evolution, I see Eevee being Ash's downfall.

As for prioritizing Team Plasma over the League, I don't see why they can't happen. With what Trip's match has been reduced to and how a filler episode will follow it, it's clear they don't seem to care too much.

Trip is hardly the only rival and a lot of fans are glad about him losing early. The Axew episode will involve Virgil (as evidenced by Umbreon being the episode's featured Pokémon), so it will most likely lead to something (development for Virgil and/or Ash's Pokémon).

It was shooed away compared to other Mythical Pokemon; no matter how you cut it in the end an anime arc just isn't the same as the movies everyone else got. Similar, yes, but not the same. I wonder how they compare when it comes to budgets and merchandise...

Blame Game Freak for designing four Mythical Pokémon for a generation that will only last three years. I think that the anime writers handled the Meloetta situation well enough.

Why else let Genesect costar?

Because there is almost always a second star, and Genesect needs to be showcased somehow.

Why else open up the Team Plasma can of worms by featuring it?

Genesect shouldn't be banned from the anime because of Team Plasma. It existed long before them and the person who resurrected it is an unimportant scientist. He could easily be replaced with an anime-exclusive character (Dr. Zager comes to mind), or the resurrection won't be brought up at all. We don't need to see a retread of Movie 1.

If they wanted Gen V distribution fodder, they could have saved that upcoming Victini event or used Jirachi or Deoxys just like Mew and Celebi were in the past.

Victini, Jirachi and Deoxys have already been featured in movies. Genesect deserves something regardless of the writers' plans for Team Plasma, or lack thereof.

Originally Posted by Silktree

You could say that about any evil team; they always have plans that get foiled by the player in the climax. There was still a lot of buildup throughout the Unova journey, but the anime did something else entirely.

Well, any team except Team Rocket. At least in Gen 1. They never really had a grand plan with a climax unless you count Silph Co., which was really just another one of their criminal activities.

By that logic the entire plot was mere preparation for something that never happened.

Technically half of that something happened, namely acquiring Reshiram/Zekrom and defeating the Pokemon League.

Do you expect the anime to outdo the games and have this epic saga about the ramifications of Pokémon being separated from their trainers?

Of course not. I expect Team Plasma to appear, but the ramifications to be largely glossed over. We're looking at a way to stall until Gen 6 arrives, not truly adapt the games' plot.

I don't know what is going to happen with Virgil's Eevee, but I never expected CoroCoro to foreshadow next month's potential announcement. There have been many examples where CoroCoro revealed a new Pokémon without previously alluding to it, so let's wait until next month before we discard the theory.

Zoroark was foreshadowed. The Therian Forms were foreshadowed. Genesect was foreshadowed. Why wouldn't a new Pokemon be this time?

Even without a new evolution, I see Eevee being Ash's downfall.

I can see this happening too. It would be pretty reminiscent of that Meowth back in Hoenn.

Blame Game Freak for designing four Mythical Pokémon for a generation that will only last three years. I think that the anime writers handled the Meloetta situation well enough.

Honestly even with four Mythical Pokemon, they could have all been featured. The blame rests with Zoroark for starring in the movie that could have belonged to Victini (Just like Manaphy starred in 2006's movie), resulting in Victini being pushed back and someone having to be cut.

Because there is almost always a second star, and Genesect needs to be showcased somehow.

Meloetta shows Genesect didn't need to be showcased in a movie. As you mentioned earlier, it could have gotten an anime arc.

Genesect shouldn't be banned from the anime because of Team Plasma. It existed long before them and the person who resurrected it is an unimportant scientist. He could easily be replaced with an anime-exclusive character (Dr. Zager comes to mind), or the resurrection won't be brought up at all. We don't need to see a retread of Movie 1.

From what I can tell, Genesect's resurrection and modification was a group effort by Team Plasma. That scientist was just the only person who stuck around after N pulled the plug on the project.

Regardless, removing TP from its backstory is easier said than done. All Pokedex entries, official site articles, merchandise, etc, explicitly refer to the group. They're an intrinsic part of its backstory.

Victini, Jirachi and Deoxys have already been featured in movies.

Jirachi and Deoxys were already featured, but so were Mew and Celebi. With Victini I thought of it being purely a distribution unrelated to the plot, similar to how Deoxys was given out at Darkrai's movie.

Originally Posted by Zistal

Regardless, removing TP from its backstory is easier said than done. All Pokedex entries, official site articles, merchandise, etc, explicitly refer to the group. They're an intrinsic part of its backstory.

Even so, Plasma's role in Genesect's backstory could pretty much be replaced by an mad scientist of group of mad scientists you could come up with. Genesect doesn't even tie into Plasma's free-the-Pokemon MO that much. I don't think it would be that hard to replace them.

And it's not like it would be the first time the anime staff changed a legend's story for the sake of their own story.

Originally Posted by Zistal

Of course not. I expect Team Plasma to appear, but the ramifications to be largely glossed over. We're looking at a way to stall until Gen 6 arrives, not truly adapt the games' plot.

They don't need Team Plasma for a way to stall until the next generation. They have Team Rocket, and there will be only be a handful of villain-related episodes.

Zoroark was foreshadowed. The Therian Forms were foreshadowed. Genesect was foreshadowed. Why wouldn't a new Pokemon be this time?

For the same reason that CoroCoro didn't foreshadow Kecleon, Wailmer, Azurill, Blaziken, Origin Forme, Sky Forme or Resolute Form. Meloetta and Black and White Kyurem weren't even revealed by CoroCoro.

Honestly even with four Mythical Pokemon, they could have all been featured. The blame rests with Zoroark for starring in the movie that could have belonged to Victini (Just like Manaphy starred in 2006's movie), resulting in Victini being pushed back and someone having to be cut.

Movie 13 would not have worked with Celebi and Victini, and we also know that Junichi Masuda wanted Victini to be distributed via Wi-Fi first. Genesect being featured in Movie 16 is akin to Celebi and the legendary beasts being featured in Movie 13; there doesn't have to be anything more to it. I wouldn't be surprised if another old Pokémon were featured, too, just to add spice to the plot.

Meloetta shows Genesect didn't need to be showcased in a movie. As you mentioned earlier, it could have gotten an anime arc.

But the fact that it is getting a movie instead doesn't support the Team Plasma theory. An anime arc would be far more appropriate for promoting game characters.

From what I can tell, Genesect's resurrection and modification was a group effort by Team Plasma. That scientist was just the only person who stuck around after N pulled the plug on the project.

I don't see your point. The movie is most likely going to deal with Genesect after the resurrection.

Regardless, removing TP from its backstory is easier said than done. All Pokedex entries, official site articles, merchandise, etc, explicitly refer to the group. They're an intrinsic part of its backstory.

They're also an intrinsic part of the Tao trio's story, but that fact didn't affect the previous two movies at all. Genesect having a different creator in the anime wouldn't be weirder than Team Rocket being the dominant organization in Unova, which has been the case so far.

With Victini I thought of it being purely a distribution unrelated to the plot, similar to how Deoxys was given out at Darkrai's movie.

The movie needs more than one Pokémon to focus on, and one of them may as well be the distributed Pokémon. Also, recycling a movie promotion from two years ago would be pretty lazy; at least Deoxys hadn't been distributed to Diamond and Pearl before the secondary Movie 10 promotion (which was built around the anime's 10th anniversary).

Looker is finally appearing in Best Wishes? This can only mean one thing, lock up your frozen goods, the Vanillite Gang is back!

Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu

Even so, Plasma's role in Genesect's backstory could pretty much be replaced by an mad scientist of group of mad scientists you could come up with. Genesect doesn't even tie into Plasma's free-the-Pokemon MO that much. I don't think it would be that hard to replace them.

And it's not like it would be the first time the anime staff changed a legend's story for the sake of their own story.

If they wanted to replace TP in its backstory, then why does official material keep referring to the group? Is it out of sync with the writers' intentions?

Originally Posted by Silktree

They don't need Team Plasma for a way to stall until the next generation. They have Team Rocket, and there will be only be a handful of villain-related episodes.

I'd expect PWT being the center of the filler arc before Team Rocket. Rocket has already had their time to shine, they went back to Kanto, and their recent plot was constantly referred to as the last. They'll be back as recurring villains eventually I'm sure, but another big plot so soon? Doubtful.

For the same reason that CoroCoro didn't foreshadow Kecleon, Wailmer, Azurill, Blaziken, Origin Forme, Sky Forme or Resolute Form. Meloetta and Black and White Kyurem weren't even revealed by CoroCoro.

Fair enough. Maybe they could be saving it for Jump Festa.

Movie 13 would not have worked with Celebi and Victini,

Why couldn't it have worked? Too many Mythical Pokemon?

and we also know that Junichi Masuda wanted Victini to be distributed via Wi-Fi first.

That sounds familiar. I can't remember where it was said, though.

Genesect being featured in Movie 16 is akin to Celebi and the legendary beasts being featured in Movie 13; there doesn't have to be anything more to it. I wouldn't be surprised if another old Pokémon were featured, too, just to add spice to the plot.

If another old Pokemon is featured too, I imagine it will either be the Birds or the Lake Trio seeing as the Regis and Beasts were featured in Lucario's and Zoroark's movies.

I don't see your point. The movie is most likely going to deal with Genesect after the resurrection.

No point there. Just me nitpicking about Genesect's origins in the games.

They're also an intrinsic part of the Tao trio's story, but that fact didn't affect the previous two movies at all. Genesect having a different creator in the anime wouldn't be weirder than Team Rocket being the dominant organization in Unova, which has been the case so far.

The difference between the Tao Trio and Genesect is that while Team Plasma is merely involved with the former, they're the outright creators of the latter. While I can see it getting a different creator in the anime, it would still be quite a weird discrepancy when everything but the anime says Team Plasma were its creators instead.

December can't get here fast enough. Hopefully this whole matter with Team Plasma will be resolved then and there with the initial plot details about the next movie.

Originally Posted by Zistal

If they wanted to replace TP in its backstory, then why does official material keep referring to the group? Is it out of sync with the writers' intentions?

So far Genesect has only been promoted in connection to the games, aside from a very brief trailer. Only after December will we see anime-related mentions of Genesect.

I'd expect PWT being the center of the filler arc before Team Rocket.

Yes.

Rocket has already had their time to shine, they went back to Kanto, and their recent plot was constantly referred to as the last.

We were supposed to consider the possibility that it was their last mission, but the only definitive description given about Operation Tempest was that it was Unova's "biggest crisis" and Team Rocket's last mission in that region.

I don't know about you, but I don't expect Ash to stay in Unova now that every important location has been covered. The World Tournament cups could easily be moved to another region.

They'll be back as recurring villains eventually I'm sure, but another big plot so soon? Doubtful.

Writing them off the show until the next series doesn't really make sense. If anything, I see them being brought for closure, but even if the writers want to keep them around for a good while, that is all the more the reason not to leave their fate up in the air for over a year.

Why couldn't it have worked? Too many Mythical Pokemon?

Celebi and Victini are too similar to share a movie. There needed to be an ambiguously bad Pokémon to cause a conflict.

That sounds familiar. I can't remember where it was said, though.

Masusa wrote it on his blog.

If another old Pokemon is featured too, I imagine it will either be the Birds or the Lake Trio seeing as the Regis and Beasts were featured in Lucario's and Zoroark's movies.

The writers don't follow patterns that much. I was thinking more along the lines of Mewtwo, but I think it would be a better idea to feature it in the anime with Team Rocket. It wouldn't have much of a role in the movie.

The difference between the Tao Trio and Genesect is that while Team Plasma is merely involved with the former, they're the outright creators of the latter.

They merely resurrected it. If Movie 16 focuses on Genesect's ancient past, it won't really matter who enhanced it.

While I can see it getting a different creator in the anime, it would still be quite a weird discrepancy when everything but the anime says Team Plasma were its creators instead.

Everything but the anime also says that Team Rocket never had a role in Unova. The anime also linked Mewtwo to Team Rocket, which was never implied in the games.

December can't get here fast enough. Hopefully this whole matter with Team Plasma will be resolved then and there with the initial plot details about the next movie.

I mainly want to know where Ash will go to after the league. I'd like to see a new poster like the one released for Season 2, which will be outdated by the end of the league.

Originally Posted by Winterdaze

Looker is finally appearing in Best Wishes? This can only mean one thing, lock up your frozen goods, the Vanillite Gang is back!

Why can I actually see this happening.

And why do I actually want to see it happening a little bit.

Plasma dan's fate was pretty much sealed with Movie 14 and 15, i prefer this to evolve Looker hunting down Team Rocket rather than some random filler villain ;P

I would'nt be surprised if this does re-introduce TP. I mean the anime has been randomly doing things lately. Hopefully this is it.

Originally Posted by ♥Lady Marie♥

I would'nt be surprised if this does re-introduce TP. I mean the anime has been randomly doing things lately. Hopefully this is it.

If they did what would left for them to do the climax movie 14 was reminiscent of BW and Kyurem's ability to switch between white Kyurem and black Kyurem in movie 15 pretty much kills Neo team Plasma's chances of appearing, like i said this will probably involve TR or a random filler villain.