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  1. #31
    Registered User SlimeStack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Yes, BW was a test for XY. But DP was a test for BW, and so forth.

    They probably wanted to change up DP's slow pacing, hence BW Season 1's faster pace. Maybe they were questioning Team Rocket's relevance, enter black uniforms. Ash, Dawn and Brock had quite a dull relationship with each other, enter Ash, Iris and Cilan's more lively chemistry.

    I'm not so sure I can trust the writers to correctly identify the good ideas BW had hidden behind the poor execution though. They're probably more likely to go in the opposite direction and try and make a not-BW series when ideally the best of all series should be combined into something amazing.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    No, I get the impression the writers tried to reinvent it for BW. Changing TR's persona, bringing in a new male and female. TR changing and Brock leaving are all huge things. The writers probably wanted us to think that BW was new and improved. Testing for X and Y, maybe what happens now can be seen as that but back when it started they were still trying to sell us BW.

  3. #33
    Registered User Gryphon Turboclaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Did the writers even know whether XY was coming, though?

    Part of the problem was that the writers were going for a nostalgic feel without any thought as to whether that would actually make sense for their characters. Ash's regression into a full-blown Empathy Freak Idiot Hero(as opposed to the Good is Not Dumb he tended towards by the end of BF), which kicked off during DP, was completed in BW, with dramatic consequences by the time the League rolled around. Instead of the likes of May and Dawn---who received at least *some* character development---we got "kodome ne/Such a kid!" Iris, who got less than even Misty did(and that's bearing in mind that Misty's development was all but aborted in mid-Johto when the writers simply gave up and effectively made her bipolar). Brock's replacement---Cilan---was arguably the only one they got right, since his humor is generally balanced out by---and even utilizes---his competence and wit.

    Another was that the writers were barely even *trying* to incorporate the BW games' overarching plot---Team Plasma and Ghetsis's machinations, to be specific---into the show. Instead of the games' Villains With Good---or in this case, Grey---Publicity, they tried to turn Plasma into a clone of the previous three villain teams, which bit them *hard* when the tsunami and its side effects came rolling in(as they seemed to want the Pokemon equivalent of Gundam SEED's attack on Orb instead of the spy-vs-spy action that TRio vs the Plasma agent really required). Cue them having to dump the whole thing until BW2 gave them an excuse to rush through what should have been multi-seasonal arcs(N's interaction with the group and his attendant character development, and the TP/TR feud) in a relative handful of episodes.

    tldr: Long story short, they tried to make it *look* new while keeping it aimed in the same overall direction, and it blew up in their---and our---faces.
    Avid Advance/Ability/Fire/Imite/Morpheusshipper, because Ash deserves to eventually be with someone who will treat him as an equal, not as a little brother or lesser rival.

    Also supports Coastline(Misty actually *respects* Dorian enough to be able to carry out a healthy romantic relationship with him), Luck(no way in hell Lucy's forgotten about Brock), and Twinleafshipping(as much as I like Kenny as a person, Barry should have gotten his role---and the crush on Dawn---too).

  4. #34
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphon Turboclaw View Post
    Instead of the likes of May and Dawn---who received at least *some* character development---we got "kodome ne/Such a kid!" Iris, who got less than even Misty did(and that's bearing in mind that Misty's development was all but aborted in mid-Johto when the writers simply gave up and effectively made her bipolar). Brock's replacement---Cilan---was arguably the only one they got right, since his humor is generally balanced out by---and even utilizes---his competence and wit.
    I have to disagree about Misty though, because way i see it good chunk of her growth happened in second half of Johto and afterwards. Like doing more with her water master career through Whirl islands, new pokemon captures and several trainers she battled. Dealing with her inferiority complex imposed by her sisters overcoming it and helping others who had same issues like Sakura or focusing on it with iothers like Dorian. Became more tolerant and mature appreciating friendship with Ash and Brock viewing them as family(had closer bond than it was case in Kanto) or pokemon which got on her nerves like Psyduck. Along with overcoming Gyarados fear and learning how to cope with responsibility in chronicles and AG appearances earning sister respect and restoring gym situation developing in blend of spunky and playful yet more mature and independent character.

    Development which while insufficient leaving room for more i find was still executed in more believable manner than its case with Iris. Since she struggled, had emotional crisis and worked hard for things she got.

    With all other points i agree in your post making it seem like writers just stopped caring with storyline not moving forward. Show basically fallen in overused, predictable rut with almost no continuity, very little connection to past and scarce development keeping development of its characters and main protagonist(Ash) static at this point falling down in predictable, repetitious slump composed of rehashes and resets. Rather than have them build up on someone story taking him on bigger, better things and create cohesive, stable storyline. Which is imo anything but most optimal way to keep someone interested and excited for certain show.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 7th June 2013 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    BW is a series best described as "jack of all trades, and master of none."

    It tried to do so many things, yet it couldn't pull them off FOR that very reason.

    No, I don't think any of the series test things. OS is very similar to BW in terms of mindset, while AG is very similar to DP in terms of mindset.

    As far as the English dub goes, OS is very similar to AG in terms of voices, while DP is very similar to BW in terms of voices (and BF too, but I ignore that arc for the most part).

    So you can see each series has its own correlation to one another.

    I'm one of the few who liked B/W for the most part though (except that league...NO). I suppose I COULD say it was testing to see what things may work for XY's anime, though.

    Hint: No Team Rocket If You Can't Do Them Justice, Writers

    ;)
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 20th June 2013 at 07:43 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post
    In BW's case, the Seismic Disaster pretty much derailed their plans for the saga.
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    if it weren't for the earthquake, BW's Plasma plot would likely have gone more smoothly, if nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphon Turboclaw View Post
    Another was that the writers were barely even *trying* to incorporate the BW games' overarching plot---Team Plasma and Ghetsis's machinations, to be specific---into the show. Instead of the games' Villains With Good---or in this case, Grey---Publicity, they tried to turn Plasma into a clone of the previous three villain teams, which bit them *hard* when the tsunami and its side effects came rolling in(as they seemed to want the Pokemon equivalent of Gundam SEED's attack on Orb instead of the spy-vs-spy action that TRio vs the Plasma agent really required). Cue them having to dump the whole thing until BW2 gave them an excuse to rush through what should have been multi-seasonal arcs(N's interaction with the group and his attendant character development, and the TP/TR feud) in a relative handful of episodes.
    *Deep breath*

    For the last time, THE TWO-PARTER GETTING PULLED HAD NO EFFECT ON THE REST OF THE SHOW.

    Episodes following it were written and produced WAY in advance before the earthquake and tsunami happened. Team Plasma was NEVER going to be the overarching villains like Aqua/Magma and Galactic were with Team Rocket feuding with them, Team Rocket was ALWAYS the intended main villains for the badge quest with the evil team leader (Giovanni) even coming in for a big finish before the League.

    People need to do their goddamn research before spreading this false claim around. The writers didn't dump a thing, Team Plasma wasn't used until after the League because they just didn't want to use them until then. Stop using the 3/11 disaster as a scapegoat.

  7. #37
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObjectionMan View Post
    *Deep breath*

    For the last time, THE TWO-PARTER GETTING PULLED HAD NO EFFECT ON THE REST OF THE SHOW.

    Episodes following it were written and produced WAY in advance before the earthquake and tsunami happened. Team Plasma was NEVER going to be the overarching villains like Aqua/Magma and Galactic were with Team Rocket feuding with them, Team Rocket was ALWAYS the intended main villains for the badge quest with the evil team leader (Giovanni) even coming in for a big finish before the League.

    People need to do their goddamn research before spreading this false claim around. The writers didn't dump a thing, Team Plasma wasn't used until after the League because they just didn't want to use them until then. Stop using the 3/11 disaster as a scapegoat.
    While I agree with you that the two-parter getting pulled didn't have an effect on the rest of the show, I think that you could express that opinion in a bit calmer. Besides that, I don't want this thread to be derailed about talking about either side of the argument, so let's just drop it and stick to the topic at hand.
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Well, you could say that each season is testing ground for the next. Can we make this show and how do we do that? (Kanto). Can we get away with putting barely any effort in? (Jouto) Can Satoshi share the show's spotlight and still shine for himself? (Houen) Can we have strong rivals who also take a large share of the spotlight? (DP) What the question is in Best Wishes I don't know but I think that all these questions have effected the next series from them one way or the other.

    In terms of being a big filler experiment though, I kind of doubt it.
    Hey, I quite liked the supposed filler hell of Johto. Though I definitely understand why everyone here didn't like it, I disagree with all of you regarding that they put barely any effort in-- sure it was the same repetitive set-up, but some of the more comedic episodes were quite entertaining. Some of my favorite episodes come from that saga. :P
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 13th July 2013 at 01:36 PM.
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  9. #39
    Registered User Pikacuh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    I say the writers did a great job with Johto bringing the Original cast back together again. The fillers in Johto was great for the most part but atleast Ash, misty and Brock were back to having focus on together as whole.

    AG: Started out okay with May being added aswell as the Pokemon contests, but this series seem to be the point were the show was starting to decline, i don't want to get started on the Team Magma/Team Aqua arc since we know how terrible it turn out.

    DP: was maybe the most worst series they ever made due to all of it's fillers and boring annoying characters and rivals, the Pokemon Contests idea was getting old real fast even the Sinnoh League was overrush, which was due to poor writting.

    BW: This series was a great fresh reboot of the entire series. The Battle Clubs were a great idea to get away from those terrible childless Pokemon Contests which were finally gone from the show, the gym battles were pure epic and the Unova League was great as well as the N arc, even the Decolora flller arc series is turning out to be great.

    I do believe the BW series is a test for the XY anime series and that's a good thing, since the BW anime series made some great improvements over the DP series.
    Last edited by Pikacuh; 14th July 2013 at 06:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Personally, I love the art and animation in Best Wishes! It's of a consistently good quality (except for the Decolora Adventures arc), unlike DP's very obvious ups and downs, the trio's friendship feels more genuine and I love how interconnected they are and the humour's great! Dent/Cilan's character is very entertaining and Iris is exciting and endearing, and her tomboyish nature is a nice change after two girly Coordinators in a row.

    I love the rivals, I love that the writers are finally over that strange fear they had throughout the series of making a side-plot last longer than two, maybe three episodes if we're lucky. They also made the Rocket trio a more credible threat, which is also something a lot of people bad been wishing they would do for a long time! I love all the new things they tried, honestly.

    Episode N was pretty much one of the best arcs to come from the anime!

    Honestly, the only thing I disliked about the Best Wishes! series is the league (sad, just sad), which seems to have been rushed through to get to the superior Episode N arc, and the dry spell/dip in quality of episodes around the cancelled Rocket vs Plasma episodes, but the show recovered soon after that and I honestly can't blame them about it otherwise... the earthquake wasn't their fault.

    Oh, I also find the Decolora Adventures arc very hit-or-miss, but I don't hate it, because Episode N was geared more towards older fans, so I feel like the cutesy, lighthearted, funny tone of this filler arc is more geared to the much younger viewers (that band of Pokemon pirates episode? Felt perfectly at home in a kodomo/children's anime). I view them the way most people probably view Pikachu shorts, tone-wise. Besides, Da! has its moments where it's genuinely funny or moving too (the Oubem and Satoshi/Iris fight episodes).
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  11. #41
    Registered User Darth Darkrai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    I personally think it was testing for X AND Y I think this might go a different Direction because I AM SICK AND TIRED OF EVERYONE SAYING BLACK AND WHITE (BEST WISHES I PREFER SAYING BLACK AND WHITE BETTER TO ME) BEING THE WORST SAGA EVER COULD WE PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY OK.

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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocadial View Post
    I personally think it was testing for X AND Y I think this might go a different Direction because I AM SICK AND TIRED OF EVERYONE SAYING BLACK AND WHITE (BEST WISHES I PREFER SAYING BLACK AND WHITE BETTER TO ME) BEING THE WORST SAGA EVER COULD WE PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY OK.
    Why is it that Diamond and Pearl is near perfection, and every other saga of the anime, be it Original Series, Advanced Generation, or Best Wishes!, is so much more flawed to people? I mean, battles and techniques aren't everything, and that's certainly not the only reason why I watch the show. Every series has its pros and cons: ultimately, it's just a matter of preference as well as opinion. Nothing more, but nothing less.

    I would have much more respect for fans of the Diamond and Pearl Series if they didn't insist the series was excellent, and all other series pale in comparison, but we practically MUST agree with them. No, they insist Best Wishes! is a pile of garbage without looking at the flaws of the OS, AG, and DP series, respectively. There are some good things BW brought to the table, despite many things I dislike as well.

  13. #43
    Registered User Darth Darkrai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    I actually thought that the DP SAGA was the Best I think and had good Episodes with Bad Fillers.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocadial View Post
    I actually thought that the DP SAGA was the Best I think and had good Episodes with Bad Fillers.
    See, you say DP is the best saga because you believe that, but you don't act like all the others were so much worse by comparison. You say it respectfully and because you actually believe it is.

    My favorite is the OS because I just like the classics more and like the simpler feel of the series before it started getting so complicated. XD.

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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Now that I think of it yeah it the others were Meh but the OS HAD probably the Best Comedy and Funny Moments so yeah it is great as well. AG Was Ok but was not a Fan of some of it's Characters especially with the Return of Brock and he was so Bland to me after that and was necessary for the other Regions I think.

    Also on another Note HAPPY 500TH POST I FEEL GREAT ABOUT IT AGAIN AND IT WILL BE THE LAST TIME I WILL DO THIS BEFORE GOING TO Africa.

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