Thread: BW103: "Opening of the Isshu League Higaki Conference!"

Originally Posted by Shinneth

And why should I want Ash to win when the majority of his Pokemon haven't graduated past goddamn Tackle?

Only Pignite and Leavanny can use Tackle now, and Leavanny never used that move on-screen ever since he had evolved from Swadloon. Oshawott previously knew Tackle, although it appears that the move had been replaced with Hydro Pump in BW087. In both Pignite and Leavanny's cases, both pokemon have access to powerful moves (Flamethrower, Energy Ball) and somewhat strong moves like Razor Leaf and Flame Charge in addition to Tackle. Ironically, Pignite and Oshawott had the most development and focus out of the pokemon on his Unova team.

Originally Posted by Shinneth

Most of the Pokemon with actual character have not only failed to evolve, but failed to develop decent move sets.

That has only been the case with Snivy and Palpitoad (Ash caught him in his evolved form); they have not learned any new moves since they were caught. Snivy can still use Leaf Storm and Leaf Blade, and Palpitoad can use Supersonic and Hydro Pump.

Pikachu, Scraggy, and Oshawott-- all of whom have "character"-- have all learned new and powerful attacks ever since the start of Best Wishes!. Scraggy can now use Hi Jump Kick and Focus Blast. Oshawott can now use Aqua Jet and Hydro Pump. Pikachu can now use Electro Ball in addition to its already powerful Iron Tail and Thunderbolt moves.

Trip should beat Bianca to avenge co keldurr

Originally Posted by Zistal

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

Virgil is there to promote Eevee forms, there is no new 6th gen form debuting. They NEVER keep new pokemon a secret, they hype them up ahead of time.

We aren't even at that "ahead of time" considering the League is still over a month away and probably won't be over until early next year. Not sure where you're getting the idea that if a new Pokemon is on the way, they have to show it off multiple months ahead of the time it will actually be appearing either. This is based on what precedent exactly?

Considering in December TPC will be appearing at Jump Festa to show something, and that month will likely be around the middle or still somewhat early in the League...

I assure you that no 6th gen Eevee form is set to debut at the league, no matter what else happens.

To be fair, I think people are being just a little harsh on BW. Let's not forget that Satoshi didn't even get any rivals in Houen prior to the Saiyuu Tournament, and yet that tournament was arguably the best the anime had seen prior to that point. The problem is not that we haven't had a sufficient number of rivals so far in BW, but rather that we've had a plethora of mediocre ones. In short, I am fairly confident that Kotetsu and Virgil will still provide us with some great (if not somewhat familiar) rivalries for the Higaki League, if only we can ignore all of the pre-league rivals like Shooti.

Originally Posted by ArginX

The fact that the League is starting by next month tells me that we're going to see another saga after the League is over; I can't recall any league lasting more than roughly 3 months, which would leave us with a solid half a year until Gen VI. At this point, I'd say our best bet is another World Tournament. It doesn't require another long-winded schlepp like the BF did, as there are no new leaders for Satoshi to hunt down. Alternatively, the writers could resolve to give us another schlepp in the form of Satoshi hunting down the Four Emperors and battling them one by one. Or they could have Satoshi win this PWT and be able to also battle the Four Emperors. At this point, I certainly wouldn't rule out either another PWT or a Four Emperors scenario. (or both) Either way, we have seven months following the League; hell, seeing as though Gen V is set to be a year shorter than the last two generations, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Gen VI being released next November like Gen III was, in which we would have nine months post-league. Either way, there's certainly a sufficient amount of time for Best Wishes to give us a final year that at least somewhat makes up for some of their earlier disappointments.

If you want to talk about what happens after the League, you can use this thread right here.

I'm expecting this to be a typical League opening episode. Mainly filler fights. (please give Palpitoad a nice win:)) Hopefully a phone call to good ol' Pallet Town. It would be nice to see Oak. An added Tracey and Mrs. Ketchum appearance would be even better. If nothing else a cameo of some of his old Pokemon wishing him luck would be awesome since they most likely won't be participating. (That's probably reaching a bit.) I will be very curious to hear his reasoning for not using them because he did in the Sinnoh League. (I know he only had 7 but in the Hoenn League he only had 6. So him having 10 shouldn't be a factor.)

As far as Ash's chances go in the League as a whole i'm a little more optimistic than most. People keep pointing out his team being somewhat underdeveloped and weak..but compare it to his Hoenn team and it's better in my opinion. He lost to the guy that ended up winning the Hoenn League as well, BARELY. I'd take his Pignite and Krookodile as powerhouses over Grovyle. So, him winning wouldn't be a stretch to me.

He'll lose to Virgil. Based on all the other leagues, It has to be Virgil. New character appears just before or during the league, and has some sort of out of the ordinary/uber/random pokemon, that Ash ends up losing 2. We know nothing about this guy, apart from the fact that he has the eeveelutions and at least 8 badges. And I doubt any new eeveelutions are going to pop up.

Kotetsu kinda fits the bill as well, except he doesn't seem good enough to beat Ash based on the very little we have seen from him.

Best case scenario, Ash ends up losing to Bianca. Most likely Scenario, He loses to Virgil.

Originally Posted by Ampharos King

Originally Posted by Shinneth

And why should I want Ash to win when the majority of his Pokemon haven't graduated past goddamn Tackle?

Only Pignite and Leavanny can use Tackle now, and Leavanny never used that move on-screen ever since he had evolved from Swadloon. Oshawott previously knew Tackle, although it appears that the move had been replaced with Hydro Pump in BW087. In both Pignite and Leavanny's cases, both pokemon have access to powerful moves (Flamethrower, Energy Ball) and somewhat strong moves like Razor Leaf and Flame Charge in addition to Tackle. Ironically, Pignite and Oshawott had the most development and focus out of the pokemon on his Unova team.

Originally Posted by Shinneth

Most of the Pokemon with actual character have not only failed to evolve, but failed to develop decent move sets.

That has only been the case with Snivy and Palpitoad (Ash caught him in his evolved form); they have not learned any new moves since they were caught. Snivy can still use Leaf Storm and Leaf Blade, and Palpitoad can use Supersonic and Hydro Pump.

Pikachu, Scraggy, and Oshawott-- all of whom have "character"-- have all learned new and powerful attacks ever since the start of Best Wishes!. Scraggy can now use Hi Jump Kick and Focus Blast. Oshawott can now use Aqua Jet and Hydro Pump. Pikachu can now use Electro Ball in addition to its already powerful Iron Tail and Thunderbolt moves.

I would imagine Oshawott replaced water gun with Hydro pump, and not tackle. Makes more sense to replace a Water stream attack with a more powerful water stream attack, similar to Tepig replacing ember with Flamethrower. Plus there is nothing to indicate that Leavanney has replaced tackle with anything. As far as we know, it still knows it. Also a Fully evolved grass type (3 stage grass type no less) knowing razor leaf is a little pathetic. Pignite's move set isn't too bad, but he really needs a fighting type move, like brick break. And Leavanney doesn't even have an offensive Bug type move. It should have learnt X-scissor or something ages ago.

Snivy's move set has become very stale, and Palpitoad is still lacking in a 4th move. Oshawott's is ok, Scraggy's isn't too bad but that can be excused by him still being relatively young, and as far as im concerned, Pikachu should never have gotten rid of Volt tackle

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

Assuming none of the rivals battle each other, I assume it'll be like this:

3 on 3 matches:

- Ash Vs. Stephen
- Ash Vs. Kotetsu
- Ash Vs. Bianca

6 on 6 natches:

- Ash Vs. Virgil
- Ash Vs. Trip


The league will go on for the usual 8 or so episodes, and with the first 3 rivals getting one episode and the last two getting 2 episodes, it seems about right.


Also keep in mind all of Ash's Unova Pokemon are probably going to get at least one battle. You need room for them all + Pikachu.

He also needs room for his reserves

Ash losing to Virgil seems plausible, but I would be annoyed if that happened. A team of Eeveelutions is hardly something to boast about, and I'd rather see a Trollbias than Virgil winning.

I want only one thing.

Ash to lose to Trip, with Trip revealing himself to be Paul re-incarnate (he commited suicide after losing to Ash). Looking at it, the only Pokémon that Ash might really struggle against in the league are Trip's. If Ash lost to any other rival it would be an unrealistic victory (especially if it were Kotetsu)

Originally Posted by AlphaMouse

Ash losing to Virgil seems plausible, but I would be annoyed if that happened. A team of Eeveelutions is hardly something to boast about, and I'd rather see a Trollbias than Virgil winning.

I want only one thing.

Ash to lose to Trip, with Trip revealing himself to be Paul re-incarnate (he commited suicide after losing to Ash). Looking at it, the only Pokémon that Ash might really struggle against in the league are Trip's. If Ash lost to any other rival it would be an unrealistic victory (especially if it were Kotetsu)

How is ferrothorn and samurott crappy or weak? I'll admit the last guy I want him losing to is kotetsu but the kid has a good team. But I like the idea of paul killing himself and coming back from the dead as trip.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

I assure you that no 6th gen Eevee form is set to debut at the league, no matter what else happens.

It is more likely to happen than Ash winning the league, especially as Eevee will rather clearly be a threat either way. As Zistal said, they don't need to reveal a new Pokémon so much ahead of time. Blaziken was revealed in CoroCoro less than a month prior to its anime debut. If the league lasts seven episodes and Virgil beats Ash, then their battle will end on the January 10th episode. This means that if either CoroCoro or Jump Festa reveal a new Eeveelution in mid-December, there will be enough time to hype its anime debut.

The writers love to pull off mid-battle evolutions in Best Wishes. It is hardly bizarre that Virgil's Eevee is going to be introduced unevolved; the only question is if they're angling for a new evolution or establishing Eevee as a powerhouse in its own right.

Originally Posted by pokemonsquared

I'll admit the last guy I want him losing to is kotetsu but the kid has a good team.

His Riolu also has a good chance of evolving into Lucario, since the latter is going to be promoted soon in relation to the anime.

I don't see Ash losing to Virgil at all. His Eevee team has all been featured in the past and there's not much you can do with them to make them look extremely powerful.

Not to mention assuming its a 6 on 6, a few of his Eeveelutions won't even be used in battle anyway. Ash's current team may not be his strongest, but I don't see why they couldn't take down an Eevee team.

The difference is there's no "special" Eevee form that the writers would promote as being the last one standing for Ash to lose to. I very much doubt there's going to be a 6th gen Eevee...so is Ash going to wind up losing to an Umbreon or Glaceon as his last opponent? I find something like that unlikely.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

I don't see Ash losing to Virgil at all. His Eevee team has all been featured in the past and there's not much you can do with them to make them look extremely powerful.

You can say that about Ash's team.

Ash's current team may not be his strongest, but I don't see why they couldn't take down an Eevee team.

Virgil's team focus on synergy, which is what their debut episode will show. Ash's team work as individual members.

Not to mention assuming its a 6 on 6, a few of his Eeveelutions won't even be used in battle anyway.

So? Two of the evolutions can be showcased in one of Virgil's other battles, if only for a minute or so.

The difference is there's no "special" Eevee form that the writers would promote as being the last one standing for Ash to lose to. I very much doubt there's going to be a 6th gen Eevee...so is Ash going to wind up losing to an Umbreon or Glaceon as his last opponent? I find something like that unlikely.

Eevee is the special member. It doesn't even matter whether or not it is going to evolve; something special will happen with it or the point of promoting it via the league would be defeated.

The build-up to this league just hasn't felt that exciting. I guess that may have something to do with the fact that there was a 5-year gap between leagues last time, and only 2 this time. In another context - at the time of the Sinnoh League, about 38% of the entire series' run of episodes were between the Hoenn and Sinnoh Leagues - whereas now, only about 15% of the series run has been between the Sinnoh and Unova Leagues.

That being said - despite the general sense of apathy for the League that seems to be the vibe, mostly because of the mediocre buildup, I've got fairly high hopes for the League itself. The Sinnoh League felt really rushed, in my opinion. It seemed that there really wasn't much thought put into how to structure anything besides the (admittedly epic) Ash vs Paul battle. No prelims, every battle besides Ash vs. Paul confined to one episode, straight knockout format for the whole tournament and of course the infamous squash match as the finale. I kind of hope that without the constraint of new games on the immediate horizon, and without the need for a 3-episode battle with Trip (I shudder at the thought), they can avoid a repeat of last time where the whole event was one key battle with everything else as an afterthought.

I'm wondering if there will be three 6VS6 battles like in the Hoenn League. I suppose not since only Trip and Virgil have full teams that we know of, but it would be nice if the writers gave Bianca proper development and culmination.