Thread: Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha

.......Unova's done. The Unova league should be up in december, while it supposed to end in January. After this, Ash have to leave Unova.
That's all, it's too late to show those episodes, and it's best that ALL of Japan forget about it and move on. PROMISES CAN BE BROKEN!!!

No, it hasn't been confirmed that Ash will leave Unova after the League. That's just assumption on your part.

And since BW is supposed to last until August or early September 2013, and seeing as there are still places, characters, and elements of both Black & White and Black 2 & White 2 left unadapted, there's more than enough Unova left to fill that time.

Oh, and as long as the preview for BW023 keeps running after BW022, no-one in Japan is forgetting.

Originally Posted by SammyW27

Okay, how about "A NATIONAL TRAGEDY THAT CAUSED SO MUCH DEATH, DESTRUCTION AND SADNESS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN A STORYLINE IN A CARTOON BASED ON KIDS' GAMES WILL EVER BE!"

That sound better?

That's a very true statement but it's not a good answer to why the episodes won't ever air, because the disaster was why they were postponed, but it has nothing to do with the episodes themselves. This isn't the Porygon incident here, where the episode was the direct cause of the problem and thus was banned forever. There is no reason that, after a long time has passed since this natural disaster, they can't air those episodes. They don't need to have a disclaimer mentioning their postponement or the disaster at all, they can just air them.

Originally Posted by Zistal

I need no evidence; it's common sense.

Right, you kinda lost cred with that statement, but I'll respond to the rest of your post anyway.

The longer time goes on, the less the writers will be inclined to trying to bring back a long-gone plot that will just get easier and easier to ignore in favor of new ones.

....What the hell do the writers have to do with anything? The airing of those episodes is entirely up to the people at TV Tokyo, not the writing staff. Oh, wait, you're probably one of the many under the false impression that the two-parter was the start of a big plot with Team Plamsa that got scrapped by the writers after the postponement. Er, NO. The two-parter was the conclusion of the Team Rocket plot that had been going on up to that point; Team Plasma were essentially special guest stars. Afterwards, things would have gone the same as always, with Team Rocket back in white and only Dr. Zager left over from the first arc. Heck, up to the Nimbasa Subway episodes were already well into production before the disaster postponed that two-parter. Nothing would have changed if the two-parter had aired.

By the time the League ends and there will be even the *slightest* inclination to bring back the episodes, we'll be near March and the 2nd anniversary of the very disaster that got them canceled out of sensitivity in the first place. ...No comment on the idea of them airing after BW is finished.

Except that BW doesn't end after the League, it ends at the end of Summer in 2013 following the 16th movie.

Oh boy, time for round #2671 of Gen 6 discussion/arguing *ding*! As I mentioned earlier, we are steadfastly approaching the League. Additionally, Meloetta and its theoretical movie were tossed away as Genesect was mysteriously revealed far in advance of the proper time. Given past League air times and the recent confirmation that Masuda plans things out with the movie and anime producers; these can only mean one thing: Gen 6 will be announced next February, the next movie will begin advertising it, and new games will come in September. At that point I doubt the writers would be concerned with focusing on old content that was never even introduced.

I hate to break this to you, but Gennesect is a Gen 5 Pokemon, NOT a Gen 6 Pokemon. Created by Team Plasma, at that.

Also, last I checked, Masuda was unsure about making a Gen 6 yet since he didn't think the 3DS had a substantial enough consumer base.

And there you go again with "the writers". The writers don't mean crap in whether or not the episodes air.

See Dogasu's humongous article. There's no way I can try saying more than it.

You mean the one where he's under the impression the episodes need to be retconned in order to air? No thanks.

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

....What the hell do the writers have to do with anything? The airing of those episodes is entirely up to the people at TV Tokyo, not the writing staff. Oh, wait, you're probably one of the many under the false impression that the two-parter was the start of a big plot with Team Plamsa that got scrapped by the writers after the postponement. Er, NO. The two-parter was the conclusion of the Team Rocket plot that had been going on up to that point; Team Plasma were essentially special guest stars. Afterwards, things would have gone the same as always, with Team Rocket back in white and only Dr. Zager left over from the first arc. Heck, up to the Nimbasa Subway episodes were already well into production before the disaster postponed that two-parter. Nothing would have changed if the two-parter had aired.

TV Tokyo decides if the episodes can air; the writers decide if they will. And I've been aware that the two-parter wasn't the start of an arc for a long time now (though it would have served to introduce Team Plasma, thus possibly leading to new arcs later down the line).

Except that BW doesn't end after the League, it ends at the end of Summer in 2013 following the 16th movie.

And by that time it would be too late. Once the League is over, they'll be in the 2nd anniversary season of the disaster which means showing the episodes and reminding people is a big no-go. Once that time of the year is over, they'll be nearing August/September and the end of this series, at which point Plasma will be deader than disco and they will have absolutely no reason to bring up the episodes ever again.

I hate to break this to you, but Gennesect is a Gen 5 Pokemon, NOT a Gen 6 Pokemon. Created by Team Plasma, at that.

Also, last I checked, Masuda was unsure about making a Gen 6 yet since he didn't think the 3DS had a substantial enough consumer base.

And there you go again with "the writers". The writers don't mean crap in whether or not the episodes air.

And Genesect was revealed far in advance of the proper time, meaning it is not the movie's real star. That role will go to a Gen 6 Pokemon who will be revealed in February, whom Genesect may or may not be related to...

Masuda is not unsure. That was nothing more than an off-handed comment from him or something only the interviewer thought. He has expressed heavy interest in the 3DS' features, released HarmoKnight for it, and made the Dream Radar app.

The writers do mean crap. They're the people who write the series, and thus would decide whether the damn episodes have a reason to air or not.

You mean the one where he's under the impression the episodes need to be retconned in order to air? No thanks.

If you wish to ignore a very informative article simply because its author believes the episodes would need to be retconned to air, then your loss.

Originally Posted by Zistal

TV Tokyo decides if the episodes can air; the writers decide if they will.

.....No, they don't.

The writers' job is to write episodes. That's it. They wrote the two-parter already; their work with it is finished.

they'll be nearing August/September and the end of this series, at which point Plasma will be deader than disco and they will have absolutely no reason to bring up the episodes ever again.

Filling in a plot hole that absolutely no effort has been made into pretending doesn't exist isn't a reason?

And Genesect was revealed far in advance of the proper time, meaning it is not the movie's real star. That role will go to a Gen 6 Pokemon who will be revealed in February, whom Genesect may or may not be related to...

First, how was it "far in advance of the proper time"? It was a Unova Pokemon who was already found within Black & White two years ago, and it got revealed during the release of Black 2 & White 2 and the moment where it appeared in the teaser for the 16th movie.

Secondly, you are making pure assumptions here about Gen 6 and it's Pokemon. We have no proof that's coming next year.

They're the people who write the series, and thus would decide whether the damn episodes have a reason to air or not.

Once again, no. They write the series, and that's it. Everything that happens past the scripting phase is out of their hands.

Tell me, what was the "reason" the writers had for airing "Rougela's Christmas" and "Cold as Iwark" between Ash returning to Pallet Town and the episode where Mewtwo escaped? Why was that a particularly good time to air them, two months off from December?

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

.....No, they don't.

The writers' job is to write episodes. That's it. They wrote the two-parter already; their work with it is finished.

And they will write the episodes or arc that will give a reason for the two-parter to be aired. No writer support for Plasma; no reason to air their episodes. And that's assuming they won't just dump the episodes and come up with a new introduction for the group if there is support, which in my opinion would make a lot of sense as they won't be bogged down by that disaster anymore.

Filling in a plot hole that absolutely no effort has been made into pretending doesn't exist isn't a reason?

A hole that they've successfully ignored for over 1.5 years now. It's just the like the GS Ball, they don't care.

First, how was it "far in advance of the proper time"? It was a Unova Pokemon who was already found within Black & White two years ago, and it got revealed during the release of Black 2 & White 2 and the moment where it appeared in the teaser for the 16th movie.

Secondly, you are making pure assumptions here about Gen 6 and it's Pokemon. We have no proof that's coming next year.

Oh dear... You don't know how this works, do you?

February 2007. Darkrai revealed. "Dialga VS Palkia" movie title changed to Dialga VS Palkia VS Darkrai.
February 2008. Shaymin revealed. "Giratina and the Sky's Bouquet" movie titled changed to Giratina and the Sky's Bouquet: Shaymin.
February 2009. Arceus revealed. "To a Conquering Spacetime" movie title changed to Arceus: To a Conquering Spacetime
February 2010. Zoroark revealed. "Ruler of Illusions: Z" movie title changed to Ruler of Illusions: Zoroark.
February 2012. Keldeo revealed. "Kyurem VS The Sacred Swordsman" movie title changed to Kyurem VS The Sacred Swordsman: Keldeo.

Noticing something here? The real star is almost always saved for February. The only exceptions are Victini and Genesect, both of whom were revealed with the teasers for their movies. Now before you cry that then is just like what happened with Victini; it's not. Victini was revealed as part of Gen 5's hype train, distributed to the games as incentive, had its special signature move V-Create saved for the movie, and had the mascots of Gen 5 along with a dual movie gimmick to fall back on in place of a new star. Genesect was randomly distributed 2 months after BW2 came out (Keldeo somewhat filled Victini's role as an early incentive), all of its in-game content was unlocked then and there, and now there are no legendaries or unused gimmicks to fall back on. There is nothing left to show but something new. This combined with being so close to the League as I already mentioned, is blatant foreshadowing of Gen 6.

Once again, no. They write the series, and that's it. Everything that happens past the scripting phase is out of their hands.

And even so, the producers or whoever it is who plans things out need a reason to air the episodes.

Tell me, what was the "reason" the writers had for airing "Rougela's Christmas" and "Cold as Iwark" between Ash returning to Pallet Town and the episode where Mewtwo escaped? Why was that a particularly good time to air them, two months off from December?

'
You got me. I can't answer that question. I can; however, note that those episodes are nothing like the Plasma ones and as such didn't have a negative aura about them. They're just like the fishing episode in that regard... Episodes that were eventually aired because their postponement was collateral damage. I can also note that it only took a year for them to air. It goes without saying.

Originally Posted by AvatarAce2015

Originally Posted by ♥Lady Marie♥

i found this:Pocket Monsters Comic Strips

I agree with your assessement about this comic. -_- It looks lame as heck and kinda boring.

It is. Platypus Comics did a whole article on that comic. My Pokémon drawings are better than that, and it's clear the writers just didn't give a crap.

I found the site you mentioned with the pokemon comic, and yep it's just like what you and dogasu said.

I mean ash going to school,getting attacks wrong, and the fact that team rocket hardly appears in the comic is kinda bad to me.

Saw the updates. Very good. I enjoyed the comparison between the Galactic two parter and the new episode. I did not realized something big happened (gotta watch Pokemon more often.)

As for being crazy enough to get both the new DVD set and the Blu-Ray set... na :D. At their price, I can only afford one (barely) and I want me some hi-def Pokemon. :D If you're getting it, I'd appreciate a review. If you don't have time, that's fine. I just wanted to ask. :)

That's it, Dogasu. Let it all out!

Though I'll level with you. I'm happy with the Trio being how they are now because it forces TPCI to NOT make them speak godawful dialoge that makes me want to hurt someone. The "Good Meowth" episodes shows they just CAN NOT translate their dialoge worth shit. Them not being as good as they were is a small price to pay not feeling burniung rage every damn time they open their mouths (I have Cilan for that now)

Dogasu, do you really need to go on for over a page every comparison that has the TRio in it about how much you hate them? Trust me, we all get it. They're not even on the show currently, and that part of their characters is probably done with, so can we all just move on?

Dogasu's right though.

The "train chase" sequence at the tail-end of this episode is pretty pathetic, with Team Rocket giving up way too easily, and the Pokemon repeatedly using attacks to speed up the train car but never once attempting to take down the main threat (the helicopter/giant-crane combo Professor Seger is putting his heart into piloting) with their high-powered beam moves until Ash comes in.

I don't have a problem if he feels that way. I just don't see why these huge rants in every comparison are necessary.

^ It's just that it's the Onix in the room.
He's annoyed with many fans lovin' the "New & Improved" TR when they really haven't improved very much and when he does a comparison featuring them with their counter-lameness (going from "determined morons" to "too cool to take action") staring him in the face, boy is he ever gonna talk about it. Especially since this is one of the all time most greivace examples.

Though he did get carried away this time...
(he went all Nostalgia Critic on us!)

Originally Posted by Musashi

I don't have a problem if he feels that way. I just don't see why these huge rants in every comparison are necessary.

It is his "Thoughts" section. You have the option of not reading it.

I actually love reading Dogasu's feelings towards episodes and comparing them to my own. They're very interesting.

From the new comparison...

This is the final episode of TPCI's Black & White season, which doesn't really make any sense to me. Why not end the season at 52 episodes instead of a weird number like 48? Fifty-two episodes into the series would have made Alder's debut episode the season finale, something that makes a hell of a lot more sense than ending it on a random Rocket two-parter.

I'm fine with it- it is a two-parter of the main bad guys, though, and the next season begins with episodes about a gym leader. I guess the TRvsTP two-parter was going to be in it, and that would've made 50. (The Dawn and Brock specials, even though they're D&P specials, would add to make 52, although there hasn't been any word about them dubbing them... *shrugs*)

Very good work, Dogasu. I may like the new Team Rocket, but I concede it's not for everyone. I think that statement of you making your rants against them in the Battle Subway two-parter similar to the Nostalgia Critic or other Channel Awesome contributors, SF Debris, or Mr. Plinkett of Red Letter Media last month still fits. Anyone can simply say they dislike something. The real prowess comes from actively criticizing the piece and deconstructing its flaws. When you get down to it, the whole concept of of criticism is based on opinion, and it's the perception of that opinion that depends on how people react to it.

Once again, I must call BS on Dogasu here.

The trio places Pikachu and Kibago in these wire cage things that do not restrict their movements in any way whatsoever. Pikachu's tail - y'know, the longest appendage it has - isn't even in the confines of its steel ball thing.

Meowth placed Pikachu and Axew in the wire cages, not the whole trio, and Pikachu's tail being out didn't matter; it didn't use it at all.

They also put the stolen Monster Balls in a bunch of uncovered boxes and then place them in a train car. These boxes are all overflowing (what, they couldn't have brought an extra box or two to alleviate this?) but Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu didn't think to put a lid or tarp or anything on them that could prevent the Monster Balls from spilling out if the train should, for example, hit a bump in the road.

Huh? The boxes weren't overflowing at all, I don't think there was any danger of spilling out...and even if they did, a Pokemon wouldn't get released as long as the little circular center of the Ball wasn't pressed, and falling down is highly unlikely to cause that to happen. And while not covering them proved a problem, when were they supposed to get the time to do that? They had to drive the train as soon as the Balls were all loaded on, since Ash and co. were right on their tail.

They then think to put both Pikachu and Kibago, who - if you'll remember, can move around about as freely as they could if they weren't even in those cage things in the first place - into the same train car as these boxes of their friends' pokemon. There's no way that could possibly lead to any trouble, right?

Again, this is Meowth's fault, not Jessie and James' too. It was already established that Meowth was drunk on overconfidence.

So then Pikachu and his friends break free because they actually make an effort to escape instead of just sit there passively and accept their fate, which I guess is what the Rocket trio were expecting them to do for some reason.

Would YOU guess that Pikachu would actually zap a Poke'Ball's center, release a Pokemon, and effectively play Pokemon Trainer to it in order to get released? It doesn't matter if you're competant or not, no-one is going to think of this possibility in advance since it sounds so weird.

When Nyasu discovers that Pikachu's freed itself and like half the pokemon in our heroes' party, he just straight up ignores them instead of trying to do anything to either recapture them or prevent them from continuing their escape. Deathmas and Koromori aren't called out to help out, either, despite the fact that they could have easily flown on over into the train car and helped the trio buy some time.

AGAIN, explained away by Meowth being so competant up to this point that it goes to his head and makes him arrogantly assume he's going to succeed, which in fact causes him to screw up. There's a reason for this, it isn't just bad writing or Meowth being a total moron.

Seger-Hakase flies in on his helicopter, armed only with a giant crane game claw thing, and attempts to pick up the train car on which Pikachu and the others are firing off attacks from. We don't get to find out what he had planned to actually do with them once he caught them - what's to prevent them from just beating the shit out of him once they're onboard? - because he's so terrible at piloting a helicopter and / or using that crane thing that he never gets around to actually picking it up.

Zager says that flying the helicopter and using the crane at the same time is something that requires precision, and that this is difficult to pull off in the current situation. It's a run of bad luck, not something he's doing wrong. And they can't beat the shit out of him when they're aboard because they wouldn't be pulled in to the cockpit. They'd be pulled into the main body of the helicopter, where we see in the later Twist Mountain two-parter that forcefields can be turned on in. That's obviously how they'd be detained.

Additionally, the pokemon the Rocket trio had captured managed to free themselves by the time Satoshi and his friends caught up to them; in other words, the trio barely made it out of the city limits without everything blowing up in their faces.

Ash and the others only caught up to them because of a deus ex machina epiphany on Cilan's part. Again, how would the TRio predict that would happen? Your definition of competance is off if you think the TRio ought to be nigh-omnipotent in their planning to be competant.

But none of this translates to real competence - it just creates an illusion that this trio is suddenly good at their jobs. These changes are purely cosmetic and are blinding a lot of fans to the fact that the Rocket-Dan is just as sucky at their jobs now as they've always been.

No, I think the problem is that the Rocket trio IS good at their jobs now, but their personality has changed in the process and you hate that. So you insist that they haven't become competant and that the writers made a terrible, pointless move in changing their personalities because it truly changed nothing in how they operate and it would be better to just revert them back to their old silly personalities.

They weren't smart and careful, and they didn't have some brilliant plan and were only foiled because they had an unfortunate string of bad luck.

Yes, they were smart, were careful, and their plan was foiled on a string of bad luck and Meowth's overconfidence. You just WANT the case to be otherwise, because if it is, then you feel more justified in your claims that the trio should go back to the characters they once were, since being silly and incompetant is more justified than being serious and incompetant.