Thread: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to you?

I was wondering what all the fanservice was for. I think my brain's gonna implode if they pack any more old characters or fan favorites into the anime. The fangasm-tastic stuff does seem like they're fishing for an audience, but hey, I don't mind it.

It is a bit silly to introduce all those gimmicks at once, but that earthquake really had a profound effect. The best thing we could do is wait it out and hope that the X/Y saga is better planned out.

If they want the ultimate fanservice they should have Ash re-enter the Indigo league after the N arc and win it, thus winning a league and giving us an Elite 4 arc.

Very much so. it seems that they think by making up for the terrible writing they can just shoehorn in some fanservice and call it a day. Based on the reactions of people who fangasmd over misty being in a flashback I think the ploy has suceeded.

Originally Posted by pokemonsquared

Very much so. it seems that they think by making up for the terrible writing they can just shoehorn in some fanservice for the day. Based on the reactions of people who fangasmd over misty being in a flashback I think the ploy has suceeded.

The funniest part of it all is said flashback won't be more than a minute or two and they focus on Charizard.

"Season 2" didn't bother me too much. This is the first time we've got a real title change like that, but honestly it's not that different from like how Diamond and Pearl did that one thing around Platinum's release where they popped out a new poster with the gang wearing winter clothes and featuring the plot-important puzzle-key thing from the Galactic Arc, and we also got a new OP from that iirc (and they switched to HD around then, right). And it was obviously meant to correspond to the first numbered sequel in the series' history, Black 2 and White 2, so I wouldn't blame the anime for that alone as it seems like they wanted to advertise the games like always.

Battle Frontier did a lot of the "old Pokemon return!" stuff as well, and I didn't find that desperate. Than again, Battle Frontier ended up being a solid series once the initial fillers that focused on old Kanto Pokemon ended and they jumped into overdrive with evolutions and Frontier Brains every other episode.

The difference is Orange Islands and Battle Frontier were actually full-fledged separate arcs.

What they're doing in Unova is essentially taking one region and splitting it up into 4 parts for no reason. They rushed through the Gyms and now have nothing to do.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

If they want the ultimate fanservice they should have Ash re-enter the Indigo league after the N arc and win it, thus winning a league and giving us an Elite 4 arc.

That wouldn't be fan service, that would be a mistake. If he couldn't win the Unova league, I don't think they are going to let him win that one either. don't care if he has the best team. There would be always someone to knock him down. We've seen that with Tobais.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

If they want the ultimate fanservice they should have Ash re-enter the Indigo league after the N arc and win it, thus winning a league and giving us an Elite 4 arc.

Or, they can give us specials of May's GF in Johto. Who wouldn't want to see Drew and Harley again? I also would love to see May beat Soledad as well.

So even Dogasu isn't above starting a thead solely for fans to continue crying and moaning about how Best Wishes sucks and how it "ruined the anime". That's interesting to know. With that said, let me point out the flaws in his argument.....

Originally Posted by Dogasu

The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2, complete with a new poster and opening theme.

That was very obviously done to reflect/market Black 2 and White 2. Nothing to do with desperation.

Hikari and Pochama came back for a number of episodes.

How is that any different from Misty and May coming back for a number of episodes in the past?

Shirona also came back and assisted in the big Rocket-Dan plotline instead of Adeku.

Cynthia is in Undella in the Black/White games. The big TR plot took place around Undella. Cynthia assisting is a logical choice and has everything to do with her status in the Black/White games, not her status in the Diamond/Pearl anime.

The Rocket-Dan had a highly publicized "final battle" and then had a somewhat hyped up "comeback" all within the space of three months.

Yeah, you got me there. I have no idea what that was all about.

The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 Episode N and finally brought N and the Plasma-Dan to the TV series. Also, new poster and opening theme.

That's not desperation, that's marketing, something the anime's always done. N is currently the most popular human character in the entire Pokemon franchise, who many wanted to see in the anime for a long time, so of course they're going to advertise his presence.

Satoshi's Lizardon is being brought back, randomly.

No more random than when he was brought back in Battle Frontier. Were the writers "desperate" then too?

Takeshi and Kasumi are showing up in the Lizardon episode (there's a 99% chance they'll just be in flashbacks, but still)

But still nothing. It'll be a flashback (the episode preview alone shows flashbacks), and that's not desperation or pandering whatsoever.

Myuutwo's coming back and will fight Genosect in this summer's movie.

Something almost everyone predicted would happen the moment Genesect was revealed. Your point?

The show will probably get yet another title change after Episode N ends.

Or it could just go back to being plain old Best Wishes Season 2.

The last two ending themes have been done by girl groups in a very transparent attempt to try to cash in on the AKB fad going on right now.

Right, because the anime's never been transparent about cash-in attempts before.

So what gives? Why do you think the writers feel the need to keep giving us "big events" like these in order to keep our interest in the show? I don't want to be jaded enough to think that they're doing all this to distract us from the show's many, many problems, but it honestly feels like that to me sometimes.

Alot of the stuff you mentioned aren't stuff that the writers are in charge of. Blame the marketing team and other such forces.

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

How is that any different from Misty and May coming back for a number of episodes in the past?

I think that they made a bigger deal about Dawn coming back than they did with Misty and May. She was on the promotional poster for season two, they put bio information on her character on the website among the main cast, and she was included in the opening theme. I only remember seeing Misty and May in the opening themes after they left the cast when they had a image of all of the previous traveling companions with them. They made a huge deal about Dawn returning and while it was probably mostly due to Piplup, it still came off as an attempt to promote a popular character from the previous series in order to get more attention.

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

That's not desperation, that's marketing, something the anime's always done. N is currently the most popular human character in the entire Pokemon franchise, who many wanted to see in the anime for a long time, so of course they're going to advertise his presence.

They've never really gone so far as to change the title of the series twice for marketing before. While I agree that it makes sense marketing wise to capitalize on N's popularity by making a big deal about his appearance, it still comes off a gimmicky stunt to get ratings. It doesn't really come off as desperation, but just another attempt to give the anime more attention by hyping up a new change, instead of actually fixing more of the mistakes in this series.

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

No more random than when he was brought back in Battle Frontier. Were the writers "desperate" then too?

Charizard coming back in the Battle Frontier actually made more sense due to the FR/LG games, so it was more marketing relevant to showcase Ash's older Kanto Pokemon and especially his starters around that time. There is merchandise around Charizard, but it feels kind of weird when the next games are X/Y and not another R/G remake. I'm not sure if Charizard's return in the Battle Frontier was promoted like this, but considering that Charizard will apparently be in the next movie, I think that they're making a bigger deal about its return now than they did back then.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

My guess is after how terrible parts of Best Wishes were, they're pulling fanservice moments in desperate attempts to get people to watch again.

No, because millions of kids, the target audience, are still watching the anime. It's still doing very well.

Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel

I agree with you, most of Best Wishes was pretty dull and plot-less that it didn't seem like the Pokemon anime it used to be before it began

OK, WTF!? NOW the anime is dull and plot-less? And "the Pokemon anime it used to be" wasn't?

I hardly call a formula-driven show full of fillers showing off Pokemon, repeating running gags, and beating up Team Rocket, spread out between the rare Gym, Contest, or regional evil team episode, a plot-driven series, or even a very exciting one.

Seriously, go back and rewatch the Meloetta arc. That right there is more plot than this anime has had in YEARS.

Originally Posted by Hyasynth

Yeah, at this point even the writers seem to have caught on to the trainwreck that Best Wishes has become and are manically pressing the Panic Button.

Except, again, the writers don't have that much to do with what's being criticized here. At all.

The problem is that BW is unsalvageable, and trying to solve the issue with MORE BLATANT ADVERTISING and mindless pandering isn't going to help.

D/P pulled out BLATANT ADVERTISING and mindless pandering out the wazoo for it's last two years. Where were the complaints then?

Hopefully the writers will have learned from this failed "reset button" experiment and go back to what they were doing in DP. I swear, it's like one of the higher-ups in the writing staff decided that DP was too good and told everyone to shift the focus from plot and characterization to marketing everything as blatantly as possible.

So for you, trying out new things and experimenting is bad and they should stick with what they did in DP, which was keeping a worn-out formula going and doing every predictable thing imaginable. Basically, you hate change. Got it.

And plot and characterization? Again I ask, what "plot" in D/P differated in from the "plot" in BW, which is the same for the most part (Ash travels around a region collecting badges to enter the League which he is doomed to fail in). And characterization? Are you frigging kidding me!? Please tell me which characters in D/P, if any, were three-dimensional and dynamic characters who changed by the end of the series? Because I can't come up with a single one.

Originally Posted by Joshawott

I think the writers know that they've fudged up Best Wishes and are constantly trying to jump the shark.

So they know they fudged up and thus deliberately try to continue fudging up? What sense does THAT make!?

It's still in the Top 10 so it's not that bad, but during the beginning of Best Wishes, wasn't it usually in the top 5?

AG and D/P also had higher ratings in the beginning than they did later. D/P's ratings were as "low" as BW's are now when it was on it's last legs. There's nothing new going on here when it comes to ratings; this is how it's been with each series of this anime.

Originally Posted by SammyW27

They had big plans for BW, then the Seismic Disaster all but ruined them. Then B2W2 and and Gen 6 made things even worse

Unless there was a Team Plasma appearance between Driftveil and Mistralton that got scrapped due to the disaster, then no plans were ruined at all. Every other episode that aired in 2011, all the way up to the Kami Trio two-parter which was followed by Ash winning his fifth badge, was planned to happen as they did BEFORE the disaster. And even if the disaster HADN'T happened, any planned Plasma appearance between the fifth and sixth badges would have likely gotten scrapped anyway due to Black 2 and White 2 getting developed.

People really need to stop using a tragedy that caused two episodes to get pulled as a scapegoat for BW not going the way they wanted it to go or thought it was going to go. Because the truth is that BW was always going to go in the direction that it went following that lost two-parter. If that's hard for you to accept, then too bad, because that's reality nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Winterdaze

It seems less like a desperate plea for ratings and more like an attempt to up the ante on the merchandising. Perhaps the looming release of X & Y has something to do with it, and they're trying for a last minute cash in on BW2 while it's still relevant.

That's EXACTLY it. Finally someone gets it.

Ratings and the show's content itself has nothing to do with this; this is all about Gen V merchandizing while Gen V is still around.

Originally Posted by SammyW27

Originally Posted by Caseydia

@Gliscord, I love how you take a topic about Best Wishes and turn it into a topic of how bad Johto was.

The two sagas DO have some noticeable similarities (won't go into them here though to stay on topic)

He used to rant about D/P being the next Johto and how similar those two sagas were. You can't take the guy seriously at all here.

Though I will say that I see the Johto and D/P parallels more than I do the Johto and BW parallels.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

They rushed through the Gyms and now have nothing to do.

Right, I get the impression that the Gym quest is the only thing that can be called a "plot" to this fandom, and the only thing the anime is allowed to do. Heaven forbid we actually get arcs based around new ideas and new objectives like saving the world. No, let the anime be Japan's Scooby Doo and do the same story over and over and over again.

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

I think that they made a bigger deal about Dawn coming back than they did with Misty and May. She was on the promotional poster for season two, they put bio information on her character on the website among the main cast, and she was included in the opening theme. I only remember seeing Misty and May in the opening themes after they left the cast when they had a image of all of the previous traveling companions with them. They made a huge deal about Dawn returning and while it was probably mostly due to Piplup, it still came off as an attempt to promote a popular character from the previous series in order to get more attention.

Dawn has always gotten alot more attention and been made a bigger deal of than Misty or May, even in D/P (she was more promoted than Ash was!) It doesn't have anything to do with desperation; yes, it's a rating grabs stunt, but the anime has done tons of rating grabs stunts in the past and there was no conspiracy theories about it then. Only now, when it happens in a saga that people have an irrational hatred for, do they make up fantasies that fit their views.

It doesn't really come off as desperation, but just another attempt to give the anime more attention by hyping up a new change, instead of actually fixing more of the mistakes in this series.

Except that the writers may not see those "mistakes" as mistakes, and may not be so keen on "fixing" them.

There is merchandise around Charizard, but it feels kind of weird when the next games are X/Y and not another R/G remake. I'm not sure if Charizard's return in the Battle Frontier was promoted like this, but considering that Charizard will apparently be in the next movie, I think that they're making a bigger deal about its return now than they did back then.

The reason behind the hype I can't say, but I'm pretty sure the decision to bring him back by the writers has little to do with ratings and more to do with Dragonite. They created Iris' Dragonite, who is very similar to Ash's Charizard, and they naturally decided to capitalize on this and bring in Charizard to meet him so that fun stories and moments between them could be had.

It should be noted that Iris' Dragonite, despite the flak it gets here, is quite popular in Japan. The upcoming event where players can download it isn't happeing for no reason, y'know. It's popularity is likely a contributing factor to Charizard's return.

I'm quite alright with it because it is making BW more bearable lol.

Hey there. Attack the arguments and points they make, not the people themselves. Calling people pinheads, mocking and insulting them are not acceptable. You can totally respond and have a logical rebuttle without resorting to that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

Dawn has always gotten alot more attention and been made a bigger deal of than Misty or May, even in D/P (she was more promoted than Ash was!) It doesn't have anything to do with desperation; yes, it's a rating grabs stunt, but the anime has done tons of rating grabs stunts in the past and there was no conspiracy theories about it then. Only now, when it happens in a saga that people have an irrational hatred for, do they make up fantasies that fit their views.

That's true that Dawn got a lot more attention in DP and I'm aware that previous series have done rating grab stunts in the past. It just seems a lot more noticeable in BW, mainly because of the way they promote them compared to other rating grab stunts. Also, I don't like the assumption that people have an irrational hatred for BW and are making up fantasies about it. That does come off as insulting and even if I liked BW, I would notice these gimmicky stunts and think that they're just trying to grab more ratings. Even with Dawn getting more attention than May and Misty did in their respective series, it doesn't really change how they made a bigger deal about her return than any of the other female traveling companions and that didn't really go anywhere in my opinion.

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

Except that the writers may not see those "mistakes" as mistakes, and may not be so keen on "fixing" them.

Valid point.

Originally Posted by ObjectionMan

The reason behind the hype I can't say, but I'm pretty sure the decision to bring him back by the writers has little to do with ratings and more to do with Dragonite. They created Iris' Dragonite, who is very similar to Ash's Charizard, and they naturally decided to capitalize on this and bring in Charizard to meet him so that fun stories and moments between them could be had.

It should be noted that Iris' Dragonite, despite the flak it gets here, is quite popular in Japan. The upcoming event where players can download it isn't happeing for no reason, y'know. It's popularity is likely a contributing factor to Charizard's return.

Honestly, I don't see much of a similarity between Iris' Dragonite and Ash's Charizard. I imagine that they wanted to have a battle between Iris' Dragonite and Ash's Charizard just because of how popular they are, but it still comes off as a gimmicky stunt to get ratings. Like I mentioned before, this certainly isn't the first series to pull off stunts like that to get attention and ratings, but it does feel more noticeable due to how much they've promoted season two and to a lesser extent Episode N.

Also, just to reaffirm Contrary's in-thread warning, please don't insult other people. You can disagree with people's arguments, but insulting them is crossing the line. I don't care to be called names and I know other people don't either, so please don't do it again.