You can make things interesting and exciting to children without ruining the storyline of characters. Tepig's evolution was well developed and justified, but it didn't make it any less exciting for viewers than something like Roggenrola evolving out of nowhere to win from behind.
Mid battle evolutions and coming from behind to win can certainly be exciting, but only when it's infrequent. Even with Krabby there was a slight storyline over the competition with the other Krabby that Gary caught, Ash's tiny Krabby coming in and being really powerful despite being small is a good story.
Dragonite is cheap, and overpowered. Getting it right before a tournament, having it's issue solved in two episodes after it was established....is far more cheap than Krokorok evolving. I don't what the issue is here. The fact of the matter is they gave Iris a Pokemon much stronger than MOST of his, without any training done on her part.
Say what you will about Dragonite, but Ash and his middle of the battle evolutions are becoming too unrealistic and show he's just getting lucky.
Except mid-battle evolutions, and learning new moves in battle are never considered as such. That's mostly the fandom(I myself am guilty of this) calling it a foul. You don't often see characters complaining and whining about losing because of their opponent learning new moves in battle, or evolutions luck now do you? Did Skyka whine about Ash only winning through a "luck" evolution when he beat her? No. Or Paul bitchin at Ash that his Staravia evolved in the Poke-ringer? Nope.Originally Posted by Driller678
As I said, if Ash were still not "good" enough he would still have lost to Skyla, and Clay for example. It happened with Paul were he still lost despite evolution, Misty still lost to Ash after Poliwag evovled, as did Khroy/Lyray losing to Ash/Dawn after Khory's Totodile evolved.
Oh, and it's confirmed Dragonite is fully obeying Iris by this point, just two episodes after it's capture.
Last edited by Masurao; 10th August 2012 at 08:00 PM.
Charizard not listening.
Still the Unova Champion in my book.
And THANK ARCEUS FOR THIS! I'm glad that Iris is going to take action instead of lazing off till some wild Pokemon attacks it from which she saves it just so it could be pointlessly dragged on. Two episodes are enough. Cynthia is going to help too :D. Yay for another bad formula of this show being flushed down the drain~~~!
Dragonite listens to her, and they lose. How ironic.
Just realize this episode'll be airing while I'm enroute to Kilimanjaro Airport. Looks like I won't be able to catch Waruvile's evolution until I'm back in the states in December. By that time the entire league'll probably be over.
I agree it's kinda disappointing Dragonite's disobedience lasts so short. I highly doubt it listening to her won't be too convincing. I tend to forget just how long Charizard's lasted, but I think his was done best. Ash really had to struggle with Charizard for a long time. Doesn't look like that's the case for Iris.
Waruvile was introduced before, we saw him be a strong wild Pokémon, saw him battle Pikachu a few times, evolve, tag battle with Pikachu, be caught, get beaten in a gym battle, train, beat a Gym Leader's main Pokémon afterwards, and now it's pushed against the wall, evolves and gets another win. It's setting appropriate (i.e. Pokémon get stronger and evolve), it's building on elements introduced previously in the narrative (i.e. Waruvile battled and got stronger) and it actually makes sense with the character (i.e. Waruvile was always portrayed as a Pokémon who wanted to battle strong opponents an win against them, always trying to reach their level of strength).
The idea of evolution or a new move being learned in a trainer battle automatically being cheap completely ignores everything that came before the battle, the way the battle is written, the characters in question, etc. Here the evolution is not used to circumvent development, but rather is the result of it, it's the logical next step for Waruvile. It's not the result of luck, but what we've seen so far from Waruvile.
Take Tsutarja, it's a smaller target, it's fast so it can dodge attacks more easily. We saw it use something that ressemble Hikari's spin technique in its debut so Satoshi could have called on that. Kairyu might be powerful but if you can't hit your target, you're Dragon rushing into the ground. Plus, the spin could be combined offensively with Leaf Blade as Pachirisu did with Super Fang against Urara's Gablias. Using Vine whip to dodge attacks. Using Leaf Storm as a Counter Shield, etc. Maybe even throw in a new move learned in there to replace Attract like Mirror Coat and you have not only have a battle that's believable, but visually interesting and engaging. I would like to see the writers once again be not obvious in their writings for battle and actually make the Pokémon and their attacks so much more unique than what we've seen. I think a great deal of Satoshi and Hikari's Pokémon could and should have won against Kairyu.
Dragonite that it used against Swoobat - it's wins and training since have been against/with a Beartic. Having not learnt any more moves since that battle, Ash will basically be left to rely on the same things as he did against Swoobat, try and make Stone Edge hit and make attempts to jump up and Bite/Crunch Dragonite - perhaps combined with using Dig defensively.
Krokorok has some basic weaknesses and restrictions in its battling against flying Pokemon, ones that haven't been resolved or even considered since. It couldn't defeat Swoobat for a good reason.
Edit - Should add that I don't see an issue with Krokorok evolving (and presumably it will learn Outrage upon evolving which will make the win justified) - I see an issue that the evolution of one of Ash's Pokemon mid battle fundamentally changes the outlook for the battle and that Ash's choice of Pokemon isn't on the basis of 'perhaps it could evolve mid battle'. Ash chooses Krokorok as a Krokorok with its current moves, because of its weaknesses and inflexibility in fighting flying Pokemon, it's a choice that's made that is likely to result in defeat.
The situation could have been made better by a previous episode training Krokorok to deal with Flying Pokemon, learning another long distance move, having a tactic in battle other than 'hope stone edge hits'.
If these battles weren't one on one and Ash was sending Krokorok out first in the knowledge that he had a backup it wouldn't matter all that much. This evolution seemingly has to happen to overcome several massive flaws in how this tournament and Dragonite are being written.
Last edited by Moe; 11th August 2012 at 08:27 PM.
Really I have no problem about Ash's Pokemon evolving in midbattle because it is show that Ash's Pokemon has the will power to continue on even when the odds are agianst them. I can said that all of Ash's Pokemon that evolve in the gym battle wants to show there strength to Ash and their oppentents and their will to never give up for their trainer.
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