Thread: BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

It'll probably be 4 episodes long total like the previous two Don battle tournaments. You're overestimating the length of the battles. Each match is only one on one and many of these can span no more than 3-4 minutes. It was a lot like this in the previous ones.

I imagine Mamoswine Vs. Dragonite will go on for longer due to being an important match, and others like Ash Vs. Trip in the finals. I guarantee something like Iris Vs. Georgia will be over within 3 minutes.

This battle will literally be make or break for me when it comes to this Dragonite. Dawn's Mamoswine has a good deal of bulk and surely won't be going down like Beartic did.

Originally Posted by Gengarzilla

This battle will literally be make or break for me when it comes to this Dragonite. Dawn's Mamoswine has a good deal of bulk and surely won't be going down like Beartic did.

Hey. Are you saying that Beartic is weaker than Mamoswine?

Georgia's a freakin' Dragon Buster, and her specialty is both using Ice-types and to crush/annihilate/destroy Dragon-types. Making her Beartic lose to Dragonite but Dawn's Mamoswine beat Dragonite would just've been bad. It is very likely to happen in my book, but that'd completely be like throwing all of Georgia's ideals and struggles in the trash can, 'cause Dawn's specialty isn't to defeat Dragon-types as far as I'm concerned, and her Mamoswine hasn't really participated in that many battles either, while Beartic is Georgia's ace. If Georgia can't beat Dragonite, then I don't want Dawn to do so either.

So, did Iris catch Dragonite, or is it just a wild one, a la Haunter and Ash?

Originally Posted by Masurao

This issue needs to be solved OUTSIDE the tournament, not during or in the middle of battle.

Exactly.

I'm a fan of the idea of Dawn having a somewhat influence over the issue considering that she went through the same thing with Mamoswine, but I don't want her to play to much of a role in this. I want the issue between Iris and Dragonite to be solved after the tournament, and after her LOSS in the tournament as long as it's not Dawn she's losing against. Although I must say that I, unlike others, am not actually a fan of the typical scenario with forcing the trainer to prove himself/herself by jumping in front of car or something to protect the Pokémon from reciving damage. PUH-lease.

I mean, we saw Ash staying out with Charizard and putting all his heart into trying to warm it after being hit by Ice Beam, and that was really sweet, really. We could see that Ash truly cared for it. Then we saw other cases of the trainer being forced to prove himself throughout the series, like what happened between Gyarados and Misty, Autumn (that was her name, right?) and Miltank, Dawn and Mamoswine and surely lots of others too that I just can't remember, but w/e. The point is that when the issues in the relationship between Iris and Excadrill were solved in ''The Dragon Buster Appears! Iris & Excadrill!!'' Iris didn't have to prove herself by jumping in front of some stupid attack or walk up in front of Excadrill to protect him from some stupid and boring threat blehblehbleh. Iris didn't do that. She was able to gain Excadrill's trust and connect to it by simply talking to it. This might sound boring, but I honestly didn't think it was boring at all, I was just so surprised, and I thought it felt original. Iris didn't have to do something reckless or impulsive to show her concern for Excadrill, she was able to do it simply by talking to it, and was able to truly connect to Excadrill's heart by doing so.

If she wanted to she could just like ask Ash and Tepig to accidently fire away a Flamethrower against Excadrill during a training session or something, and then Iris could've just jumped in front of it and take the hit and then the problem would've been solved. Easy as pie and booooring. :p I just don't like the way that Ash, Dawn etc were forced to prove themselves in such a manner when they should be able to prove themselves simply by truly trying to connect to their Pokémon's heart. I mean, talking is easy, but how easy is it to really go right through and reach the Pokémon's heart when you're talking to it? Iris was able to do that with Excadrill, and I found it to be admirable. And I want the same thing to happen again.

It'd be so great if the two of them gained a whole episode after the tournament dedicated to their relationship, whereere we would've seen Iris constantly trying to truly connect to Dragonite. She could've been admitting her flaws in saying that she didn't feel like she was a worthy trainer for its tremendous power, and Dawn could've thrown in a couple of advices about what Iris would need to think about in order to take full controll of that power and etc. But for God's sake, please don't make a random Bouffalant jump into the episode and ''accidently'' rush towards Dragonite with its Head Charge only to throw Iris in and in front of the damn thing to protect Dragonite from taking the hit, OMG! I'd be extremely disappointed if something similiar to that would indeed happen. :/

She is after all ''The Girl Who Knows the Hearts of Dragons'', and she better prove that shit too!

Originally Posted by X-Strike

So, did Iris catch Dragonite, or is it just a wild one, a la Haunter and Ash?

The episode hasn't aired yet, but judging from the scans and episode titles we've recived it do seem like Iris does indeed catch Dragonite. If it's just temporarily or not we don't know, but we know that she's having problems with controlling its awesome strength. We'll get to see the actual capture in next week's episode. :)

Originally Posted by Chiplet

Hey. Are you saying that Beartic is weaker than Mamoswine?

Georgia's a freakin' Dragon Buster, and her specialty is both using Ice-types and to crush/annihilate/destroy Dragon-types. Making her Beartic lose to Dragonite but Dawn's Mamoswine beat Dragonite would just've been bad. It is very likely to happen in my book, but that'd completely be like throwing all of Georgia's ideals and struggles in the trash can, 'cause Dawn's specialty isn't to defeat Dragon-types as far as I'm concerned, and her Mamoswine hasn't really participated in that many battles either, while Beartic is Georgia's ace. If Georgia can't beat Dragonite, then I don't want Dawn to do so either.

Remember, Dawn was traveling through Hoenn while Ash was busy earning his Unova badges. Who knows how much stronger she and her Pokemon had become. We'll get a better look at Mamoswine's level when Ash battles it with his Pignite, who has type advantage, in BW88.

Dawn's Mamoswine is pretty powerful, no reason it shouldn't be able to take down a Dragonite.

The writers also made the right decision on focusing on Mamoswine for this tournament, its easily the one of Dawn's Pokemon that deserved a powerhouse battle of the series.

At this point the semi-finalist are probably going to be Ash, Trip, Iris/Dawn, and Cilan...with the finals being either Ash vs Trip, or Iris vs Trip.

Originally Posted by Masurao

At this point the semi-finalist are probably going to be Ash, Trip, Iris/Dawn, and Cilan...with the finals being either Ash vs Trip, or Iris vs Trip.

I actually think it's more likely for Dawn and Iris to both reach the semifinals. With only seven notable characters, the first round will most likely only consist of five battles, with the second round having four battles. Since most of these battles will involve filler characters (all but three), it would be justified to barely show a fair few of them and get to the semifinals a bit earlier than usual.

I don't think that the Junior Cup should warrant five episodes, anyway. The writers still need to showcase Drayden, Shizui and the Therian Formes before the league, which should start in early October given the three-month foreshadowing. I'm guessing that the next destination will be Seigaiha City and that Drayden and Shizui will be showcased together, possibly even during the Team Rocket plot. There will probably be a filler episode about Eevee and Riolu, too.

Originally Posted by Silktree

I actually think it's more likely for Dawn and Iris to both reach the semifinals.

I agree, hence why I'm leaning more toward the semi-finalist being Ash vs Trip, and Iris vs Dawn.

Originally Posted by Aura7541

Remember, Dawn was traveling through Hoenn while Ash was busy earning his Unova badges. Who knows how much stronger she and her Pokemon had become. We'll get a better look at Mamoswine's level when Ash battles it with his Pignite, who has type advantage, in BW88.

I still doubt that Dawn is stronger than Georgia. Dawn is a coordinator, and a coordinator's main goal isn't to battle the same way typical trainers like Ash and Georgia do, their main focus is to show their Pokémon off, so puh-lease. I refuse to accept that Dawn would be a stronger trainer than Georgia, simply becaue she is not. So if Dawn do indeed beat Dragonite in a battle I'll just blame it on bad writing. I would've accept it if Georgia's Beartic was able to beat Dragonite too, but since it didn't... yeah. Mamoswine being stronger than Beartic... no way. Even Excadrill, the boss himself, barely managed equal its power.

Originally Posted by Chiplet

Originally Posted by Aura7541

Remember, Dawn was traveling through Hoenn while Ash was busy earning his Unova badges. Who knows how much stronger she and her Pokemon had become. We'll get a better look at Mamoswine's level when Ash battles it with his Pignite, who has type advantage, in BW88.

I still doubt that Dawn is stronger than Georgia. Dawn is a coordinator, and a coordinator's main goal isn't to battle the same way typical trainers like Ash and Georgia do, their main focus is to show their Pokémon off, so puh-lease. I refuse to accept that Dawn would be a stronger trainer than Georgia, simply becaue she is not. So if Dawn do indeed beat Dragonite in a battle I'll just blame it on bad writing. I would've accept it if Georgia's Beartic was able to beat Dragonite too, but since it didn't... yeah. Mamoswine being stronger than Beartic... no way. Even Excadrill, the boss himself, barely managed equal its power.

Really? Just because Hikari is a coordinator, it's not going to work against battle-based trainers? C'mon. We don't know how long Langley's been on her journey, but we have saw Hikari's, and coordinator-styled moves are likely to confuse the opponents by their creativity and thought-of approach to compensate for their lack of physical damage. It's not like the coordinators are these flashy and uneffective trainers who just do it for the lulz. Just ask Dent when he tried to break Hikari's Pochama's defense (who's her favorite Pokémon, but not the strongest).

Plus, a trained Langley's Tunbear failing to beat Iris' just caught Kairyu (who on top of all seems to have problems) with a 4x type advantage is not justifiable, no matter how you slice it (you could argue that Kairyu uses Flamethrower, but Tunbear's Icicle Crash and Ice Beam would have done the job in a series where type advantages are actually a factor), so seeing Manmoo with a 2x type advantage taking down Kairyu (which is unlikely due to the Iris being basically handed a free run in this tournament) is far from unjustifiable. You can't use BS writing as an excuse for more BS writing (ergo, saying that since the first time logic is defied, it should be defied again for consistency purposes. But I don't see why common sense shouldn't prevail for once). But then, with the way BW has been handling type disadvantages, the writers would probably agree with you.

Originally Posted by ivantuga2

Really? Just because Hikari is a coordinator, it's not going to work against battle-based trainers?

That I never said. What I did say though is that in a battle between a cooridnator and a regular trainer, with both having nearly equally as much experience, the trainer would naturally had the advantage in the battle.

C'mon. We don't know how long Langley's been on her journey, but we have saw Hikari's, and coordinator-styled moves are likely to confuse the opponents by their creativity and thought-of approach to compensate for their lack of physical damage.

We don't know how Langley has been out on her journey, that's true. But don't you think it's safe to assume that she's been traveling for quite a while if she actually was able to beat Excadrill, Iris' best Pokémon whom she has had for many years, in a battle where Excadrill clearly gave it his all? Georgia has clearly disaplayed that she isn't a newbie in this matter, she has displayed lots of power and experience in her battles, and it's quite clear at least to me that she's out of the ordinary.

It's not like the coordinators are these flashy and uneffective trainers who just do it for the lulz. Just ask Dent when he tried to break Hikari's Pochama's defense (who's her favorite Pokémon, but not the strongest).

If Cilan would've given his all in that I'm sure that he would definitely have been able to give Dawn a run for her money, if not even beat her. He was merely testing her, which he also clearly stated before the battle took place. He wanted to see what a coordinator was made of, thus the writers made him use those long-range attacks to let Dawn counter it, just to display her coordinator skills. Cilan is without a doubt a powerful trainer, and there's no doubt in my mind that he could've beaten Dawn if he really went all out.

Plus, a trained Langley's Tunbear failing to beat Iris' just caught Kairyu (who on top of all seems to have problems) with a 4x type advantage is not justifiable, no matter how you slice it

I don't recalling saying that it was, that's exactly why I'm upset over Dawn being able to beat Dragonite but not Georgia.

so seeing Manmoo with a 2x type advantage taking down Kairyu (which is unlikely due to the Iris being basically handed a free run in this tournament) is far from unjustifiable.

Wait, what? How did it suddenly turn into a 2x advantage?

Also, I think you misunderstood my point. I never stated that it would've been justified for Dragonite to beat Georgia's Beartic, but what I though did state was that if Beartic - an Ice-type Pokémon who has clearly been displayed as a very powerful Pokémon and also belongs to a trainer that also is specializing in beating Dragon-types specifically - couldn't beat Dragonite, why should Mamoswine - an Ice-type Pokémon that has shown to be rather powerful, but belongs to a coordinator who's main goal isn't to bust Dragon-types - be able to beat Dragonite?

Being a coordinator definitely gives the trainer certain advantages in battles with their unique style of battling, but if they would be able to equal regular trainers in regular battles I don't think that Dawn would've lost that bad as she did in the gym battle against Maylene. She only gained one victory, with a Pokémon that already had lots of battle experience from its previous trainer, thus justifying the victory she had. And if we were to put a regular coordinator in the Pokémon League I doubt that the coordinator actually would've been able to make it past the first round, simpy because they don't train specifically for defeating their opponents in battles.

They're not weak, definitely not, but I certainly don't think that they're stronger, or equal, to a trainer who has the same amount of experience, but specialiseses in battling specifically. So no, I don't see the logic in Dawn beating Dragonite if Georgia wasn't able to do so. Maybe if Georgia was just a regular trainer I would've thought that it was understandable, but Georgia's goal specifically is to defeat Dragon-types. That's not Dawn's goal.

Eh... what? no, just no, Coordinators aren't automatically weaker than regular trainers
Coordinators are trainers too - just like some trainers have their own style of battling (like being more defensive, more offensive, use the surroundings, etc...) Coordinators have their own style of battling in a beautiful way
Actually, fact is that Ash often took ideas from Dawn and used her Contest moves in order to win his Gym Battles

Originally Posted by Chiplet

That I never said. What I did say though is that in a battle between a cooridnator and a regular trainer, with both having nearly equally as much experience, the trainer would naturally had the advantage in the battle.

Probably, but that doesn't mean a trainer would necessarily win. We didn't even see many battles between trainers and coordinators. The one you brought up (where Hikari lost against Sumomo) happened because Hikari was going through a depression stage, and nothing was working out, while the Gym Leader desperately needed a win (even if they were in the same situation, Sumomo needed that win more than Hikari, since two losses in a row would crush her spirit of continuing as a Gym Leader, while it wouldn't help much in Hikari's case, who needed a defeat to learn for the upcoming Mikuri Cup). Plus, Hikari has undoubtedly grown since that battle.

We don't know how Langley has been out on her journey, that's true. But don't you think it's safe to assume that she's been traveling for quite a while if she actually was able to beat Excadrill, Iris' best Pokémon whom she has had for many years, in a battle where Excadrill clearly gave it his all? Georgia has clearly disaplayed that she isn't a newbie in this matter, she has displayed lots of power and experience in her battles, and it's quite clear at least to me that she's out of the ordinary.

Honestly, Doryuzu isn't that impressive when you consider that it went a long time without battling. It uses a brute force approach which can only get you so far. No doubt Langley's Beartic is strong, but can you say with much assurance that Langley would've defeated Hikari had they met? At the very least Hikari wouldn't go down without a fight. I repeat, contest battle's techniques and their unpredictable approach can surprise when the odds seem skewed in favor of the trainer. Langley is strong, but let's not make hasty conclusions.

If Cilan would've given his all in that I'm sure that he would definitely have been able to give Dawn a run for her money, if not even beat her. He was merely testing her, which he also clearly stated before the battle took place. He wanted to see what a coordinator was made of, thus the writers made him use those long-range attacks to let Dawn counter it, just to display her coordinator skills. Cilan is without a doubt a powerful trainer, and there's no doubt in my mind that he could've beaten Dawn if he really went all out.

Oh yeah, the "Didn't give it all" argument. Honestly, that's not something convincing. For all we know Hikari didn't give her all either, as she was basically defending successfully and without stress the whole match, while it was Dent who tried the offensive approach. It didn't work. What matters to me is what we saw in the battle, and Dent's Yanappu couldn't even hit Pochama, despite trying. Now if we DID see Dent giving it all and beating Hikari, then we could say Dent is stronger. Both seem to be strong, but until we see them battling each other seriously, you can't tell who's stronger.

I don't recalling saying that it was, that's exactly why I'm upset over Dawn being able to beat Dragonite but not Georgia.

And I said that

Originally Posted by ivantuga2

You can't use BS writing as an excuse for more BS writing (ergo, saying that since the first time logic is defied, it should be defied again for consistency purposes. But I don't see why common sense shouldn't prevail for once).

What I mean is that just because a stupid move was made (Tunbear losing against Kairyu) doesn't mean that a slightly less idiotic one should happen again (Manmoo losing against Kairyu).

Wait, what? How did it suddenly turn into a 2x advantage?

I was clearly talking about Tunbear having a 4x type advantage. Manmoo has a 2x type advantage.

Also, I think you misunderstood my point. I never stated that it would've been justified for Dragonite to beat Georgia's Beartic, but what I though did state was that if Beartic - an Ice-type Pokémon who has clearly been displayed as a very powerful Pokémon and also belongs to a trainer that also is specializing in beating Dragon-types specifically - couldn't beat Dragonite, why should Mamoswine - an Ice-type Pokémon that has shown to be rather powerful, but belongs to a coordinator who's main goal isn't to bust Dragon-types - be able to beat Dragonite?

Answered above. Same for the rest of your post.