Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to you? - Page 7

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Thread: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to you?

  1. #91
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Yes, very desperate. But I don't really care because most of those gimmicks are the reason I still bother watching BW. Except the girl band endings. God, are those awful... Oh, yeah, and Hikari and Shirona was pretty disappointing, but there were a couple of hilarious seconds I actually loved (such as Hikari getting knocked out of the way by Dent, I need to make that an animation).

    But yes, it's looking desperate and rather pathetic.
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    つまらないものはさっさと消去。

  2. #92
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott
    following the cancellation of those two episodes, it was decided to make Team Rocket the centre focus of the usual villain team plot.
    That requires a ton of assuming that ignores several key facts:

    • By the time this two-parter was set to air, the TV series had already skipped G'Cis' speech in Karakusa Town, the introduction of N, the kidnapping of the little girl's pokemon by the Plasma grunts, the theft of the Dragon Bones in the Shippou City, the kidnapping of Bel's Mun'na in Hiun City, and the introductions of four of the Seven Sages (G'Cis, Asura, Sumura, and Rot).
    • The Site of Dreams stuff from the games was kind of in the TV series, but it was the Rocket-Dan, not the Plasma-Dan, who were behind all the trouble there.
    • The Victini movies pretty much cover the "black hero / white hero" storyline from the games.
    • None of the previews for the skipped two parter showed any named Plasma-Dan members; all we saw were a bunch of nameless grunts.
    • Nothing in any of the previews show the Plasma-Dan talking about liberating pokemon or trying to make the world a better place. So in other words, nothing about the Plasma-Dan that we know from the games seems to have been present.


    I just don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that the writers had any plans for the Plasma-Dan beyond the two-parter. The evidence just isn't there.
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  3. #93
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    I just don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that the writers had any plans for the Plasma-Dan beyond the two-parter. The evidence just isn't there.
    So do you believe that Episode N is merely a result of the writers "giving in" and pandering to the fanbase? They didn't really want to ever do anything with Team Plasma?

    I'm just wondering what the writers were planning when they made Best Wishes a fast-paced series from the get-go.
    Last edited by Silktree; 3rd March 2013 at 12:03 PM.

  4. #94
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    I just don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that the writers had any plans for the Plasma-Dan beyond the two-parter. The evidence just isn't there.
    So do you believe that Episode N is merely a result of the writers "giving in" and pandering to the fanbase? They didn't really want to ever do anything with Team Plasma?
    They would've planned something on Team Plasma, but look at how Episode N was advertised. It didn't focus on Team Plasma, but N - they went all the way to advertise a single character and create a hype on it, and the story itself is mostly all about N

  5. #95
    ポケモンマスター はるひ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    I just don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that the writers had any plans for the Plasma-Dan beyond the two-parter. The evidence just isn't there.
    They usually have plans for the resident evil gang of the region. I mean even before the two parter came along, I believe they still had plans for plasma-dan beyond the two parter, just... that they changed gears after they came up with episode N. it's only be logical because... well plasma-dan was the main gang in BW/BW2 ;p

  6. #96
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott
    following the cancellation of those two episodes, it was decided to make Team Rocket the centre focus of the usual villain team plot.
    That requires a ton of assuming that ignores several key facts:

    • By the time this two-parter was set to air, the TV series had already skipped G'Cis' speech in Karakusa Town, the introduction of N, the kidnapping of the little girl's pokemon by the Plasma grunts, the theft of the Dragon Bones in the Shippou City, the kidnapping of Bel's Mun'na in Hiun City, and the introductions of four of the Seven Sages (G'Cis, Asura, Sumura, and Rot).
    • The Site of Dreams stuff from the games was kind of in the TV series, but it was the Rocket-Dan, not the Plasma-Dan, who were behind all the trouble there.
    • The Victini movies pretty much cover the "black hero / white hero" storyline from the games.
    • None of the previews for the skipped two parter showed any named Plasma-Dan members; all we saw were a bunch of nameless grunts.
    • Nothing in any of the previews show the Plasma-Dan talking about liberating pokemon or trying to make the world a better place. So in other words, nothing about the Plasma-Dan that we know from the games seems to have been present.


    I just don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that the writers had any plans for the Plasma-Dan beyond the two-parter. The evidence just isn't there.
    I never said it was going to be a direct adaptation of the game plot though. It probably would have been similar to how they handled Team Magma and Aqua - skipped some bits and changed others (like them appearing in Desert Resort in the first place, which wasn't in the games until later in the story). Also, iirc, Team Galactic's debut in DP was later than they appeared in their games.

    Also, we only saw roughly a minute and a half of animation. For all we know, the episodes could have foreshadowed future planned appearances of N or the Sages (like how earlier on in the games, only Plasma grunts and the occasional sage appeared). Or heck, a sage might have actually shown up, we don't know. In fact, most of the preview focused on Team Rocket as opposed to Plasma.

    As for the movie, it seems like Episode N is going the Truth and Ideals route anyway.
    Last edited by Joshawott; 3rd March 2013 at 03:20 PM.

  7. #97
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree
    So do you believe that Episode N is merely a result of the writers "giving in" and pandering to the fanbase? They didn't really want to ever do anything with Team Plasma?
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott
    For all we know, the episodes could have foreshadowed future planned appearances of N or the Sages
    And for all we know, the episodes didn't.

    Or heck, a sage might have actually shown up, we don't know.
    In a series where very little detail about an episode is leaked weeks before it airs? Do you really think that, in all the promotional materials for the two-parter, we wouldn't have seen at least a glimpse of an in-game character? That the marketing people would have the restraint necessary to keep something as major as one of the Seven Sages appearing a secret?
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  8. #98
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree
    So do you believe that Episode N is merely a result of the writers "giving in" and pandering to the fanbase? They didn't really want to ever do anything with Team Plasma?
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott
    For all we know, the episodes could have foreshadowed future planned appearances of N or the Sages
    And for all we know, the episodes didn't.

    Or heck, a sage might have actually shown up, we don't know.
    In a series where very little detail about an episode is leaked weeks before it airs? Do you really think that, in all the promotional materials for the two-parter, we wouldn't have seen at least a glimpse of an in-game character? That the marketing people would have the restraint necessary to keep something as major as one of the Seven Sages appearing a secret?
    Seems more likely to me than the writers introducing a bunch of grunts from a villain team that had a really heavy story in the games, then just doing nothing at all with them for 80+ episodes.

  9. #99
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    That's, of course, assuming that the 80 episode gap (and, therefore, Episode N) was planned from the get-go. And given Satoshi's magical shape shifting badge case, that seems unlikely.

    I don't see any evidence to suggest that the original plan *wasn't * to have the Plasma-Dan serve as COTD to help wrap up the Rocket-Dan's Meteonite plot and then that be it. Episode N was never a part of the equation.
    Last edited by Dogasu; 3rd March 2013 at 06:24 PM.

  10. #100
    Forever Lacking Rhythm Konoko Hasano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    It seems as if people in this thread love tossing around the word 'gimmick' just to describe everything they dislike that is happening in the series, and are ignoring the fact that the majority of things are all based on merchandising. An example of throwing out certain words just because they SOUND nice to use.

    There are various things that I'm not happy with in regards to Best Wishes, but none of those things listed -- which are incredibly nitpicky and seem to merely be reaching for reasons -- are part of my reasoning.

    I see absolutely no desperation at all. All I see is merchandising in a merchandise driven series. However, there DOES seem to be more emphasis on merchandise this series than previous.

    Black/White and Black/White 2 are both no longer fully relevant and have had their course. There's not much that the anime can really do in relation to those two games that they have already done. Are there minor things they can show that they haven't already? Sure, but it's not like that's enough. We're pretty much in a lull period between games.

    As was already mentioned by someone, it was said when the series began that it would be faster paced, and that's exactly what we got. The rushed feeling and everything in regards to Best Wishes was likely already set in stone, with the writers and everybody involved probably already knowing that this saga/gen would be a rather short one.

    Could they have handled it a little better? Yes. They could have given a little more focus on certain Pokemon and had them evolve, instead of just keeping them cute and small so they could merchandise them.

  11. #101
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott
    For all we know, the episodes could have foreshadowed future planned appearances of N or the Sages
    And for all we know, the episodes didn't.
    Actually, one of the previews showed a grunt namedropping "the hero", which would be N.

    What's most likely the case, though, is that just like with DP, the writers wanted to wait with introducing the evil team plot proper until the "third version" of the BW games would be released, as it would likely feature a tweaked version of the plot they'd have to take into account. Thus they would just give us an early introduction to the evil team to tide people over and keep their existence in mind, but not really do anything with their storyline until they knew where the next game would take it.

    It takes 6 months + for these episodes to go from the planning stage to being aired, so we know this two-parter was written before BW was even released, and interviews have revealed that B2W2 weren't conceptualized until after the BW release, so at the time the writers wouldn't have a clue we'd get a set of straight sequels with a completely different iteration of the evil team.
    If they didn't learn of B2W2's plot until after the earthquake and BW23/24's postponement, it'd make sense that this made them realize it'd be far more practical to just rework what they had into a plot starring the new Plasma rather than air the postponed episodes mostly-as-is and then have to come up with a way to make both iterations of the team fit into the anime plot.
    So.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    I really don't think TP was supposed to be in BW outside of the intro episodes. BW was obviously meant to focus on TR.

  13. #103
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    While TP would've had to have been altered from the games (that goal of Pokémon liberation just doesn't work in the Anime, sadly), it's hard for me to believe that 2 parter would've been their only appearance. B2W2 & Gen 6 promoting still would've had to alter the story, but I find it hard to believe the creative staff would've buried us under so much filler (crappy filler at that) if a monkey wrench hadn't been throne into the machine...

    Though I certainly don't see the point of having Ash get the badges the fastest since Kanto. That was just stupid, promotional reasons or not.

  14. #104
    Registered User Cinderfella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    If the writers truly want to make it up to us, they should show May's Johto GF as specials. Or at least combine May and Dawn and their rivals in the Johto Wallace Cup Dawn was on her way to. Contests were too important in this show to be forgotten about. It may be wishful thinking, but it would give us a break from this dreadful saga, redeem Dawn, and give us an update on May. Plus, we'd see granted some nice appeals and contest battles and maybe some nice match-ups.

    Does no one miss Harley?

  15. #105
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    This thread is not to discuss your wishlist or how the writers can make it up to you for this saga. But if you'd like to talk about your wishlist or how the writers can make it up to you in the next saga, you have this thread. This thread is to discuss the topics in the original post and whether or not they're signs of desperation on the writer's part.
    HumanDawn and Bubble Frog like this.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

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