Thread: Do you accept the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

Considering the fact that Red became champion as well as a pokemon master while Ash never won a major league nor own any legendaries or all the starters from both Hoenn and Sinnoh, do you still consider Ash to be the official anime counterpart of Red?

He is Red's counterpart whether we like it or not. I don't see any point in denying it.

Ash is still Red's counterpart, even if Red has caught a few legendaries and trained at Mt. Silver for 3 years, and Ash has lost at every tournament.

I wouldn't consider him Red's counterpart post-Indigo League, as nothing he does after that point is based on Red's story.

Originally Posted by Saiga

I wouldn't consider him Red's counterpart post-Indigo League, as nothing he does after that point is based on Red's story.

I agree, it's obvious that he was Red's counterpart for Kanto (minus becoming the Champion), but after Kanto it went in a completely different direction. Actually, even within the Kanto saga, Red's quest was quite different from Ash's quest. Still, they are counterparts considering that they are both the trainer from Pallet who traveled around Kanto collecting badges and rivaling Gary / Blue. And they ended up with similar parties after finishing up Kanto. They even look sort of the same... I really don't know of anyone in the anime who fits Red's character better than Ash unless one of the 2 unknown trainers does (but from what I remember, both of those trainers failed before even making it to the League, so it can't be either of them). So if Red does have an anime counterpart (which I think he does), it's gotta be Ash.

Ritchie is the only other possibility and he lost the league too. Ash is Red's counterpart in the way of having pikachu plus all the starters of kanto along with lapras at one point, and a snorlax. Red capturing legendaries isn't canon as that depends on the player. His only canon pokemon are those from the Johto games, which Ash has/does own all. He doesn't need to win the Indigo League to be Red's counterpart. Counterparts are just characters based on the game characters, they don't need the same personalities. Pokemon Adventures is a good example of this as most of the characters aren't one bit like their game counterparts, it's the same with the anime

I don't recall Red being confirmed to be a Pokemon Master in the games. He did become the Champion, but I don't think that's the same as a Master, especially when they didn't describe him as such in the games. Regardless, Ash is Red's anime counterpart. I wasn't even aware that people didn't accept it before. He may not be following Red's storyline post-Indigo League, but that doesn't change the fact that Ash is still based off of Red. So, I don't really see the point in denying this as well.

Not in my mind, no. That's not a bad thing, though. He's gone on a different path from Red, so although Ash was based on him, I now consider them quite separate. Even though some aspects of either are taken from the other (Red's use of Pikachu, for example), I don't consider Ash Red's counterpart, as that implies being a mirror image of him, which he's not.

Yes. I am sure Red will never, ever appear in the anime because Ash is Red's counterpart. The whole thing with Ash losing the league is just marketing, if the show had been only 1 season long, he would've probably won. And anyway, is Red even a Pokémon Master? He's the Champion of Kanto, but that's not a Pokémon Master.

yes. i see it like how May is Saphire's anime counter part and Pearl is Barry's counterpart. (though there are some inconsistency between both medias).
driving a point home. Red in Crystal had a really high leveled pikachu. back when i was younger it was convincing that he had a strong pikachu in the games and the show (not so much the show fast forward)

Originally Posted by mwto

Ritchie is the only other possibility and he lost the league too. Ash is Red's counterpart in the way of having pikachu plus all the starters of kanto along with lapras at one point, and a snorlax. Red capturing legendaries isn't canon as that depends on the player. His only canon pokemon are those from the Johto games, which Ash has/does own all. He doesn't need to win the Indigo League to be Red's counterpart. Counterparts are just characters based on the game characters, they don't need the same personalities. Pokemon Adventures is a good example of this as most of the characters aren't one bit like their game counterparts, it's the same with the anime

I considered Ritchie as a possibility but that makes even less sense than Ash. Ritchie was never indicated to have come from Pallet, he certainly didn't know Prof. Oak when they met in that elevator, and it is extremely unlikely that Gary was his rival. The only similarities are his looks and his party... the party not even matching as there was no indication that he even had a Lapras or Snorlax.
So yeah, it's gotta be Ash.

Ash is in every way Red's counterpart. Ash sucks, Red doesn't. Perfect counterparts.

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

I don't recall Red being confirmed to be a Pokemon Master in the games.

Adding to that...I don't think the term "Pokemon Master" has ever been used in any of the video games at all. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the whole idea is restricted to the TV series.

Originally Posted by Dogasu

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

I don't recall Red being confirmed to be a Pokemon Master in the games.

Adding to that...I don't think the term "Pokemon Master" has ever been used in any of the video games at all. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the whole idea is restricted to the TV series.

In Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed, and LeafGreen, upon defeating Lance, he declares the player a Pokémon Master.

Pokémon Master - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

He is the counterpart of all male PCs.