Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to you? - Page 2
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Thread: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to you?

  1. #16
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    To be perfectly honest, it doesn't seem more gimmicky than normal. Sure, there's more hype for things, but that just gets me more excited for the show. And some things you do mention are pretty clear attention-grabbers. But,

    The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2, complete with a new poster and opening theme.
    I don't think that's desperate. This is the first time we had actual sequels instead of a third version, so obviously you need to capitalize on that. They're referencing the games and showing that the show will be different in tone; we got a lot of changes in BW2, such as them bringing back older Pokemon. And we were long due for an opening theme.

    The N subtitle wasn't necessary, though.

    Hikari and Pochama came back for a number of episodes.
    To promote the return of older Pokemon, and the fact that they always bring back the girl from past generations.

    Myuutwo's coming back and will fight Genosect in this summer's movie.
    Eh, mixed. Ever since we knew about Genesect 3 years ago, people saw the story potential with Mewtwo a mile away.
    Team Fairy

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  2. #17

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Charizard returning when he didn't appear in DP at all says a lot. It's actually kinda funny when you realize DP was the only saga Charizard didn't appear at all.

  3. #18

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Not so much "desperate" as they have little choice. Like any show made to promote stuff, they're at the mercy--what little there is--of corporate executives.

    They had big plans for BW, then the Seismic Disaster all but ruined them. Then B2W2 and and Gen 6 made things even worse

    The things they've done since may be stupid, but they need to do SOMETHING to pass the time (this is another reason I wish Japan would learn the concept/importance of seasonal breaks). Every direction they've tried to take the series in has either been effed up or backfired. It may suck for fans, but it can't be any fun for the creative staff either...
    Last edited by SammyW27; 27th February 2013 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #19

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Funnily enough, reading comments about ratings did remind me of this article. It's still in the Top 10 so it's not that bad, but during the beginning of Best Wishes, wasn't it usually in the top 5?
    It's in the same position it's always been, being in "that block of shows that consistently rates just below the One Piece/Doraemon/Conan/Shin-chan quartet". Reports of the Pokemon anime dropping in relative popularity are highly exaggerated.
    So.

  5. #20
    Registered User Trainer Gabriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    I guess I didn't really notice all of this as gimmicky fanservice to cover up the writing of BW; after all, Cynthia's return was done for promotion and no one would have been surprised to see Dawn make a comeback, regardless - not to mention more Piplup promotion. Still, now that you mention it, things like bringing back Charizard and Mewtwo, changing seasons to hype the series, and likely Misty and Brock appearances in flashbacks may very well all be just an attempt to keep the viewers watching, after all the bad writing choices that Shinneth mentioned.

  6. #21
    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    I didn't think it was too much of a problem with the season two subtitle because they wanted to capitalize on the first direct sequels for the games, but making a big deal about Dawn's return, despite doing basically nothing with her, did come off as desperate attempt to get more attention, even though I'm pretty sure they wanted to make a big deal just because of Piplup. With giving another subtitle to Episode N, bringing back Misty and Brock, even though it will most likely be through flashbacks, including Mewtwo in the next movie and bringing back Ash's Charizard, it does seem pretty gimmicky. That's not to say that none of the others series had gimmicky stunts, but in BW, I think that they feel more noticeable because of how they have been promoted, especially every time they get a new subtitle and Charizard's return.

    It comes off as a way to get better ratings for the show, as well as attempts to make BW look better by having more opportunities to promote it, instead of only being able to do that around the start of the series. Unfortunately, even after all of the promotions and attempt to cash in on nostalgia appeal, it doesn't really change the flaws BW have. The battles are still pretty bad and rushed for the most part, Ash's Pokemon are generally underdeveloped, most of the rivals have been terrible, especially Trip, Iris has had everything handed to her and Cilan, while a likable character, doesn't really do much or has had any development. All of the gimmicky stunts wouldn't change these problems since they didn't really change most of these problems. Although, I guess that they realized that Trip didn't really work as a rival given where he ended up in the Unova League, but for the most part, the problems in BW have remained throughout the series and these stunts to get more ratings doesn't change that. It does make me hope that in the next series, they'll have a better handle of the series with much better rivals, battles and traveling companions so that it's more enjoyable than BW has been overall.

  7. #22
    Happy NintendoDay Europe! Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Funnily enough, reading comments about ratings did remind me of this article. It's still in the Top 10 so it's not that bad, but during the beginning of Best Wishes, wasn't it usually in the top 5?
    It's in the same position it's always been, being in "that block of shows that consistently rates just below the One Piece/Doraemon/Conan/Shin-chan quartet". Reports of the Pokemon anime dropping in relative popularity are highly exaggerated.
    To even be in the top 10 at all means that there's little to doubt in terms of ratings tbh.

  8. #23

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    I barely looked into this, and if I should've looked into it more, I'm sorry, but assuming I can ask... how much non-movie pre-BW! music have they used since Season 2 started? Or music earlier than the Arceus movie music? 'Cause considering the things Dogasu mentioned on that list, if only using newer music is something that hasn't changed since Season 2.... well, it'd be ironic and frustrating for me. (Not saying I'd want them to only bring back the most played older tracks.)

    Speaking of movie music... I saw from your website, Dogasu...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu's Backpack
    It's always kind of neat to go back to these episodes years after they air to see just how much things have changed since then. A few things are the same (Tsutarja has the exact same moveset now that it had two years ago, WTF writers!?) but other things are wildly different. Like how the music editors didn't rely so heavily on the music from the movies the way they do now.
    I don't know if this movie music thing is something that's been the case starting within "just the last year or so", but if it is, that's another thing. I'm not sure how fitting the music is for those scenes since I haven't seen the episodes though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    ...because it sure does feel like desperation to me. In just the last half a year or so:

    [list][*]The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2, complete with a new poster and opening theme.[*]The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 Episode N and finally brought N and the Plasma-Dan to the TV series. Also, new poster and opening theme.[*]The show will probably get yet another title change after Episode N ends.
    Lemme talk about these. (Although I'm talking to anyone here, really, you and/or others.) The thing with Charizard and Mewtwo and all of that... I'm fine with that (well... actually I have mixed feelings with Mewtwo), and maybe they are desperate, although I do hope things are executed well with those characters. (Then again, I'm sure you do too, and... I guess like... everyone.) But the title changes... I've never been a fan of them making a "Season 2" title and then an "Episode N" title. I'd much rather have all the stuff they're having but still being called Best Wishes!. I'd rather they just have one title per generation of a series (although I'm fine that Kanto League through Johto League got one whole series.) All episodes for a particular generation (AG and Gen III) would be united that way, imo.

    They didn't even wait until Ash finished the Unova league. When they made things Season 2, Ash had just got his last badge. (Which was from someone from the B2/W2 games. I thought someone said that the last slot in Ash's badge case was originally shaped like the Opelucid Gym's badge.)

    Bringing Charizard and etc. are things that'll try and bring interest, but for me the title of the series is so significant that if even that can't stay the same throughout one generation... well, I'm kinda annoyed. I think I eventually was like "whatever" months after Season 2 started, but then they did the "Episode N" title thing.

    EDIT: TLDR- How much pre-BW! TV music and pre-Arceus movie music have they used since Season 2? They use plenty of movie music now, apparently. IMO, have Dawn, Piplup, N, new openings (well, have 'em last a while), new posters, etc., but don't go as far as to change the title too.
    Last edited by Rex Kamex; 27th February 2013 at 03:12 PM.
    Seasons =/= Regions

  9. #24
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Wait, so we're calling these gimmicks now? I thought they were called trolls? But seriously, since episode one of Best Wishes is that what this is about. It hasn't changed and it probably won't until someone leaves from the cast or the writing staff.

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanDawn View Post
    Don't really see it. I'm enjoying the show normally, and I don't see what's so gimmicky, except for maybe Mewtwo and Charizard.
    This. My God!

    It reminds me of the Johto saga actually. By late Johto everyone gave up on Ash's boring Johto team of Bayleef/Cyndaquil/Totodile so the writers said, "Screw it, we're bringing back the Kanto starters!"

    Claire's Gym was dominated by Pikachu, Charizard and Snorlax...all Kanto Pokemon. And then the actual Johto league had Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard star in all the matches while the Johto pokemon got limited screentime.

    I guess everytime an arc is poorly received the writers bring Charizard in for the rescue.
    @Gliscord, I love how you take a topic about Best Wishes and turn it into a topic of how bad Johto was.

  10. #25
    Registered User Nymphia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    I think that what's happening with Best Wishes was because the fresh start when BW started. In general, long-running anime don0t change the cast too much if at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    ...because it sure does feel like desperation to me. In just the last half a year or so:

    • The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2, complete with a new poster and opening theme.
      Season 2 was created because some series interrupt broadcasting for economical reasons since 2012. Pokemon take sthis with Season 2 promoting the new games. What is more suspecting is the heavy promotion
    • Hikari and Pochama came back for a number of episodes.
      Don't forge the false promotion (easily detectable to almost discard since the start) that Dawn will be a main character in Season 2 putting in all bios from official sites.
    • Shirona also came back and assisted in the big Rocket-Dan plotline instead of Adeku.
      Cynthia appearing isn't a surprise since April ecause it's in the games after all. That's why they bring back Dawn but the writers need ratings (notice exactly the ratings just before Season 2) and this is why it was promoted.
    • The Rocket-Dan had a highly publicized "final battle" and then had a somewhat hyped up "comeback" all within the space of three months.
      The writers are doing attention with possible leaves and comebacks to attract audience There'0s also the fact that many people in Japan don't like serious TR. And we have the consequences of all Live Casters, Radio Show, etc: Team Rocket aren'0t doing missions now unless you consider catching Pikachu. And blasting-off, Meowth's balloon, Kanto!? motto, disguises has returned to the show.
    • The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 Episode N and finally brought N and the Plasma-Dan to the TV series. Also, new poster and opening theme.
      Other attempts to boost rating specially when we know how episodes long is Episode N.
    • Satoshi's Lizardon is being brought back, randomly.
      Ashis expected top use the reserves on epoiunt into the series and Charizard wasn'0t in DP and it was one of the most popular pokemon.
    • Takeshi and Kasumi are showing up in the Lizardon episode (there's a 99% chance they'll just be in flashbacks, but still).
      Nothing of importance
    • Myuutwo's coming back and will fight Genosect in this summer's movie.
    • The show will probably get yet another title change after Episode N ends.
      Officially the series is named Best Wishes Season 2 like the pre-Episode N episodes. But they need what happens next.
    • The last two ending themes have been done by girl groups in a very transparent attempt to try to cash in on the AKB fad going on right now.
    They are good songs, I don't mind it.

    So what gives? Why do you think the writers feel the need to keep giving us "big events" like these in order to keep our interest in the show? I don't want to be jaded enough to think that they're doing all this to distract us from the show's many, many problems, but it honestly feels like that to me sometimes.

    What do you the rest of you think?
    Dogasu, this is because:
    THwe writers replaced almost all the cast THey only keep Ash and Team Rocket, but the latter were made completely seriouswith caused to the fans a dislike to them.

    The earthwquake caused that hyped episodes don't air. The fandom took a dislikle tot he series because the series isn't airing the episodes that they scheduled.

    The complete predictability of the mid battle of Best Wishes. Specially in early 2012 (when the worst ratings was happening).

    -The change of Dawn to Iris doesn't get well with the writers. Dawn has merchandise and the power to attract the female audience that Iris doesn't have. And they are needed to get Piplup back as soon as possible in merchandise. To the point that now Piplup is in many toys when his substiute isn't in Best Wishes toys. Merch is the whole reason why I see Dawn in the XY cast.

    -The bad writing that the series has and the compolete rest of Ash although they could be minor.

    Dogasu, it's true that the writers are rare since Season 2 started because the writers lost somnething in the DP BW transition. At first, the hype caused it to not be notable but after the EQ people start not liking the series too much. however, it ahppened in Johto and in a lesser way, AG (from 9% to 6-7%)
    Last edited by Nymphia; 27th February 2013 at 04:39 PM.

  11. #26

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    ... I suppose to really see if the writers are being desperate, it depends on how well the characters are considered to be handled. Bringing Charizard or Dawn back, for example, I don't think are desperate moves unless their characters ended up not being handled well to people. (Well, around here it seems many people feel Dawn's appearance in Season 2 wasn't good.)

    I'd probably think, "They brought Dawn back and they barely gave her anything to do. They're being desperate- they want people to be excited for her appearing just because she's appearing."

    or

    "Dawn's back. They're not being desperate. They've thought of a good/great way to handle her character and have shown that in these episodes."
    Seasons =/= Regions

  12. #27

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    I don't think the content of the episodes from the last six months or so (or the coming months for that matter) has been particularly gimmicky relative to previous series, they're the same old tricks the anime has been pulling for years. But there has been a distinct and noticeable change in the way they are being marketed and hyped, starting with Best Wishes! Season 2. It's like everything is being built up months in advance and made out to be this huge deal...which naturally turns out to be pretty anti-climactic when we actually see it.

    It seems less like a desperate plea for ratings and more like an attempt to up the ante on the merchandising. Perhaps the looming release of X & Y has something to do with it, and they're trying for a last minute cash in on BW2 while it's still relevant.

  13. #28

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    I think the way they promoted Dawn and Piplup was overboard for an 8 episode stay. They put her in the opening, on the promotional poster, they place her on the official website in the main character section and they make it out to be like she was going to be there for all of BW2.

    Then when it airs Dawn's actual role past her intro was to be nothing more than fodder for Iris' Dragonite. It's like what was all that promotion about?

  14. #29

    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    @Gliscord, I love how you take a topic about Best Wishes and turn it into a topic of how bad Johto was.
    The two sagas DO have some noticeable similarities (won't go into them here though to stay on topic)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I think the way they promoted Dawn and Piplup was overboard for an 8 episode stay. They put her in the opening, on the promotional poster, they place her on the official website in the main character section and they make it out to be like she was going to be there for all of BW2.

    Then when it airs Dawn's actual role past her intro was to be nothing more than fodder for Iris' Dragonite. It's like what was all that promotion about?
    Please note that they make opening themes & promo materials before they do any kind of planning. Or so it seems to me.
    (remember how Stunfisk was in To Be an Arrow 1 instead of Pansage, yet didn't even show up in Season 2.Or at least I don't remember it if he did.)
    Other animes build their openings around the show's content, but with Pokemon it's the other way around (and even then they don't go all the way a lot the time).

  15. #30
    I am the Aqua Rabbit. CamyPSyrup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo

    Uhh...I really don't care if it was "gimmicky" or not: I'm still gonna watch the show.

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