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Thread: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

  1. #346
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    Taking in a factor into account, what if Mammoo was stronger than Tsunbear?
    In my opinion, he is stronger, because he can pull from both power battling and contest battling, so he's more versatile, he's taken on some strong foes, he's trained with Satoshi's DP pokémon in the League, he's been effective in contests, good moves, etc. That being said, I don't think that Tsunbear is weak or completely defenseless, nor should he have been portrayed as such, but that was dodgy writing. What I disagree with is the argument that subsequent battles must have Kairyu demolishing his opponent as to justify that Tsunbear was demolished.

    Not really. If I were in Hikari's place, I'd be more focused in attacking Kairyu instead of trying to 'woo' the audience. Contest style tactics would only lead to her demise since they are not the most effective moves.
    I disagree with that. Despite what some say, contest battles aren't just about sparkles, but more so about negating your opponent's attacks, turning them against them and making them work to your advantage. We saw just that when Hikari was pretty much owning Dent in their battle. It's about making your opponent's power work against them, and that's been portrayed as the style that Hikari developed over the course of DP, which would be really effective against Kairyu, but it seems we'll be treated to Mammoo trying to ram the Pokémon that withstood plenty of attacks last time around and throw attacks at him as opposed to see Hikari do her thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiplet View Post
    Considering that this, judging by the scans/preview, is leading up to some development between Iris and Dragonite, which probably would’ve been wasted if he didn’t win that battle against Georgia.
    Development is change. There's no change in Iris' character and Kairyu's disobedience didn't even seem to really make her mad, sad, doubtful, affect her in any way. She's not the problem, there's nothing that she has to change, to learn, to grow from to solve this, this is just about Kairyu realizing he's nothing without Iris. Again, it's an artificial and extremely contrived way to try to instill tension in the characters, as it doesn't really make sense, but once again fails because there's no follow-through in terms of execution, no real consequences, no real effect. It's hollow and doesn't really need anywhere. There's much more potential for development in a loss because it confronts the character as a trainer, establishes something they lack, something they can improve. It can make them progress.

    You’d think that Dragonite, who already has been established to possess tremendous power, should be able to beat Mamoswine just as easily.
    No, first of all, Hikari might not train specifically to defeat dragons, but she fought against dragons several times, defeating Gabite twice. She's trained extensively in battles alongside Satoshi, she's fought in many regular battles against other trainers, both in tag battles with Satoshi or Kohei, learning from them. A lot of Satoshi's techniques in DP were adapted from her contests showing her style can translate well into battles. So no, I don't think it's undeserved to see her do well in a battling tournament with Pokémon she's trained and really turned into powerful Pokémon. Hikari isn't being made to look good in this episode, if anything the preview imply that she's underperforming a lot, not really using her style, her usual strategies that were very effective in the past, really being downgraded to make Iris' comeback look more believable, cause it doesn't look like Iris is going to outstrategize Hikari, but rather just do her usual routine of spouting out attacks, have her Pokémon be able to withstand a thousand hits without being affected and win with one or two attacks because her pokémon have so much more raw power than everyone else's. Point is, they downgraded both Langley and Hikari here to give Iris some undeserved achievement in making it to the semis to give Iris results while once against bypassing the process.

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    Leopard Owner Trainer Yusuf's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    One thing I'm extremely disappointed about the preview and the title is that it heavily implies one thing: Hikari not using contest style battling, but just spouting attacks and trying to overpower the Kairyu she just saw overpower a Tsunbear and resist countless super effective attacks. It's downgrading her character heavily cause she was always portrayed as being much smarter than this and it's not her style. It's been established as not being her style. She's supposed to be there to prepare herself for contests and in her battles doesn't use contest style tactics... it's kinda sickening how much they're throwing Hikari under the bus to give some more undeserved achievements to Iris. The bottom of the Iris bus is red with blood with how many characters were thrown under there.
    I completely disagree. Personally Hikari using a far more physical style(that is, in the entirety of Season 2) is just natural progression. Urara and Mammoo always called her out for not doing so, Kengo relies heavily on power, and Nozomi and Naoshi are far more balanced in terms of power vs. appeals than she is(it helps that they have better teams too, at least in current situation). If anything, she is taking Mammoo's and Urara's disappointment towards her to heart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwarden View Post
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    Registered User Aura7541's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Quote Originally Posted by Callisto View Post
    I am going to pretend like I don't already know Dawn gets (unfairly) beaten by Iris in this episode and cheer for Dawn and Mamoswine to win.

    GO DAWN AND MAMOSWINE!!!!!! *throws confetti* I know you two can overcome bad writing!!!!!
    I, too, will still root for Dawn despite already knowing what's going to happen. Yeah, we all know she's going to lose, but does that make her a worse trainer than Iris just because she lost to her? Definitely not. The fact that she and her Mamoswine are able to hold their ground against a fully evolved pseudo-legendary who is a battling prodigy is already quite a feat right there.

    I kind of wished that Dawn used her Togekiss instead of her Mamoswine. Togekiss is more elegant and evasive, and thus, be better suited against Dragonite. This episode was a good opportunity for the writers to showcase Dawn's other Pokemon, but alas, Piplup and Mamoswine will still be her only Pokemon that have been shown battling. Unless Dawn continues to hang around after the tournament, I have no idea on whether her other Pokemon will be showcased at all.
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    MEGA F'ING AMPHAROS!!! Ampharos King's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Even when it participated in contests, I felt Mamoswine was as its best when it used powerful offensive attacks. It may have been true that Mamoswine had access to Ice Shard and learned Hidden Power in DP to serve as its long-range attacks. But, when the pokemon was pitted in its first contest battle and Dawn had it combine those attacks (and Take Down) to deduct a large amount of points from their opponent, in the end all Mamoswine needed to win that battle was its Take Down. At that point, it felt that brute force was a battle style that worked best for Mamoswine, and the pokemon insisted on using that power to win that contest for Dawn. The only problem was that Dawn and Mamoswine were up against a pair of opponents who were more compatible with one another and had fought Dawn's Mamoswine enough times to predict its attacks.

    Dawn's contest style, which focuses on combining several attacks into something unique as well as using an opponent's strength against them, never worked for Mamoswine directly. That's why the pairing quickly lost synch when Mamoswine fought James' Carnivine. Mamoswine managed to win other contest battles for Dawn because it used its moves to assist other pokemon who better adjusted to Dawn's battling style. Whether it worked alongside Cyndaquil or Pachirisu, Mamoswine always acted as a pillar of support for that other pokemon. There were contest moments in which Dawn did rely on Mamoswine's brute force, but that was never enough to deduct a large number of points from the opponents or to take them out directly.

    Dawn and Mamoswine are expected to fight differently here than they had in the past because this isn't a contest. In regular battles, points aren't deducted for countering attacks. Winning "regular" battles does require brute force, which is what Mamoswine best offers to Dawn's team. This is why Dawn insisted on using Mamoswine in that practice battle against Ash's Pignite, and why she plans to use it here in the tournament. Dawn probably feels that none of her other pokemon have enough strength to take down Iris's Dragonite.

    Dawn's regular battling style, the one that focuses on turning an opponent's raw power against them, just won't work against Dragonite. Dragonite was able to deflect all of Beartic's long-distance attacks and continued to fight back as if it did not take any damage at all. Most of Dawn's pokemon are mid to long-distance fighters so their attacks will likely not work on Dragonite. Dawn has to approach this battle differently from when she fought Ursula's pokemon or Cilan and his Pansage. This battle is not a measure of Dawn's contest skills depreciating in the face of an overwhelming opponent. Mamoswine is Dawn's best answer to battle an opponent so powerful that brute force is necessary to stop it.

    Adapting one's battling style to better match his or her opponent is what a coordinator should be best at. Zoey also said numerous times in DP that a trainer/coordinator has to adapt to the pokemon's style, and not the other way around. Mamoswine's battle style necessitates brute force and direct attacks.
    Last edited by Ampharos King; 6th August 2012 at 04:18 PM.
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  5. #350
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    Personally Hikari using a far more physical style(that is, in the entirety of Season 2) is just natural progression. Urara and Mammoo always called her out for not doing so, Kengo relies heavily on power
    And yet in all three of the characters you've mentioned, it was shown that relying too much on raw power and trying to knock out their opponent was their fatal flaw. Pretty much every battle that involved Hikari in DP was about power being important, but still falling short without a good strategy and how too much power could actually turn against a Pokémon. The way she used Mammoo in the past already had her using its raw power and ability to take a hit, but increasingly supplemented that to make the best out of his style and make his attacks more effective, as with the increasingly intricate and versatile Ice Armor. It started off as just being pretty and making Mammoo's ice moves more powerful, to growing a horn making Take down more powerful. Her achieving balance between power and appeal is how she beat Urara in the Grand Festival. The logical progression would have been to build on that. But what we see in the preview very much looks like Mammoo continuously running towards Kairyu without really any thought or strategy.

    If anything, it would have been very interesting to see Kairyu's eagerness to fight and carelessness actually cost him in a battle against an opponent that went through the same thing, but alas that flaw doesn't really seem to be exploited. I really wish we could have seen Mammoo (or another of Hikari's pokémon) serve the same kind of medecine that Kojirou served Mammoo in their contest, and beat him through tiring him out, turning his power against him and striking in the opening that's creating, as was their style in DP. We know Mammoo's not going to be the one to rely on speed and elegant dodges, but that doesn't mean that he and Hikari have nothing whatsoever in their toolbox to do just that to Kairyu. Alas, Take down spam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos King View Post
    Dawn's contest style, which focuses on combining several attacks into something unique as well as using an opponent's strength against them, never worked for Mamoswine directly.
    It did in the beginning of both her latter matches against Urara. In the first one, she built an entire combination around Mammoo's take down that took a big chunk of Urara's points, and in the third match, she used Pachirisu as a diversion to create an opening for Mammoo to rush Gabite and Booster, and cause some damage to them. What I'm deploring here is that it doesn't look like we'll be seeing combinations that really enhance Mammoo's style in this battle. What would happen if it ate Hidden Power or Ancient Power? Could it use Ancientpower against the ground to create a wall of rock and make a possible Kairyu rushing towards him work against Kairyu? Using the environment, combinations, etc. to make their style shine, those are all things that Hikari was shown to do in the past (and by past, I mean... 5 episodes ago...), but here, she just seems to be spouting attacks and not really thinking anything through, not really having a strategy, nothing... It's disappointing.

    Zoey also said numerous times in DP that a trainer/coordinator has to adapt to the pokemon's style, and not the other way around. Mamoswine's battle style necessitates brute force and direct attacks.
    Again, Hikari has already adapted her appeal-oriented style to Mammoo's physical defense/offense style by enhancing it, taking it further by injecting her own strategies and combinations. DP was always about the trainer conjugating their style with that of their Pokémon, in partnership where both combine to form something unique. With all the techniques and style that Hikari had in DP, this is a serious downgrade.

  6. #351
    Even Rocky had a Montage AlphaMouse's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Yay! First Post!

    Yeah, it kinda sucks that Dawn loses, but oh well.

    I wonder who the CoTDs will face.

    I think

    Reniculus Guy: Ash

    Cincinno Guy: Iris

    Heatmoor Guy: Dawn

    Then Trip vs Cilan rematch.

    Can I just ask, what event(s) is/are stalling this ep for an extra two weeks

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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eneci View Post
    glad that Crustle get's it's ass kicked! :D boring that Trip is using Serperior again! seems like a nice battle episode er just have to wait 3 weeks aka 18 days !
    What do you mean using Serperior again? It's a starter evolution, so just like when the Piplup evolution was spammed alot by Barry, it was for advertisement purposes. Besides, Serperior is shown to be a true badass Pokemon by being used by a rival. I thought it was going to be like one of Drew's. Which were seen as girly at times.

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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMouse View Post
    Can I just ask, what event(s) is/are stalling this ep for an extra two weeks
    The 16th is the Rocket-dan movie ranking special thing. Not sure what's happening this week, but probably Naruto got the spot. They got bumped a few weeks back when the 14th movie aired. I know there's a Naruto movie either just out or coming out very soon, so it may be their previous movie if they do the same thing as pokemon. It could also be just for baseball, as I know that's happened in the past in the summer.

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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Staff:

    Scriptwriter: Shoji Yonemura

    Asistant Director: Kazuomi Koga

    Storyboarder: Kazuomi Koga(? He has been credited twice)

    Animation Director: Kunihiko Natsume

    2chan post: http://toro.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/anime/1344256745/

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMouse View Post
    Can I just ask, what event(s) is/are stalling this ep for an extra two weeks
    Adding on GreatLover's post, there IS an hour long Naruto Special in August 9th. Here is the link(link). They are taking our time because we took theirs due to Roxie one hour special.

    In addition to that, we will get another break sometime later due as Victini movies aired on TVTokyo before current movie, with one of them airing on standard time spot as chosen by a fan poll and other airing in 10th August.
    Last edited by Trainer Yusuf; 8th August 2012 at 07:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwarden View Post
    So....everyone is happy that a "Deux Ex Machina" is being taken down with another Deux Ex Machina....
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Man, more breaks Yusef? Really? When this one is already dragging as it is.....especially since it's a Natsume ep too...

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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!



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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    I'm a bit annoyed, but not entirely at the Iris vs Dawn battle.

    I guess that Trip's battling Cilan in the second round. This ultimately means that Cilan will be knocked out in Round 2 for the third time running...

    This also means that the only major trainer doing any CoTD kicking is Ash.

    So, given the first round, this will probably lead to another OHKO and another CoTD on CoTD battle, which'll be like Antonio vs Dino in Club Battle where they skimmed over it.

    So what are we getting?

    Another unrealistic battle from Iris

    Cilan dropping out early again

    Two ridiculously fast paced battles.

    Wow, I'm actually looking forward to Dawn vs Iris now!
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    BW2 7: パワーバトル!アイリスVSヒカリ!!/Power Battle! Iris VS Hikari!! - #pocketmonsters, your source for news about Pokémon and Pocket Monsters

    VA list translated, from Pocketmonsters.net

    There are no VAs that we don't know of, except Waruvile who will appear in this episode. And yes, all two CotDs(Ranculus and Kuitaran guy, not Akihiro, Chillaccino guy, wait he doesn't even have a VA lol) have their voices listed. And while Shirona is in, Cattleya isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwarden View Post
    So....everyone is happy that a "Deux Ex Machina" is being taken down with another Deux Ex Machina....
    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru
    You know, it would be hilarious if Harley did get a sex change and became Langley.
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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    What an interesting summary!
    Dawn is in perfect sync with Mamoswine; the Twin Tusk Pokémon is launching one attack after another and hitting Dragonite, but then... Iris turns the tables.
    Cilan is using Crustle, battling with the dignity and majesty of a Gym Leader, but then... Trip turns the tables.
    Will all the battles have a character in the underdog position that makes a comeback and wins? Talk about creativity!

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    Default Re: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikuri View Post
    What an interesting summary!
    Dawn is in perfect sync with Mamoswine; the Twin Tusk Pokémon is launching one attack after another and hitting Dragonite, but then... Iris turns the tables.
    Cilan is using Crustle, battling with the dignity and majesty of a Gym Leader, but then... Trip turns the tables.
    Will all the battles have a character in the underdog position that makes a comeback and wins? Talk about creativity!
    Welcome to a shonen anime!

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