Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
ObjectionMan 
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Originally Posted by
Joshawott I think the writers know that they've fudged up Best Wishes and are constantly trying to jump the shark.
So they know they fudged up and thus deliberately try to continue fudging up? What sense does THAT make!?
I didn't say they were deliberately fudging it up even more. I suggested they might be trying to introduce new ideas, storylines etc to try and boost interest in the show again (or give an excuse to have more Pokémon Centre marketing campaigns or whatever)...it just happens that they're not doing a good job at it and everything is left feeling really gimmicky.
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It's still in the Top 10 so it's not that bad, but during the beginning of Best Wishes, wasn't it usually in the top 5?
AG and D/P also had higher ratings in the beginning than they did later. D/P's ratings were as "low" as BW's are now when it was on it's last legs. There's nothing new going on here when it comes to ratings; this is how it's been with each series of this anime.
Fair enough if true. I wasn't really complaining about it being a ratings disaster or anything anyway, as I mentioned later on in this thread it's still in the top 10, yet many really popular anime of the last year didn't even get a single episode in.
I highly doubt everything about this season was planned in advance (Ash's badge case originally having a slot for the Legend Badge, but then suddenly having that slot fit the Toxic Badge is evidence of that).
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The reason behind the hype I can't say, but I'm pretty sure the decision to bring him back by the writers has little to do with ratings and more to do with Dragonite. They created Iris' Dragonite, who is very similar to Ash's Charizard, and they naturally decided to capitalize on this and bring in Charizard to meet him so that fun stories and moments between them could be had.
Oh yeah, because I totally remember Charizard coming back into the show when it came to dealing with Dawn's Mamoswine and Iris' Excadrill. I'm not saying the decision to bring Charizard back is ratings, but it sure as hell isn't Dragonite.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
ObjectionMan So even Dogasu isn't above starting a thead solely for fans to continue crying and moaning about how Best Wishes sucks and how it "ruined the anime". That's interesting to know. With that said, let me point out the flaws in his argument.....
Dogasu has reasons that why he is posting that thread. I wanted to do one but I don0t wanmt to do one because I have a lot of points on Serebii.
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Originally Posted by
Dogasu The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2, complete with a new poster and opening theme.
That was very obviously done to reflect/market
Black 2 and
White 2. Nothing to do with desperation.
Making all the promotion for Season 2 was showiung that the writers had a problem with Season 1. Speciually this:
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Hikari and Pochama came back for a number of episodes.
How is that any different from Misty and May coming back for a number of episodes in the past?
Last summer, TV Tokyo hypnotized (not literal) Japanese children to make people think that Dawn and her Piplup is returning to the main cast. And, caution, because her Piplup is getting merchandise each time there's exceptions) that a group of marketable pokemon appear. And I'm 99% sure that I love Marine is canon to the anime and Piplup will return around the merchandise date release. There's I love Gothix with Croagunk meaning that Brock are returning but Brock hasn't made a cameo yet.
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The show went from being called Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 to Pocket Monsters Best Wishes! Season 2 Episode N and finally brought N and the Plasma-Dan to the TV series. Also, new poster and opening theme.
That's not desperation, that's marketing, something the anime's always done. N is currently the most popular human character in the entire
Pokemon franchise, who many wanted to see in the anime for a long time, so of course they're going to advertise his presence.
Another promotion foir the kids who thought that Team Plasma were banned. ANd I think that Team Plasma was banned and because N's popularity they were forced to unbanned them.
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Satoshi's Lizardon is being brought back, randomly.
No more random than when he was brought back in Battle Frontier. Were the writers "desperate" then too?
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Myuutwo's coming back and will fight Genosect in this summer's movie.
Something almost everyone predicted would happen the moment Genesect was revealed. Your point?
The reason of this is apart of a possible re-remake early idea of the Gen I games in Game Freak heads, that the Zoroark event failed to the pouint that the writers need to give Zoroark by normal ways in B2W2. To the point that in 4th April Zoroark could debut in the anime and until now there's any merchnadise that hints it.
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The show will probably get yet another title change after Episode N ends.
Or it could just go back to being plain old
Best Wishes Season 2.
I aren't so sure of this.
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The last two ending themes have been done by girl groups in a very transparent attempt to try to cash in on the AKB fad going on right now.
Right, because the anime's never been transparent about cash-in attempts before. :rolleyes:
There's a fad oif those group in Japan The anime staff ewants that those groups made songs in the franchise.
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So what gives? Why do you think the writers feel the need to keep giving us "big events" like these in order to keep our interest in the show? I don't want to be jaded enough to think that they're doing all this to distract us from the show's many, many problems, but it honestly feels like that to me sometimes.
Alot of the stuff you mentioned aren't stuff that the writers are in charge of. Blame the marketing team and other such forces.
The marketing team is who promtoes the anime to children.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
Judging by the list given, while it DOES seem like something to pull the fans into seeing the show, I see it as "them doing this to get older fans into the show". I mean the moment we heard that Takeshi and Kasumi were going to be in flash backs, fans were ecstatic. Which means, I thought they were doing this as a "hey, older fans we are listening to your suggestions" kind of thing. As for Hikari making a cameo, didn't people wish for her to return, thus... and same with Haruka in D/P?
Watashitachi no ichibu wa, BW no sujiganeiri no fande wanainode naiyō nimotozuite, watashitachi no ichibu wa, yuiitsu no "pin no atama" dearu koto o wasurenaide kudasai.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
Joshawott Possibly because the writers realised that N is the series' most popular non-anime character at the moment, possibly out of a reaction due to the popularity of the B2W2 animated trailer, or possibly the need to jump the shark.
I'm confused by this statement. Why would it ever be within a show's interests to "jump the shark"?
To my understanding, "jumping the shark" refers to a single defining moment in a show's history where it loses all credibility and decline thus becomes inevitable, and not a generic term automatically applied to every attempt on a show's part to boost ratings, no matter how transparent (the irony being that "jump the shark" gets hurled about so much these days that the phrase itself has long lost all credibility for many, myself included).
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
Two things:
- One, the stunts I listed don't amount to much by themselves. Lizardon coming back isn't a desperate ratings grab on its own. Hikari and Potchama coming back isn't a desperate ratings grab on its own. The girl group ending theme isn't a ratings grab on its own. Etc. etc.
But when these sorts of things keep happening again and again and again, over the course of less than half a year, then yes, it does seem really gimmicky. The other series had their fair share of stunts, sure, but they at least had the sense to spread them out a bit. With Best Wishes! it seems more like a game of "what ridiculous stunt are they pulling this month. Like others have stated earlier in this thread, it's like the writers know that this show isn't good enough on its own merits and so they're being forced to pull ridiculous attention grabbers like this to get us to keep watching.
- "The Rocket-Dan vs. The Plasma-Dan" didn't upset any huge plans for the series, and there was never any "Plasma Embargo." The skipped two-parter wasn't the beginning of some massive Plasma plot; it was the conclusion of the Meteonite plot.
I'd love to hear the evidence to support the skipped two-parter being the start of anything, much less this series-altering event that so many people seem to be convinced it is.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
Let's just hope after the N arc ends they pull an Elite 4 and Champion league stunt.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
garrison-san Quote:
Originally Posted by
Joshawott Possibly because the writers realised that N is the series' most popular non-anime character at the moment, possibly out of a reaction due to the popularity of the B2W2 animated trailer, or possibly the need to jump the shark.
I'm confused by this statement. Why would it ever be within a show's interests to "jump the shark"?
To my understanding, "jumping the shark" refers to a single defining moment in a show's history where it loses all credibility and decline thus becomes inevitable, and not a generic term automatically applied to every attempt on a show's part to boost ratings, no matter how transparent (the irony being that "jump the shark" gets hurled about so much these days that the phrase itself has long lost all credibility for many, myself included).
From Wikipedia:
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The phrase is also used to refer to a particular scene, episode, or aspect of a show in which the writers use some type of "gimmick" in a desperate attempt to keep viewers' interest.
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Originally Posted by
Dogasu Two things:
- One, the stunts I listed don't amount to much by themselves. Lizardon coming back isn't a desperate ratings grab on its own. Hikari and Potchama coming back isn't a desperate ratings grab on its own. The girl group ending theme isn't a ratings grab on its own. Etc. etc.
But when these sorts of things keep happening again and again and again, over the course of less than half a year, then yes, it does seem really gimmicky. The other series had their fair share of stunts, sure, but they at least had the sense to spread them out a bit. With Best Wishes! it seems more like a game of "what ridiculous stunt are they pulling this month. Like others have stated earlier in this thread, it's like the writers know that this show isn't good enough on its own merits and so they're being forced to pull ridiculous attention grabbers like this to get us to keep watching.
- "The Rocket-Dan vs. The Plasma-Dan" didn't upset any huge plans for the series, and there was never any "Plasma Embargo." The skipped two-parter wasn't the beginning of some massive Plasma plot; it was the conclusion of the Meteonite plot.
I'd love to hear the evidence to support the skipped two-parter being the start of anything, much less this series-altering event that so many people seem to be convinced it is.
Sure, it was the intended conclusion of the Meteonite plot, but who's to say that it might not have also been the start of something else? Like Team Plasma stamping down on Team Rocket's plans because Unova is their stomping ground or something and kicking off a new storyline there? It would be very odd for Team Plasma to have been introduced but then completely ignored for 89 episodes. The Meteonite plot could have easily been resolved without the introduction of Team Plasma, so it seems weird that they would have been brought in simply for the purpose of stopping Team Rocket, then disappearing until 2 years later when they get a whole series subtitle dedicated to them.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
The Fighting Misty Let's just hope after the N arc ends they pull an Elite 4 and Champion league stunt.
Considering how Ash did in the Unova League and how battles in BW have been generally bad, I don't see how going for an Elite 4 and Champion League arc would be good, or believable for that matter.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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it's like the writers know that this show isn't good enough on its own merits and so they're being forced to pull ridiculous attention grabbers like this to get us to keep watching.
I think even without the stunts, it would have been a good show. Whatever they do just has to make sense and not just tacked on at the last minute.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
Joshawott Quote:
Originally Posted by
garrison-san Quote:
Originally Posted by
Joshawott Possibly because the writers realised that N is the series' most popular non-anime character at the moment, possibly out of a reaction due to the popularity of the B2W2 animated trailer, or possibly the need to jump the shark.
I'm confused by this statement. Why would it ever be within a show's interests to "jump the shark"?
To my understanding, "jumping the shark" refers to a single defining moment in a show's history where it loses all credibility and decline thus becomes inevitable, and not a generic term automatically applied to every attempt on a show's part to boost ratings, no matter how transparent (the irony being that "jump the shark" gets hurled about so much these days that the phrase itself has long lost all credibility for many, myself included).
From Wikipedia:
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The phrase is also used to refer to a particular scene, episode, or aspect of a show in which the writers use some type of "gimmick" in a desperate attempt to keep viewers' interest.
In that case, the phrase "jump the shark" has definitely jumped the shark, in my view. :p
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
I'm wondering why the writers would have plan to have Plasma appear once and then have them not appear again for almost 2 years. It just comes off as poor plotting, if not a gimmick.
Couldn't we have gotten this concurrently with the badge plot? It could have even spanned beyond the League.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
Dogasu But when these sorts of things keep happening again and again and again, over the course of less than half a year, then yes, it does seem really gimmicky. The other series had their fair share of stunts, sure, but they at least had the sense to spread them out a bit.
But they were all slower paced than BW. Seriously, it was announced from the getgo that BW would be faster paced than usual. The big promotional events keep happening quickly, one after the other, because the series moves fast. It has nothing to do with desperation.
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Like others have stated earlier in this thread, it's like the writers know that this show isn't good enough on its own merits and so they're being forced to pull ridiculous attention grabbers like this to get us to keep watching.
Again, the writers aren't in complete control over all of these, you should KNOW that. And seriously, Dogasu, why are you fantasizing that the writers think their work is as bad as you and other fans here think it is? Just to validate all your bashing of BW? Hate to break this to you, but the writers and the other members of the staff don't give a crap about whether or not you keep watching. You, me, and all other Poke-geeks here aren't the intended audience. BW is doing perfectly fine with it's intended audience (KIDS, most of whom haven't watched the anime from the beginning) so there's no reason these gimmicks would mean anything other than merchandizing.
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"The Rocket-Dan vs. The Plasma-Dan" didn't upset any huge plans for the series, and there was never any "Plasma Embargo." The skipped two-parter wasn't the beginning of some massive Plasma plot; it was the conclusion of the Meteonite plot.
I'd love to hear the evidence to support the skipped two-parter being the start of anything, much less this series-altering event that so many people seem to be convinced it is.
Kudos for this, though: you are absolutely right with this one.
The two-parter wouldn't heavily alter the series, so neither would it's removal.
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Originally Posted by
Joshawott I highly doubt everything about this season was planned in advance (Ash's badge case originally having a slot for the Legend Badge, but then suddenly having that slot fit the Toxic Badge is evidence of that).
Of course not. Everything about EVERY season isn't fully planned in advance. Remember how Wallace was planned for AG but then got dropped in favor of Juan? However, plans that are made are almost always made a year in advance, so saying things like "a Plasma arc was planned but got dropped due to the 3/11 disaster" is inaccurate since everything that followed in 2011 was already fully planned out by the time of the disaster, with the stuff from early 2012 currently in the planning stages, and Team Rocket being the main villains there pretty much show that it's more likely than not that there were no plans for Team Plasma's return for the rest of the Badge quest.
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Oh yeah, because I totally remember Charizard coming back into the show when it came to dealing with Dawn's Mamoswine and Iris' Excadrill. I'm not saying the decision to bring Charizard back is ratings, but it sure as hell isn't Dragonite.
Mamoswine and Excadrill were disobedient Pokemon. That's it. Dragonite, on the other hand, is an orange flying reptile who has a gruff personality and loves to fight powerful opponents. That's not just a similarity, that's almost an exact description of Charizard.
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Like Team Plasma stamping down on Team Rocket's plans because Unova is their stomping ground or something and kicking off a new storyline there?
The Nimbasa Subway and Milos Island arcs were planned before the two-parter got postponed. Neither had Team Plasma showing up to stamp down on Team Rocket's plans. That right there is evidence that no, Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma wasn't going to become an arc.
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It would be very odd for Team Plasma to have been introduced but then completely ignored for 89 episodes.
Team Galactic first appeared in DP's 36th episode, but were only formally introduced 33 episodes later, and the full team and their plan only came into the picture 27 episodes after that. It also took about 50 episodes for Hunter J to return to the anime after the Riolu two-parter. The anime has had a history of ignoring villains who aren't Team Rocket, and even they appear alot less frequently now.
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Originally Posted by
Ambipom666 I'm wondering why the writers would have plan to have Plasma appear once and then have them not appear again for almost 2 years. It just comes off as poor plotting, if not a gimmick.
Couldn't we have gotten this concurrently with the badge plot? It could have even spanned beyond the League.
Simple: because Team Rocket were the serious villain team in the badge plot. They even had their own evil team finale with their team leader coming in to confront the heroes personally. Team Plasma having a storyline going on at the same time would be redundant.
Anyway, I don't think it's poor plotting. I think it solves two problems from the past:
1. Having TR as the serious villain team of the badge quest means they don't appear every damn episode.
2. Having TP's plot happen all at once means no big gaps between their appearances like with Aqua/Magma and Galactic.
That's why Team Plasma taking so long to appear after the TR vs. TP two-parter is totally justified: the two-parter was not a part of their storyline. It was a part of Team Rocket's. Team Plasma had nothing to do for themselves at the moment, they were just reacting to what Team Rocket was doing. IMO, it's better to have them debut in essentially a Special Guest Star role and then wait 89 episodes before they return and have a plot of their own than to introduce them with a plot of their own and then have to wait 20 to 30 something episodes for them to show up again and the plot to resume. Of course, that two-parter never officially happened, so it's moot anyway.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
Even if they weren't "serious", the writers could STILL not make TR appear in every episode of the badge quest.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
I find it interesting to note that they had the Japanese VA of Brock voice Marlon the Gym leader. Only Japanese fans would notice it, but I guess giving Brock's VA a role on the show even though Brock himself didn't show up was a nice gesture.
Also anyone notice how Paul has never been mentioned in BW, even when Cynthia was around? Dawn didn't mention her rivals either, so it's as if the writers have purposely buried all DP characters other than them and Looker.
Re: Do all these gimmicky stunts that Best Wishes! keeps pulling seem desperate to yo
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Originally Posted by
The Fighting Misty Also anyone notice how Paul has never been mentioned in BW, even when Cynthia was around? Dawn didn't mention her rivals either, so it's as if the writers have purposely buried all DP characters other than them and Looker.
Maybe they weren't as important to mention?
