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  1. #151
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Here are some more:
    -I liked when original trio was reunited in Johto. I was happy when Brock came back and series started strong with things going pretty good until GS ball got dropped. However imo Master Quest redeemed for all those fillers giving us lot of interesting mini arcs, development for characters and league worth of gold. I also enjoyed in interactions between Ash,Misty and Brock giving that touch of long time known friends with friendship growing stronger bringing humor and dynamic conversations, with their split still being most emotional out of all groups .

    -i thought Zoey and Nando were interesting rivals. I liked mentor/rival relationship Zoey had with Dawn helping her on road of becoming top coordinator with both growing to respect each other having competitive rivalry going on. I also liked Nando self conceited attitude and versatility collecting both badges and ribbons which added whole new note to concept of rivals being obstacle to not only Dawn but Ash too.

    -i donšt think Sinnoh league was best pokemon offered so far. Battle against Nando and Conway felt rushed to me and while i really liked battle against Paul last minute Tobias with army of legendary and extremely short battle took away from general atmosphere laving things on sore note for me. When i think about it i probably enjoyed more in Johto and Hoenn leagues. It had excellent closure to rivalry with Gary and battle between Blaziken and Charizard was epic. Same goes for Hoenn tournament with Ash coming far only with his AG team having excellent battles against Morrison, Katie and Tyson.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 31st October 2012 at 10:01 AM.

  2. #152
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    I agree with everyone here about the Sinnoh League, but I think that the Conway match was absolutely perfect, 10/10 best match of the saga.
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    "Playing around?" Wrong.

  3. #153
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Sometimes badly written new characters makes me realize older ones aren't that bad.

    For example when DP was airing I liked Paul so much that it made me think Gary was a badly handled rival. But now in BW that we have Trip, it made me appreciate Gary a lot more and made me remember that I did indeed used to like him, no matter how rare his appearances are. I guess compared to Trip anyone would look good though.

  4. #154
    Only 70 new Pokemon? Hoopa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Sometimes badly written new characters makes me realize older ones aren't that bad.

    For example when DP was airing I liked Paul so much that it made me think Gary was a badly handled rival. But now in BW that we have Trip, it made me appreciate Gary a lot more and made me remember that I did indeed used to like him, no matter how rare his appearances are. I guess compared to Trip anyone would look good though.
    Even burgundy with her 0% win record?

  5. #155
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Yeah, burgundy would thrash Trip any day (as long as she didn't have a type advantage, heaven forbid)

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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    I'm not sure if this is an unpopular option, but I prefer the Snubbull running gag during Johto much more than the Jigglypuff running gag. I don't know if I'd consider it funnier or either gag really funny to be honest, but I liked how the Snubbull gag didn't run itself into the ground and actually had a pretty satisfying conclusion, as opposed to just being dropped like with Jigglypuff's gag.

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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    I know what you mean, in the same way that the Barry gag was better than the Morrison one

  8. #158
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    I think Ash's Kanto starters should have lasted the entire span of Johto. Misty would have gotten Totodile and Brock would have gotten Cyndaquil as a replacement for Vulpix. As for Chikorita I would have Ash with it too...as he had two grass types for most of Johto anyway.


    Anyone notice that Johto began to suck as soon as Charizard and Squirtle left? I think its obvious what went wrong.

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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I think Ash's Kanto starters should have lasted the entire span of Johto. Misty would have gotten Totodile and Brock would have gotten Cyndaquil as a replacement for Vulpix. As for Chikorita I would have Ash with it too...as he had two grass types for most of Johto anyway.
    Personally, I would have preferred it if Ash did start off his Johto journey with just Pikachu like he did in AG. It would have given his Johto Pokemon more screentime and it wouldn't have taken him so long to capture them. While Misty getting a Water starter might have sounded nice on paper, I still don't think that it would have gotten any significant larger amount of screentime than it did under Ash. Plus, I think that Totodile's personality fits more with Ash and I don't know if there was another Johto Water Pokemon that could have fit on his team really well. There were plenty of other Water types that could have fit with Misty, so I don't think she really needed Totodile to have another Johto Pokemon on her team. I like Brock, but considering what happened to Mudkip, I think it was a good thing that he didn't get Cyndaquil. It would just be in the background and rarely appear just like Vulpix. At least Cyndaquil got a decent amount of screentime through Ash's Gym battles. While the Johto starters weren't handled as well as they could have been, I still think that giving them all to Ash was fine and I don't think that they would have gotten any more screentime than if Misty and Brock got them.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
    Anyone notice that Johto began to suck as soon as Charizard and Squirtle left? I think its obvious what went wrong.
    I don't think that the Johto saga started to get really bad after they left, but I'm also one of the people who don't think that Johto was nearly as bad as the hype makes it out to be and it's a rather underrated saga. I liked the episode where Charizard left and Squritle's episode was okay at best for me. I think it would have gotten boring after awhile to see Ash using the same Kanto Pokemon in his Gym battles. Not to mention it would have made it difficult to promote the Johto Pokemon if Ash only had two on him for all of Johto. It made much more sense to give him the Johto starters marketing wise and so that he wouldn't just keep relying on Charizard, although the later kind of happened anyway at the end of Johto for better or for worse, and he would have to use new Pokemon. Giving him practically a clean slate for all of his new journeys at the start of every series has been one of the better choices the writers have made in my opinion.

    Personally, I find Ash's Kanto starters extremely overrated. Except for Charizard, none of them have really impressed me battle wise and they don't really have interesting personalities. I don't dislike them, but I do find the hype around them to be a bit much.

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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Personally, I find Ash's Kanto starters extremely overrated. Except for Charizard, none of them have really impressed me battle wise and they don't really have interesting personalities. I don't dislike them, but I do find the hype around them to be a bit much.
    Agreed. I was honestly never a huge fan of Ash's Kanto team. At their worst they were always watchable, though I've never understood what made them stand out as so special other than being "the first".

  11. #161
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I think Ash's Kanto starters should have lasted the entire span of Johto. Misty would have gotten Totodile and Brock would have gotten Cyndaquil as a replacement for Vulpix. As for Chikorita I would have Ash with it too...as he had two grass types for most of Johto anyway.
    Agreed.
    Whenever Ash got all 3 starters, more often than not one was always destined to be left out and underdeveloped.
    In Johto giving him three starters wasn't brightest idea in my opinion, considering how aside from Chikorita; Cyndaquil and especially Totodile were underdeveloped and underused for most part. It didn't helped that his Johto team had to compete with Kanto starters fighting for screen time either having trouble in getting out of their shadow and receiving adequate amount of focus.

    I always thought Misty getting Totodile would have worked out better in long run. She was clearly heat up to get him with his hyper nature seeming like it would fit with Misty character too, and having one of starters would mean higher marketing value and possibly more focus for character which is always a plus. Not top mention she had bigger knowledge about water types and i always thought Poliwhirl and even Corsola in general during Johto received overall better treatment than Totodile really did.

    Nevermind that at gym he would be more trained and used in battles increasing chances to evolve, as opposite to rotting at Oaks lab.

    And most importantly this would mean one less pokemon to focus upon in Ash team during Johto giving his other pokemon more screen time,training and actual growth.

    For that same reason when writers divided starters in Hoenn i felt how there existed perfect balance , which resulted in Ash Treecko having a lot of screen time for himself to properly develop and be used to full potential. Something which more often than not doesn't happen when you give all three starters to Ash.

    Anyone notice that Johto began to suck as soon as Charizard and Squirtle left? I think its obvious what went wrong.
    I think it was more when GS ball got dropped when series kinda started to lose steam with writers through removal of story through which they planned to move things forward finding themselves in front of wall. Which lasted until Master Quest when they regrouped.

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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Agreed.
    Whenever Ash got all 3 starters, more often than not one was always destined to be left out and underdeveloped.
    In Johto giving him three starters wasn't brightest idea in my opinion, considering how aside from Chikorita; Cyndaquil and especially Totodile were underdeveloped and underused for most part. It didn't helped that his Johto team had to compete with Kanto starters fighting for screen time either having trouble in getting out of their shadow and receiving adequate amount of focus.
    I don't know if I'd consider Cyndaquil being underused. Maybe underdeveloped, even though it was the only one of the starters that got a training focus episode, but it was used the most out of the Johto starters. Though, I agree that Totodile was underused and underdeveloped, which was a shame since it's so adorable and fun. Fighting for screentime with the Kanto starters is one reason why I think that it would have been better to give him the Johto starters much earlier and leave Charizard, Squirtle and Bulbasaur at Prof. Oak's place. Though, I don't think that the writers really thought of that as a possibility until Bulbasaur was left there and considering that this was the first time they were writing a saga that last more than a year, I could understand why that didn't come up in this saga.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    I always thought Misty getting Totodile would have worked out better in long run. She was clearly heat up to get him with his hyper nature seeming like it would fit with Misty character too, and having one of starters would mean higher marketing value and possibly more focus for character which is always a plus. Not top mention she had bigger knowledge about water types and i always thought Poliwhirl and even Corsola in general during Johto received overall better treatment than Totodile really did.
    I still don't think that Totodile would have received significantly more screentime under Misty than it did with Ash. Most of Misty's Pokemon, like with Brock's team, were pretty forgettable in Johto and she didn't have much really to do with them until the Whirl Cup. That's not to say she did nothing, but she didn't really have much going for her. To be fair, she did have a couple more Pokemon that stood out on her team, but only Poliwhirl stood out battling wise. I thought that Totodile's energetic nature fit better with Ash than with Misty, especially when she would only get that excited when talking about Water Pokemon while Ash got more excited about pretty much anything involving battling. Considering that Brock got a starter Pokemon in AG and he didn't receive a significant amount of focus, I seriously doubt that it would have happened with Misty. I don't think that Corsola had better treatment than Totodile. Maybe Poliwhirl since it was one of her main Pokemon she used in battle and it evolved, but still not enough to make me think that Totodile would have gotten much better treatment if Misty was raising it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Nevermind that at gym he would be more trained and used in battles increasing chances to evolve, as opposite to rotting at Oaks lab.

    And most importantly this would mean one less pokemon to focus upon in Ash team during Johto giving his other pokemon more screen time,training and actual growth.
    I don't know if being at the Gym would be that much better than being at Professor Oak's lab. Even if Misty appears again, the chance that she would have a Feraligatr, or even a Croconaw, seem pretty unlikely when, outside of Gyarados, her Pokemon, that we saw at least, are still traditionally cute. Also, it's not like we would see any of these battles, so seeing it evolved if she ever appeared again would be about as satisfying as seeing May's Squirtle and Bulbasaur evolve without seeing their battles. At least we can assume that they're not just wasting their time at Prof. Oak's lab and possibly train if all of the new moves they use when Ash uses them again is any indication. Besides that, not having Totodile wouldn't necessarily solve the problem of Ash's Johto Pokemon not having enough focus. If Misty did get Totodile, he would have gotten some other kind of Water type Johto Pokemon, so the problem wouldn't be solved. It would just deal with two of the three starters, Noctowl and whatever Water type they gave to Ash. That, along with how I don't think that Misty would give Totodile a significant larger amount of screentime, doesn't make me think that Misty getting Totodile would have been worth it in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    For that same reason when writers divided starters in Hoenn i felt how there existed perfect balance , which resulted in Ash Treecko having a lot of screen time for himself to properly develop and be used to full potential. Something which more often than not doesn't happen when you give all three starters to Ash.
    Treecko and Torchic got a good amount of focus, but I didn't think that Mudkip did. It wasn't used that often and Brock's Ludicolo had more screentime and a better personality in my opinion. Dividing the starters only really worked with Treecko and Torchic because their trainers had goals which required them to compete in Gyms/Contests every so often, even though Torchic wasn't used in a Contest until it evolved. Still, they got a good amount of screentime because of that, which made dividing the starters work for those two, but not so much for Mudkip. As much as I like Brock, if him getting Mudkip in AG is any indication as to how characters without active quests like Gyms and Contests would use starter Pokemon, then I think it's a good thing that Misty didn't get Totodile. It really wouldn't have been given a significant amount more of attention under her control based on both her screentime in Johto and how Mudkip was treated in AG.

    Another opinion that I think may be unpopular is how I would like Contests to return in the next series. That does depend on whether or not they appear in the games, but I really wouldn't mind going back to Contests. Re-watching DP has made me appreciate their Contests more than when I watched the series and I would like to see what they could do after not doing them for a series. Though, I'd be content with some kind of new sidequest for the next female lead, but I actually would be in favor of Contests returning as well.
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  13. #163
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    I don't know if I'd consider Cyndaquil being underused. Maybe underdeveloped, even though it was the only one of the starters that got a training focus episode, but it was used the most out of the Johto starters. Though, I agree that Totodile was underused and underdeveloped, which was a shame since it's so adorable and fun. Fighting for screentime with the Kanto starters is one reason why I think that it would have been better to give him the Johto starters much earlier and leave Charizard, Squirtle and Bulbasaur at Prof. Oak's place. Though, I don't think that the writers really thought of that as a possibility until Bulbasaur was left there and considering that this was the first time they were writing a saga that last more than a year, I could understand why that didn't come up in this saga.
    Cyndaquil still had pretty low battling record, it learned almost no new moves and in most of battles he painfully struggled coming of as underdog . Not to mention fact that it took him 10 years to evolve says a lot about poor treatment it got, with DP league where he was used in serving as redemption in reality.

    I still don't think that Totodile would have received significantly more screentime under Misty than it did with Ash. Most of Misty's Pokemon, like with Brock's team, were pretty forgettable in Johto and she didn't have much really to do with them until the Whirl Cup. That's not to say she did nothing, but she didn't really have much going for her. To be fair, she did have a couple more Pokemon that stood out on her team, but only Poliwhirl stood out battling wise. I thought that Totodile's energetic nature fit better with Ash than with Misty, especially when she would only get that excited when talking about Water Pokemon while Ash got more excited about pretty much anything involving battling.
    Its not about amount of screen time someone would receive, but quality of growth/ focus that same pokemon gets and in Totodile case that was anything but true under Ash care.
    For record Misty did quite a lot with Staryu, Poliwhirl and later Corsola long before Whirl Cup even started,. Staryu was involved in several rescue missions helping to get other pokemon and people out of trouble such as getting out Togepi and Pikachu out of TR Arbok tank, slowing down giant mecha Wobbufet robot etc. It battled TR pokemon and was second most used pokemon after Poliwhirl. Poliwhirl won Seaking contest, battled TR on several occasions, showed actual improvement during Johto travels and battled against various trainers. While Psyduck was anything but forgettable with humor and appeal it brought to show.

    I don't agree how Misty got excited only when talking about water pokemon either and im quit surprised by such statement, because whenever battling was involved she was highly excited. I remember how much nervous she was when battling Dorian, Andreas, Sakura or that other trainer with Poliwrath, How much excited she was before entering Whirl Cup feeling like shes part of something big in her life, when entered Princess tournament in Kanto, race which Ash won with Rapidash in Kanto etc. Nevermind romance and talks about love turning in all ears when this was brought up being deep romantic or cute pokmon literally starting to fangirl over them. We can especially notice that with Snubull, Teddiursa, Eevee from Sakura, Wooper etc in Johto.

    So argument how Totodile would work better with Ash because hes more excited doesn't sound very convincing to me, when Misty was quite eager as well.

    Not to mention she proved to posses greater knowledge about water pokemon, their positive and negative sides and showed to be more adaptive and skilled in battling with them both on surface and under water than Ash ever di d. So its logical to presume under care of water expert Totodile would as water type have greater chance to grow forward, with her pokemon team reflecting that if comments from various people on how healthy and well trained(more active ones)are were anything to go with.

    Considering that Brock got a starter Pokemon in AG and he didn't receive a significant amount of focus, I seriously doubt that it would have happened with Misty. I don't think that Corsola had better treatment than Totodile. Maybe Poliwhirl since it was one of her main Pokemon she used in battle and it evolved, but still not enough to make me think that Totodile would have gotten much better treatment if Misty was raising it.
    Using Brock as indication how would be treated starters from other characters is irrelevant conclusion. Just because someone starter didn't battled or get much focus, doesn't mean same thing would happen with another.

    For start Misty always received more focus than Brock, her pokemon got trained and battled incomparably more and goal was more battle ready meaning we would see them more often in action than Brock's;since her quest involves battling, training and entering competitions.

    And yes Corsola definitely received better treatment than Totodile despite being caught later. It showed gradual improvement in strength and resistance both in Master Quest and chronicles, it won most battles it was involved into getting better achievements (defeating Quilfish, Gyarados, Mantine, Espeomn, Delcatty being just a few to mention) and portrayed to be in better shape. As opposite to Totodile who hardly ever trained, showed no improvement or growth, entered only one gym battle which lost along with most other battles he participated into with performances in Whirl Cup, in gym match against Dorian, or in league being quite poor never evolving or being used afterwards. Meaning low battling experience, very little training and chance to grow forward.

    I don't know if being at the Gym would be that much better than being at Professor Oak's lab. Even if Misty appears again, the chance that she would have a Feraligatr, or even a Croconaw, seem pretty unlikely when, outside of Gyarados, her Pokemon, that we saw at least, are still traditionally cute. Also, it's not like we would see any of these battles, so seeing it evolved if she ever appeared again would be about as satisfying as seeing May's Squirtle and Bulbasaur evolve without seeing their battles. At least we can assume that they're not just wasting their time at Prof. Oak's lab and possibly train if all of the new moves they use when Ash uses them again is any indication. Besides that, not having Totodile wouldn't necessarily solve the problem of Ash's Johto Pokemon not having enough focus. If Misty did get Totodile, he would have gotten some other kind of Water type Johto Pokemon, so the problem wouldn't be solved. It would just deal with two of the three starters, Noctowl and whatever Water type they gave to Ash. That, along with how I don't think that Misty would give Totodile a significant larger amount of screentime, doesn't make me think that Misty getting Totodile would have been worth it in the long run.
    Chances for evolving would be higher than they are now.Its obvious Misty pokemon are battling, being trained at gym. We can see that with Corsola who became stronger and more resistant, Gyarados who learned flamethrower etc,.

    Job of gym leader is to test challengers, train your pokemon and battle. Most activity at Oaks ranch consists of playing with other pokemon, eating and enjoying in fresh air.

    I believe its clearly obvious at what place pokemon would receive more experience.

    Using Misty current team as argument how Totodile would have no chance to evolve is invalid too, because every pokemon which was in position to grow evolved. Speaking of rest Corsola and Luvdisc cannot evolve, Staryu evolving wouldn't make any sense when she already has Starmie.
    Horsea was left at gym with sisters which are anything but competent, so its not surprising why it hasn't evolved while Psyduck is special case in itself being harder to work with than most other pokemon not only Misty but all main characters has. Leaving us only with Goldeen.

    Judging by Poliwhirl and Togepi evolving, as well receiving Gyarados which is anything but cute as well opportunity to actually train and battle in gym challenges chances are that Totodile would have evolved more likely than not.

    Whether we would see him battle or not is irrelevant to discussion, because we don't see him battle now that hes retired at Oaks ranch either, and lastly what i meant is that if Totodile didn't went to Ash his other two starters would probably receive better focus and treatment.

    If Hoenn and Sinnoh examples were anything to go by with Treecko, Turtwig and Chimchar being handled incomparably better having more focus for themselves not having to share it with third one. Which is to expect since more starters you have chances are it will be harder to divide proper focus among them and other pokemon so that each gets decent growth, considering how starters require more focus and attention than its case with other pokemon because of their high marketability representing generation from which they originated from.

    Treecko and Torchic got a good amount of focus, but I didn't think that Mudkip did. It wasn't used that often and Brock's Ludicolo had more screentime and a better personality in my opinion. Dividing the starters only really worked with Treecko and Torchic because their trainers had goals which required them to compete in Gyms/Contests every so often, even though Torchic wasn't used in a Contest until it evolved. Still, they got a good amount of screentime because of that, which made dividing the starters work for those two, but not so much for Mudkip. As much as I like Brock, if him getting Mudkip in AG is any indication as to how characters without active quests like Gyms and Contests would use starter Pokemon, then I think it's a good thing that Misty didn't get Totodile. It really wouldn't have been given a significant amount more of attention under her control based on both her screentime in Johto and how Mudkip was treated in AG.
    People can say what they want but Mudkip(later Marshtamp) got decent spotlight under care of character which rarely battles(Brock) being only water starter which evolved under possession of main character.
    I doubt he would ever evolve if it went to Ash.

    In retrospection Misty pokemon battled more than Brocks and she received sufficient amount of focus in Master Quest, Kanto and Orange Islands so using card of "low focus"as argument cant be really applied here either. If anything if she got Toptodile her focus could have likely increase in earlier Johto since receive of starter means higher marketing value and more focus for that same pokemon.

    Even Brock Mudkip still got more focus than pokemon in Johto like Onix, Geodude, Vlupix or Foretress because of greater importance it held as starter.

    Also i strongly disagree that characters needs to do gyms or contests to receive proper development either and have their pokemon got good treatment,. Because for good development and focus its not quantity and in how many episodes we are going to see pokemon which matters, but quality and how productively that focus is utilized.

    People who complain about amount of focus supporting cast receives in pokemon, should take a look at other shows like Yugioh, Dragon Ball, Bakugan etc. In such shows most sidekicks are treated like dirt in comparison to characters from pokemon .

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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    -I actually prefer iris and hikari over kasumi.
    - I like bel, and satoshi should have more female rivals.
    - Shigeru was more of a comic relief rival, and if satoshi can get his brain zapped to bout as dumb as kanto, then Shigeru should be a douchebag again to restore order to the universe. (I have a theory that Satoshi travelled to Isshu before he went to Orange Islands, and he met Hikari in a short break in Sinnoh, when she was 9. Either that weird crack theory, or the coma theory)
    - Hikari is my favourite travel companion of satoshi's.
    - I hope kibago doesn't evolve. HE'S SO CUTE!!!
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    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you have any unpopular opinions about the anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Cyndaquil still had pretty low battling record, it learned almost no new moves and in most of battles he painfully struggled coming of as underdog . Not to mention fact that it took him 10 years to evolve says a lot about poor treatment it got, with DP league where he was used in serving as redemption in reality.
    It was still used much more than it would have been if Brock had it and it was still used more often in Gym battles than the other Johto starters. That might not be saying much in the grand scheme of things, but it wasn't what I'd consider underused given it was used in five out of eight Gym battles. Though, I agree that it should have evolved during Johto instead of during DP's run.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Its not about amount of screen time someone would receive, but quality of growth/ focus that same pokemon gets and in Totodile case that was anything but true under Ash care.
    For record Misty did quite a lot with Staryu, Poliwhirl and later Corsola long before Whirl Cup even started,. Staryu was involved in several rescue missions helping to get other pokemon and people out of trouble such as getting out Togepi and Pikachu out of TR Arbok tank, slowing down giant mecha Wobbufet robot etc. It battled TR pokemon and was second most used pokemon after Poliwhirl. Poliwhirl won Seaking contest, battled TR on several occasions, showed actual improvement during Johto travels and battled against various trainers. While Psyduck was anything but forgettable with humor and appeal it brought to show.
    Being used against Team Rocket doesn't really count as much of anything in my book. It's at least something, but not what I'd consider a step-up from Ash. Totodile was able to do that and be involved in battles beyond that. Poliwhirl at least had that Seaking Contest, but again, that's not really a lot and she wasn't involved in much battles beyond facing Team Rocket until the Whirl Cup. I also didn't say specifically what Pokemon I'd consider forgettable, so I didn't say that Psyduck was forgettable. In fact, that was the Pokemon on her team that stood out the most because of its comedy relief

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    I don't agree how Misty got excited only when talking about water pokemon either and im quit surprised by such statement, because whenever battling was involved she was highly excited. I remember how much nervous she was when battling Dorian, Andreas, Sakura or that other trainer with Poliwrath, How much excited she was before entering Whirl Cup feeling like shes part of something big in her life, when entered Princess tournament in Kanto, race which Ash won with Rapidash in Kanto etc. Nevermind romance and talks about love turning in all ears when this was brought up being deep romantic or cute pokmon literally starting to fangirl over them. We can especially notice that with Snubull, Teddiursa, Eevee from Sakura, Wooper etc in Johto.

    So argument how Totodile would work better with Ash because hes more excited doesn't sound very convincing to me, when Misty was quite eager as well.
    I honestly didn't get a huge amount of excitement from Misty battling compared to when she'd talk about Water Pokemon. She was energetic about it, but not nearly as much as when she could go on about how much she loved Water Pokemon or claiming herself as a Water Pokemon master.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Not to mention she proved to posses greater knowledge about water pokemon, their positive and negative sides and showed to be more adaptive and skilled in battling with them both on surface and under water than Ash ever di d. So its logical to presume under care of water expert Totodile would as water type have greater chance to grow forward, with her pokemon team reflecting that if comments from various people on how healthy and well trained(more active ones)are were anything to go with.
    Despite supposedly having a great knowledge of Water Pokemon, I say supposedly due to how I didn't get a vibe like that from her, not many of her Pokemon actually grew. The only fully evolved Pokemon she got were Starmie, Politoad and Gyarados and only one of those three Pokemon actually evolved on screen. For the most part, her team remained the same with few new moves learned and few evolutions. Plus, considering that most of her Pokemon are still traditionally cute, I don't see how Totodile would have had that much of a better chance at growing.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Using Brock as indication how would be treated starters from other characters is irrelevant conclusion. Just because someone starter didn't battled or get much focus, doesn't mean same thing would happen with another.

    For start Misty always received more focus than Brock, her pokemon got trained and battled incomparably more and goal was more battle ready meaning we would see them more often in action than Brock's;since her quest involves battling, training and entering competitions.
    While Misty did get more focus than Brock, which isn't saying much, there's still no indication that she would have gotten more screentime and Totodile would have been handled better than Mudkip was. She didn't have a huge amount of focus in Johto and Brock, despite getting a starter Pokemon that the writers like to focus on for promotion, was in the background. Even though her goal involves more battling than Brock's did, I still don't think that's a good indication that they could have done more with her if she had Totodile.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    And yes Corsola definitely received better treatment than Totodile despite being caught later. It showed gradual improvement in strength and resistance both in Master Quest and chronicles, it won most battles it was involved into getting better achievements (defeating Quilfish, Gyarados, Mantine, Espeomn, Delcatty being just a few to mention) and portrayed to be in better shape. As opposite to Totodile who hardly ever trained, showed no improvement or growth, entered only one gym battle which lost along with most other battles he participated into with performances in Whirl Cup, in gym match against Dorian, or in league being quite poor never evolving or being used afterwards. Meaning low battling experience, very little training and chance to grow forward.
    I'm not sure if that's gradual improvement, especially when defeating Gyarados was pretty cheap in my opinion. Totodile didn't have much going on for it under Ash, which was disappointing to say the least, but I still don't think it would have guaranteed improvement if Misty was training it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Chances for evolving would be higher than they are now.Its obvious Misty pokemon are battling, being trained at gym. We can see that with Corsola who became stronger and more resistant, Gyarados who learned flamethrower etc,.

    Job of gym leader is to test challengers, train your pokemon and battle. Most activity at Oaks ranch consists of playing with other pokemon, eating and enjoying in fresh air.

    I believe its clearly obvious at what place pokemon would receive more experience.
    Yes, they would be training at the Gym, but based on what we've actually seen of her team, they're still full of traditionally cute Pokemon, aside from Gyarados. Plus, it still isn't satisfying to have them evolve off-screen which is what I was trying to point out with referring to May's evolutions when she returned, and there's still the issue of whether Misty will appear again and if she would use Totodile, or whatever it evolved into, if she ever did when it wouldn't be marketable now. Prof Oak's place is for relaxation, but I imagine that there is some training there based on the new moves they've learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Using Misty current team as argument how Totodile would have no chance to evolve is invalid too, because every pokemon which was in position to grow evolved. Speaking of rest Corsola and Luvdisc cannot evolve, Staryu evolving wouldn't make any sense when she already has Starmie.
    Horsea was left at gym with sisters which are anything but competent, so its not surprising why it hasn't evolved while Psyduck is special case in itself being harder to work with than most other pokemon not only Misty but all main characters has. Leaving us only with Goldeen.

    Judging by Poliwhirl and Togepi evolving, as well receiving Gyarados which is anything but cute as well opportunity to actually train and battle in gym challenges chances are that Totodile would have evolved more likely than not.
    I'm aware that there are some Pokemon that can't evolve. However, that doesn't change the fact that they're all still traditionally cute, which is why I don't think that they would have Totodile evolve even if she did have it. Poliwhirl and Togepi evolved, but they were still traditionally cute. Gyarados is the only exception and that was given to her during Chronicles. That still makes me think that the chances of Totodile evolving if it was under her control slim at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Whether we would see him battle or not is irrelevant to discussion, because we don't see him battle now that hes retired at Oaks ranch either, and lastly what i meant is that if Totodile didn't went to Ash his other two starters would probably receive better focus and treatment.
    It's certainly isn't satisfying to see that they evolved off-screen compared to actually seeing the battles themselves, so I do think that matters. I'd feel the same way about if Ash's Pokemon evolved off-screen at Prof. Oak's place. Considering how Johto was handled, I don't know if removing Totodile from Ash's team would have given the other starters better treatment necessarily.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    If Hoenn and Sinnoh examples were anything to go by with Treecko, Turtwig and Chimchar being handled incomparably better having more focus for themselves not having to share it with third one. Which is to expect since more starters you have chances are it will be harder to divide proper focus among them and other pokemon so that each gets decent growth, considering how starters require more focus and attention than its case with other pokemon because of their high marketability representing generation from which they originated from.
    I don't know if Turtwig is the best example here since, while it did have good screentime at first, it had less as it evolved. That was disappointing, even though I was fine with Infernape taking up more focus given the importance with Ash's rivalry with Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    People can say what they want but Mudkip(later Marshtamp) got decent spotlight under care of character which rarely battles(Brock) being only water starter which evolved under possession of main character.
    I doubt he would ever evolve if it went to Ash.
    Mudkip was pretty forgettable, especially compared to his Ludicolo, so I don't think that it got decent spotlight. I don't think it would have evolved if Ash had it either, but I doubt it would have been as forgettable.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    In retrospection Misty pokemon battled more than Brocks and she received sufficient amount of focus in Master Quest, Kanto and Orange Islands so using card of "low focus"as argument cant be really applied here either. If anything if she got Toptodile her focus could have likely increase in earlier Johto since receive of starter means higher marketing value and more focus for that same pokemon.

    Even Brock Mudkip still got more focus than pokemon in Johto like Onix, Geodude, Vlupix or Foretress because of greater importance it held as starter.
    Personally, I still think that believing she would have gotten more focus in Johto with Totodile is assuming too much. She had more focus than Brock, but that's still not saying much and battling wise, she didn't have a lot going for her until the Whirl Cup. It's also not hard to get more focus than Brock's other Pokemon considering how forgettable they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Also i strongly disagree that characters needs to do gyms or contests to receive proper development either and have their pokemon got good treatment,. Because for good development and focus its not quantity and in how many episodes we are going to see pokemon which matters, but quality and how productively that focus is utilized.

    People who complain about amount of focus supporting cast receives in pokemon, should take a look at other shows like Yugioh, Dragon Ball, Bakugan etc. In such shows most sidekicks are treated like dirt in comparison to characters from pokemon .
    I never said anything about quantity or that they need a lot of episodes to have good development. A character in any show doesn't need a lot of episodes centered around them to bring about quality development. I just don't think most of the Pokemon that haven't been with trainers with active goals have received decent screentime/development and the trainers with the best quality development are ones with active sidequests like Contests and Gyms. I'm also not complaining about the amount of focus the supporting cast receives. Please don't put words in my mouth. All I was trying to say was that dividing the starters worked for Treekco and Torchic because their trainers were more battle active, while Brock, who didn't have an active sidequest that forced the writers to used him to battle more often, didn't use Mudkip that often. Since Misty didn't have a quest that required her to battle more often, in the same vein of Gyms and Contests at least, I don't think that Totodile would have been significantly better off with her than it was with Ash. It would probably be about the same to be perfectly honest.

    Let's just agree to disagree and end the discussion here. I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a Misty off-topic discussion if it goes on any further and I don't want that to happen. Plus, I just hate talking about Misty this much, so I don't want to drag this off-topic discussion on any further.

    In an attempt to get back on topic, I honestly wasn't upset that they dropped the GS ball subplot in Johto. I do think that it was a poor choice for them to do that, especially when they thought that kids would just forget about that, but I wasn't crushed or seriously angry about it either. I clearly remember thinking that they were going to check on the GS ball right after the Johto League ended and then I just shrugged it off when they skipped it.

    I also really don't like Bianca. She comes off as pretty annoying and honestly a huge letdown after her video game counterpart was so awesome and became one of my favorite rivals ever.

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