Thread: Did anyone else feel like "Season 2" of Best Wishes was the weakest part of this gen?

Best Wishes were split into three parts, "Season 1," then, "Season 2," and now, "Episode N." Since Season 2 just recently ended, anyone else find that to be the weakest portion so far?

In retrospect I feel like this is when people truly felt that Best Wishes went downhill:

- Dawn's cameo felt pointless and added nothing really. Dawn could have come back for something more interesting for her token cameo.

- The Junior Cup was awful, and consisted of nothing more than Trip glorification and Dragonite glorification, but at least Ash took it down with his Krok. Making Trip up to be such a threat when his role in the league was minor was ridiculous.

- Dragonite itself was mishandled.

- Kotetsu was probably the worst handled rival in the entire saga, which is mind blowing when you think about it.

- The Marlon Gym battle was forgettable.

- Virgil and his Eevees were COMPLETELY pointless.

- The Unova league itself is almost entirely agreed upon to be the worst league of the entire series

- A lot of the fillers from around that time weren't memorable.


I can't help but think that "Season 2" of Best Wishes was the weakest of this saga, and the worst portion of the anime in a long time. Thankfully episode N looks a hell of a lot better.

I thought that BW went downhill well before this season two, which wasn't even drastically different from the first batch of episodes anyway and just given that label to market the anime a lot more along with B2/W2. The series had an interesting start and there was promise, but I think that at least by the time the Nimbasa Gym battle came around, the series wasn't really much for me.

Even so, I agree with most of the points you brought up about the flaws of this portion of the series, especially Dawn's cameo, everything about the Junior Cup and Dragonite in general. I don't know if it was significantly weaker than the first batch of BW episodes but it wasn't any better at least for me. While I'm eager to see Episode N, I don't have that much confidence in its overall quality. It could at least end the series on a better note with involving N and Team Plasma, but that's about it.

This was really the worst season ;_; Roxie's gym was probably the only good thing that marked the start of Season 2 (AT LEAST it was memorable), and wrapping up Iris and Drayden's story was okay. But like I mentioned in other places, Dawn was unnecessary, as well as Cynthia. That whole Junior Cup was just a waste of episodes when they could've used that amount of time to create a good League arc. As for the Meloetta arc, Alder could've tagged along just fine without Cynthia (according to the games, that summer house isn't even hers so nobody would've cared if she didn't appear). And Kotetsu was completely pointless. As for Marlon, they could've made it a filler episode where Cilan challenges him to a fishing battle or something and make it an enjoyable filler instead of that stupid gym battle that was just... STUPID.

...If they even mess up Episode N, then I don't think the anime could be trusted for its quality ever again.

I thought it was great...aside from the League. >_>

I think it was good for Iris's story, but bad for Cilan's and Ash's. So overall, I'm mixed as to whether I think it's weaker than the later episodes of last season.

Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry

This was really the worst season ;_; Roxie's gym was probably the only good thing that marked the start of Season 2 (AT LEAST it was memorable), and wrapping up Iris and Drayden's story was okay. But like I mentioned in other places, Dawn was unnecessary, as well as Cynthia. That whole Junior Cup was just a waste of episodes when they could've used that amount of time to create a good League arc. As for the Meloetta arc, Alder could've tagged along just fine without Cynthia (according to the games, that summer house isn't even hers so nobody would've cared if she didn't appear). And Kotetsu was completely pointless. As for Marlon, they could've made it a filler episode where Cilan challenges him to a fishing battle or something and make it an enjoyable filler instead of that stupid gym battle that was just... STUPID.

...If they even mess up Episode N, then I don't think the anime could be trusted for its quality ever again.

The Roxie Gym battle was actually the finale of Season 1, so it doesn't count for the Season 2 arc.

Isn't episode N part of season 2? I agree with Hidden Mew that Best Wishes started going down hill long before season 2 rolled around, and I also agree that Season 2 was one clusterfuck after another. The main problem I had with Season 2 was that it was massively hyped, which ultimately led to it being a huuuuuuuuuge disappointment. Before we actually saw it we heard about returning characters like Cynthia and Dawn, a World cup, pokemon from other generations making appearances, the league to look forward to. It all seemed like the moment where Best wishes could finally gain some momentum and take off. Alas, this really wasn't so. The only highlights for season 2 for me were Krokorok evolving and the Ash vs Stephan battle in the league.

On another note, I thought the Roxie gym battle was absolutely god awful, and a terrible way for Ash to gain his 8th badge

Originally Posted by Ash's Battle Coach

Isn't episode N part of season 2? I agree with Hidden Mew that Best Wishes started going down hill long before season 2 rolled around, and I also agree that Season 2 was one clusterfuck after another. The main problem I had with Season 2 was that it was massively hyped, which ultimately led to it being a huuuuuuuuuge disappointment. Before we actually saw it we heard about returning characters like Cynthia and Dawn, a World cup, pokemon from other generations making appearances, the league to look forward to. It all seemed like the moment where Best wishes could finally gain some momentum and take off. Alas, this really wasn't so. The only highlights for season 2 for me were Krokorok evolving and the Ash vs Stephan battle in the league.

Episode N is being treated as a new arc. Makes me wonder why they didn't call it, "Season 3" or something.

Anyway I kind of agree with you that the hype they gave it with that poster and everything was a big reason for the disappointment. World tournament, Cynthia, old Pokemon, the upcoming league...jeez.

Between Iris catching a free powerhouse Dragonite, the PWTJC , and the league...I would say yes. I certainly agree that BW started going downhill before that, and BW2 merely continued to roll farther downhill, but some of the things that happened were worse than anything the first season had to offer.

I actually have to agree with you. -_- It did went downhill in season 2. Still sorta miffed at dawns cameo and I hope that episode N can turn the show around.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

- Virgil and his Eevees were COMPLETELY pointless.

Uh, not really. They still appear in merchandise such as Pokemon Kids for this month and the next, for instance, indicating that Virgil will very likely return in Episode N.

And to answer your question, no I do not feel that way. I liked Season 2 a helluva lot better, actually. Hikari's appearance, one of the primary complaints, was no less arbitrary or pointless than Kasumi's two several-episode appearances during AG imo. Everyone compares it to Haruka during the Mikuri Cup this, Hikari during the Mikuri Cup that. But we all forget that DP was in fact the first series to have such a decent sense of writing and continuity; if we compare it to AG instead, everything looks alot less ugly. And AG was a great series in itself. I'm not saying that it isn't a shame that the writing has degenerated since DP, but we all know that BW!'s degenerated state of writing is due to a concurrence of various factors (many admittedly resulting in mistakes on the part of the writers) that doomed BW! to be, at most, something at the level of AG from the start. It was never a saga with the resources for long training sessions, contest battles, or character development, and it didn't have the resources to suddenly become such a saga at the start of Season 2, although that will likely change in Episode N.

If we compare Hikari's appearance with Kasumi's in AG, either one of them, Hikari comes out very favorably. She had fantastic interaction and dynamic with all of the main characters, especially Iris. (I was actually very surprised to see her picking on Satoshi with Iris, actually!) Even at the level of the Pokemon, look at the dynamic between Mijumaru and Pochama! Whether or not you found it all amusing is beside the point; even in the Mikuri Cup, how much interaction between Haruka's and Hikari's Pokemon was there? They could have even had a little minor scene where Gonbe ate Pochama's food, but they opted out of doing anything at all. And we only saw Haruka's Fushigibana for about a second. Meanwhile, I would argue that every one of Hikari's Pokemon got at least decent screentime, the same of which could not be said for Haruka, much less Kasumi. While on the level of current-main-girl-development the Mikuri Cup gave to Hikari alot more than PWTJC did Iris, there are other factors in the equation, as I have demonstrated.

There are still a lot of complaints available--Hikari not evolving Magmarashi for instance. Or that in light of BW2 the writers arguably had an obligation to give Iris a shitload of character development during the Junior Cup and in addition had the potential to do so in the situation; she should have been given a realistic challenge and chance to grow, and had a bit more difficulty with using Kairyu. But many people simply complain about the fact that Iris has gotten more focus at all coupled with longings for the days of the Mikuri Cup, which is really wishing for two opposite things; the fact that Iris did receive so much more focus suggests that perhaps the writers were attempting to go more of the DP-Hikari path from the start of Season 2.

I really do find Season 2 to be very comparable to AG, especially the beginning of the BF arc. Both sagas had a slew of neat ideas, cool choices of promotional Pokemon, and the like, but the writing turned out to be rather subpar. Yet despite this, I nevertheless found the BF saga to be incredibly enjoyable, as a flawed version of a neat idea is still a neat idea. Operation Tempest, the Shizui Battle, Hikari's reappearance, Kotetsu, Virgil, Shaga, Shirona, the fillers... all of these threads may have failed to be put together as coherently and as neatly as we would have liked, but they still all turned out to give us a neat little sub-saga. Most of all, I say this from an aesthetic point of view (which Pokemon and characters were promoted, in what situations, etc) which is arguably just as important in the equation as anything else.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

Episode N is being treated as a new arc. Makes me wonder why they didn't call it, "Season 3" or something.

Anyway I kind of agree with you that the hype they gave it with that poster and everything was a big reason for the disappointment. World tournament, Cynthia, old Pokemon, the upcoming league...jeez.

I imagine that season two only got that title in order for the anime to have a two in the title to tie in with B2/W2 even more. I do remember how much they hyped it up with all of those promos, so that definitely factored into how disappointing it turned out for many people too. Although, I think it was pretty weird that they made such a big deal about this arc when it first premiered and then it felt pretty much the same from the previous installment of the series.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

Anyway I kind of agree with you that the hype they gave it with that poster and everything was a big reason for the disappointment. World tournament, Cynthia, old Pokemon, the upcoming league...jeez.

You do realize that Episode N isn't any different in that regard, right? It is far too early to declare it as an improvement; we don't know how good it will really be.

To be perfectly honest, I started to lose interest in BW during the original saga...after the 4th gymbattle I think. BW2 didn't feel like a true step down in comparison to BW1. After the 4th gym I only watched episodes that seemed interesting to me, skipped many episodes of the anime because of that.

The battles were pretty lame in both sagas, TR sucked in both ( sure, in BW2 their plot was hyped like crazy but I wasn't expecting much here either), the characters of the Pokémon were kept at a bare minimum most of the time, too much focus on Pikachu was also part of BW1 and BW2...sooooo I don't really think that BW2 was much worse then BW1.

Sure, there are some issues with Hikari's terrible visit but I wasn't really looking forward to her anyway. The Pochama VS Miju scenes were cute, everything else about her guest visit sucked though.

The real shocker was the league. I knew it wouldn't be as good as the 3 leagues before it ( thanks to Eevee-dude and Shooti) but, wow, I didn't expect that trainwreck of a league. I think this badly written Don Battle-arc in disguise is the reason why so many people consider BW2 as worse than BW1. Poor Zuruggu got nothing from it...hell, almost everybody who wasn't a mouse, a pig or an overrated fanfavourite furrball got cheated.

But there were a few hidden gems within the saga, I can't deny that. BW as a whole just really baffles me because it is full of missed opportunities. Gen 5 is FILLED with awesome Pokémon yet only a handful of them got to battle properly. It really hurts when the league and the Junior Cup feature so many old Pokémon in important roles and even worse: why give Kotetsu only 5 Pokémon against Satoshi for no reason other than promoting Lucario of the rest of his team?

I'm indifferent about it. I didn't think it was any better or worse than Season 1, and dividing it up seemed like a good way to reintroduce Hikari and Pokemon from past regions; the first arc of Best Wishes was mostly focused on the Isshu Pokemon, and the gym leaders and whatnot.

- The whole Meleotta thing was....idk? I don't think it was rushed, if anything it...dragged on a bit? At first I thought Meleotta was kind of cute, and Mijumaru and Pochama's rivalry over her was cute and silly, but sometimes it felt like Meleotta was there just to...be there. I didn't really care one way or the other about her, didn't care that the Rockets wanted to capture her and use her for this terrible evil thing, she was just....there.

- Hikari returning was enjoyable, and not entirely pointless. Fans that were watching BW probably had at least watched some of DP, and wanted to see her again. Having her back to compete in a tournament that wasn't a contest was a bit...out of place? But I did enjoy her interactions with Iris & Dent, especially with Iris. Plot wise...okay, she didn't do much, but it was nice to see her again, see how she's grown as a trainer since DP ended, and even battle Satoshi again.

- Cynthia returning wasn't much of a surprise seeing as she was in the same place in the games. Again, not much of a big deal, and she didn't have nearly as much of a part as she did in DP, not that she would. But, I did enjoy that she helped Iris out with her Kairyu, and that she was the one that explained that they needed to understand one another. It felt appropriate, especially in how much Iris had looked up to her and was fangirling over her when the first met. This, I did like.

- Virgil and the Eevees was pointless from an anime perspective, but have you seen how much fucking merch the Eevees have gotten in the last 2ish months? A LOT. The anime helps promote Pokemon Center promotions at times, and this was exactly that. Show off how cute they are, promote the merch, sell sell buy buy whatever. Eeveeloutions are already ridiculously popular with or without the promotion in the anime, but I think a lot of it was done for the newer, younger fans, that may not know as much about them. Personally, I wish Virgil had either been introduced earlier, or...done more in general. He had a lot of potential story with all of the Eevees, and it seemed so rushed and a bit wasted.

- Kotetsu is a character I also felt was entirely rushed. I would have liked for him to have been introduced earlier in the series so we had more of a feel for him before the League started. I felt that while he and Satoshi did have time to bond, it wasn't as deep as those relationships with rivals past, nor was it anything special or memorable. Kotetsu was silly, a bit annoying, but I didn't love him or hate him. He was just...kind of there.

- The Junior Cup wasn't all that special or memorable, besides Shooti finally getting to battle Adeku. It made me so happy that they came back to that plot point about him, because honestly I thought it had been forgotten. But Shooti himself...eh.

- The League was just...rushed. It didn't have the same impact that Leagues past had, with the rivals, and these big dramatic battles, or any of that. The rivals were there, and there were battles, but it just didn't even feel like the League at all to me.

But overall, I wouldn't say that I HATED Season 2 by any means. There were many enjoyable points in it for me: Iris catching Kairyu, (Kairyu's grumbly, adorable personality in general), Iris going back to the Dragon Village, Hikari meeting Satoshi's new traveling partners, Cynthia teaching Iris about Kairyu...and even the filler episodes were pretty okay. Overall, I don't love it, but I don't hate it either.

To be honest i thought BW series were already one big mess full of missed opportunities before second season even started. Premise behind ideas was interesting but their execution was pretty bad imo for most part.

Only reason why second season can be viewed as bigger disappointment is all that hype about new games, competitions and promotion of older pokemon and characters starting to come back, leading people in false hope of things changing for better.

-One of biggest disappointments was world tournament from games, which got anything but proper adaptation on screen. Junior Cup felt more like glorified Don George battle club than competition on world scale really, having local competition with only Dawn, Ash and Cynthia as host being participants outside of Unova.

There were so many wasted opportunities with this opening gateway toward return of some of past gym leaders, popular ex main characters like Misty or Brock for promotional purposes etc but everything was skipped delivering us pageant composed of short montage battles, Trip glorification trying to portray him as actual threat building up on his strength over night and overpowered Dragonite going on rampage.

In fact whole Dragonite subplot could have been executed much better. From rushed with no build up capture up before tournament, bad timing subjecting whole tournament to deal with his issues along with most problems being pointed out or resolved through third party(whether its Ash, elder or Cynthia)rather than Iris itself to cure of disobedience coming of in unbelievable manner.

-About Dawn cameo, well im not one of those who thought it was entirely "pointless". Since i did enjoyed in her interactions with Ash, Cilan and Iris building up pretty cool friendship, and i liked fact that she battled all three characters from main cast.

But ill readily admit how Misty and May cameos happen to be more meaningful. With Misty cameos in first part we received some character development and evolution of Togepi providing closure to said subplot. And whole episodes revolved solely about her coming of as main star in them. Same goes for second part with her presence helping Max to restore his relationship with May going through memorable bonding together and in both appearances we got actual update. In form of new clothes, pokemon, what happened in meantime etc.

May appearance gave us coverage on her Johto journey and how contest career is going on, how much her team changed and she played valuable role in serving as intermediate which helped Dawn to restore her confidence back.

In comparison during Dawn guest appearance there was no update, changes to her team , what happened in meantime and aside from serving as prelude to revelation of real core of problem behind Dragonite disobedience relating to Iris, since she had same issues with Mamoswine here involvement in t9urnament was largely overshadowed by others.

Still to be fair Dawn also came back under most unfavorable circumstances, not being possible to do a whole lot with coordinator in region without contests. So all in all given all factors i can say i still enjoyed in Dawn guest return.

-Now, league was possibly worst disappointment of them all. Majority of battles like i was afraid from beginning were rushed and simplified. League in itself lasted only for what 5 episodes?(shortest one so far). Just to be interrupted in middle with pointless filler about Axew which as usual contained no development.

And structure of whole tournament was ridiculously bad. From main rival Trip dropping out from tournament in first round being treated as complete joke, to trainer even more clueless and absentminded managing to defeat Ash despite using only 5 pokemon in 6 on 6 battle. Never mind fact how last minute introduction of rival Virgil was pointless serving no purpose but to promote Eevee line.

Since Ash never had opportunity to battle him nor we really saw much of his skills and pokemon in action attending to terrible finale taking home win through Eevee (how "spectacular").
Only battle i can say i truly enjoyed was battle against Stephan being one of those confrontations full of tension, actual strategy and interesting moves.

But that alone couldn't have saved Unova conference from turning into disaster.

Now that i think about it almost every rival in Unova ended up to be joke. Whether its Langley, Burgundy, Bianca or Trip.

I guess most enjoyable thing from BW season 2 was confrontation against TR, Giovanni and dr. Zager. It was nice to see Giovanni attempts of trying to use Meloetta to his own evil plans to take control of Kami trio and conquer Unova. Seeing him defeat Ash trying to kill him and company was interesting enough as well, but like most things in BW series whole arc about TR was short with too many things being crammed in too short period of time.

Aside from that most of things from second season of BW series while having lot of potential to end up as spectacular saga due to poor planning and writing ended as pile full of missed opportunities.

So yes, i would lie if i said how i was pleased with way things turn out in this series with first season containing less frustration and misplays than second part. Here's hoping N saga will be Unova redemption point, although at this point i don't expect much.