Thread: BW090: The Junior Cup Gets Underway! Kairyu VS Tunbear!!

God dammit when will people learn? She isn't getting the Dragonite effortlessly and it's not being handed to her for free. It doesn't come off as cheap due to the fact that she bonds with it and helps it out.

Ash's Krokorok is going to evolve into a powerful Krookodile JUST before all this happens and I don't see ANYBODY complaining. Sure its trained, but Ash still got a power up. Iris trained to be a Dragon Master with her Axew, the Druddigon and the lonely Deino. Getting a Dragonite in which SHE RISKS HER LIFE TO CALM DOWN AND GET is not cheap at all. It's only lame if she gets a lot of wins with it in the tournament.

I honestly don't know what to say at this point. The whole thing with Iris and Dragonite is either going to turn out decent or horribly wrong. I'm surprised the writers are taking such a big risk but ok. I just wish that everyone could stop freaking out and stop using this thread as a dumping ground for their complaints. Sorry, but I had to get that out.

Honestly, if Axew won't evolve, then they could at least address it in the show. As for Dragonite, I'll save my true judgement for after this episode.

Originally Posted by Ampharos King

The only problem that Ash's Gible ever had with battling was mastering its Draco Meteor attack, and it took the pokemon well over twenty episodes after it was caught to actually perfect the move.

Also keep in mind that some of Ash's pokemon, such as Corphish or Buizel, that had been with him for over a hundred episodes never evolved. Whether one or more of Ash's pokemon evolve in a series is determined at the writing staff's discretion, and does not necessarily reflect the notion that Dragon-type pokemon are harder to master than pokemon with other typings.

Obviously, but the anime has fairly consistently shown the relative strength and rareness of fully evolved Dragon types. There have been very few dragons shown through the anime, but I think it's fair to suggest that Dragon Pokemon carry over the game idea of evolving late after a lot of effort. The Bagon episode is probably the best indicator in the anime of the degree of difficulty in evolving a dragon type.

The writers could have easily given Iris a Dratini or some other non-evolved pokemon that she had to spend dozens of episodes to train and raise for evolution, but instead they went with the quicker route and decided to have her catch a fully evolved pokemon instead. It is clear that Iris, with her current team of pokemon, was going to be at a disadvantage during the Junior Cup, so the writers decided to "level out" the playing field by giving her a third-stage pokemon as well. Cilan has a powerhouse, Ash has nearly half a dozen powerhouses, and now Iris has a powerhouse.

If this was any single other type of Pokemon, it wouldn't be as bad, because her storyline wouldn't depend on it so much. Of course there's little reason for her not to be at a disadvantage in the Junior Cup, there's no reason for her to win. Ash and the other main trainers on Gym quests have a reason to win a generalist competition - it's why Dawn and May didn't win in battle tournaments and why Misty's major win came in a Water specific tournament. Sure, competing gains her experience, which is why they can all enter these sorts of competitions, but they don't have to be in a position to win them to gain the benefit out of competing.

When Iris was handed Axew, she was told that training it and connecting hearts with it would grow her as a person. That Axew's development and growth is tied directly to her own and raising Axew to Haxorus is equivalent to growing up as a trainer. Placing your hand on a Dragonite and having it glow doesn't do that, and it makes her able to be on such a high level in her overall goal that it makes Axew seem like a comparatively small goal.

Iris' whole storyline hinges on connecting with Axew to grow as a trainer. She has to earn powerful dragons, in the same way Ash has to earn badges. BW has certainly had some problems with Ash's Gym Battles, but being given a Dragonite is to a Dragon Master what being given 8 badges for a region would be to a Pokemon Master. It is in and of itself completion of a goal that should symbolise hard work.

There's no need for Iris and Cilan to be generally strong. Crustle is in many ways as bad as Dragonite will be, it allows him to win in battles without having made further progress with Pansage and without having to learn and find the right balance of Pokemon to succeed. Making the most of 'weak' Pokemon does far more for development than having strong ones and having a strong Pokemon isn't the best way to make progress.

And the difference between Axew learning a new attack while it is in the losing end of a battle and another character's pokemon learning a new attack immediately after evolving or after experiencing an emotional upheaval is?

That the moves Axew learns are so abnormally powerful? If Axew suddenly learned Dragon Claw while scratching Garchomp, I'd have thought nothing of it, but instead Axew's new moves have been the two most powerful ones of its line, and while sure there's no translation of the levels to the anime, there should still be some strength curve to how Pokemon develop. Axew isn't that.

Originally Posted by Human

God dammit when will people learn? She isn't getting the Dragonite effortlessly and it's not being handed to her for free. It doesn't come off as cheap due to the fact that she bonds with it and helps it out.

Ash's Krokorok is going to evolve into a powerful Krookodile JUST before all this happens and I don't see ANYBODY complaining. Sure its trained, but Ash still got a power up. Iris trained to be a Dragon Master with her Axew, the Druddigon and the lonely Deino. Getting a Dragonite in which SHE RISKS HER LIFE TO CALM DOWN AND GET is not cheap at all. It's only lame if she gets a lot of wins with it in the tournament.

But see that's just it, the possibilities that this could bring can be anything but good. Never in the history of the show has a main character(not even Ash himself) be given such a boost in their journey to where they are pretty much overpowered and especially not being worthy of it.

The purpose of this thread is to speculate about the episode. With Iris getting this Dragonite, a psuedo-legendary that is fully evolved and a pokemon she really has no business getting especially with Axew and poor Emolga in need of training, we are allowed to speculate that THIS episode, and apparently those that will come after it, will be very shitty.

I actually like Iris and I can see clear as day that this is major bull shit.

Originally Posted by Bluelatios

I just wish that everyone could stop freaking out and stop using this thread as a dumping ground for their complaints. Sorry, but I had to get that out.

Freaking out? I'm actually surprised and glad at how calm everyone seems to take this. The entire point of these threads is to express one's feelings towards something and state their reasons as to why. If someone expresses disagreement, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're freaking out. Even so, people should vent freely without being ordered not to. I just don't agree with the reasons stated as to why it's a problem for Iris to work hard, risk her life and bond with a strong Pokemon so she could then capture it before a tournament when it makes total sense to do that when the current team needs a deserved boost.

Originally Posted by Human

Ash's Krokorok is going to evolve into a powerful Krookodile JUST before all this happens and I don't see ANYBODY complaining.

How in the hell is that the same? Ash actually TRAINED Krokorok to get to that level, so it's deserved. Iris, on the other hand, caught this thing a single episode prior to these events. The fact that the writers have the audacity to troll like this is astounding to me.

Iris trained to be a Dragon Master with her Axew, the Druddigon and the lonely Deino. Getting a Dragonite in which SHE RISKS HER LIFE TO CALM DOWN AND GET is not cheap at all. It's only lame if she gets a lot of wins with it in the tournament.

It is cheap because she hasn't proven herself worthy of such a powerful Pokemon throughout this entire series. If the writers knew how to write even remotely decently, they would have Iris train Axew regularly so IT could've been fully evolved by this tournament, or at least be strong enough to be somewhat of a threat. They could've even let her catch that Deino from a long time ago and that would have been much better than what the writers are doing now. Just fail, tbh. Most of us here could write better than this. This is really not the proper way to develop a character at all.

Iris is being handled this way for two reasons:

She is the Champion in BW2
The writers don't want Iris or Cilan to be neglected like Misty/Brock were.

I guess without a second quest like Contests the writers don't know how to show Iris' growth.

She trained her skills to be a Dragon Master, therefore deserves to be able to be friends with it. What she doesn't deserve is to win with it. Just because she knows how to make friends with one doesn't mean that she can control it and win with it all the time. That would be the shit since she hasn't been able to show such capabilities. I guess that's something we can agree on. And yeah, Caseydia's right, it's just speculation.

The funny thing is, the writers probably expect the audience/viewers to root for Iris in this episode (much like they probably did in her battles against Cabernet, and Masaomi). Though, with the way they just give Iris perks...it's quite counterproductive.

Originally Posted by Human

She trained her skills to be a Dragon Master, therefore deserves to be able to be friends with it. What she doesn't deserve is to win with it. Just because she knows how to make friends with one doesn't mean that she can control it and win with it all the time. That would be the shit since she hasn't been able to show such capabilities. I guess that's something we can agree on. And yeah, Caseydia's right, it's just speculation.

I agree that she can bond with Dragonite. Many people have bonded with countless Pokemon in the series. But I don't agree with her using it in a tournament against her rival without any training. This is the time that Axew should be shining. Axew should be her main focus and the one to be getting battles. If they wanted to give Iris a power up they could have given her another dragon type like Druddigon or a Zweilous. But to give her one of the Pokemon revered in the anime as being beastly powerful it seems like a bit much.

I really hope she can't control it or Georgia gains the upper hand and beats it. But considering how things have been handled in the past what will most likely happen is that Beartic will lose to Dragonite. And when we think of the fact that Iris is champion in the BW2 games the show may want to make Iris seem extremely powerful even though up until this point she hasn't shown that she is truly a Dragon Master. She is still learning, and her team needs to reflect that. Having a Dragonite does NOT reflect that unless it is uncontrollable by her or she loses spectacularly.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

She is the Champion in BW2

Even with that, it doesn't justify them giving her a fully evolved freebie pseudo legendary Pokemon right before a tournament to make her look good. She wouldn't have trained it at all. If the writers have any semblance of proper storytelling, they'd have Iris lose here..to show her that the easy way out is never the way to go. Unfortunately, the writers lost their competence somewhere between DP, and BW.

I might not be happy with Ash's development this saga, but I'm sure glad they're not pulling this shit with him. He's at least a somewhat decently written character overall.

Originally Posted by Masurao

The funny thing is, the writers probably expect the audience/viewers to root for Iris in this episode (much like they probably did in her battles against Cabernet, and Masaomi). Though, with the way they just give Iris perks...it's quite counterproductive.

I seriously doubt that the Japanese kids are being so critiquing, and it's mainly them the writers are focusing their writing towards. Having a big and very powerful Pokémon like Dragonite joining the main cast will probably be considered to be amazing in their opinion, and thus they'll root for Iris, naturally.

I really wish I was in their shoes right now... If I was, I really wouldn't have been bothered by this at all. I mean, Iris could've received Hydreigon, Dragonite, Salamence and Flygon all in one episode and still would've been happy.

Also, 9 pages, and a day hasn't even passed? These Iris threads tend to gain lots of posts, don't they?

The only thing that made me happy was seeing that Georgia will be back and presumably Burgundy as well, meaning they will most likely meet Dawn and it will be interesting to see how they bounce off of each other.

But the fact that that's the most exciting part of this tournament for me and it hasn't even started yet is a damn shame. BW's writing is so....whack, I'm ready to skip the League and moving on to Generation 6.

If Ash or Bianca would lose this tournament for example, while Iris plows her way through and wins the whole shebang with a Dragonite she recently caught...it just be a massive middle finger to them. It be like "Haha screw all your training, and hard work."

I really hope they don't go this route. I'm not expecting Ash to win honestly since he already had his "battle" with Adler. So I'm just going to rule him out right now. I'm really hoping Bianca does well, or even wins. I pray Langley defeats Iris.