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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Battle Clubs were obviously meant to take the place of Contests. The writers knew going back to two sidekick characters would mean a lot of filler, so they tried to give them a role int hat.

    Also characters like Georgia and Burundly resembled coordinators and I could have easily seen them being in contests had they come a saga earlier.

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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    This question assumes that they knew all along that they were going to have to transition to the 3DS and fast. I kinda question how much they anticipated what was going to happen here. It is plain they knew this gen was going to be short, but the later eps also indicate they were caught with their pants down and no longer knew what to do. They were plainly trying out several things, but I don't think it was in anticipation of the next gen. I don't know how most of those are going to be interpreted, but it seems the conclusion has already arrived for TR. They want TR as they were before BW happened. If any of the "experiments" failed, it was that one. I find it to be a pity that people felt that way, but the thing I didn't like about BW TR was that they didn't seem to have any focus. Just a random two parter after the last. The others, it wouldn't matter too much if they failed or not since I don't think they think those aspects matter. (ash's development, the rotation/pokemon development, the main rival/other rivalries, the premise of the companions, and the overall tone of the show) The reason those such as myself that were dissatisfied by this experience have been waiting this long because we know a new gen means new standards. Even though I know every saga also has it's own identity, it is plain that the mentality didn't really change between Hoenn and BF, and the same happened between the Unova League, Episode N, and DA. As long as it's still BW, they will continue with what they're doing. XY means a new slate and we can start anew. It still doesn't look good because even with a change of saga, they didn't change the nature of the show to me. This is what I hope for in XY, but I fear we are not going to get it since the experiences from BW are inconclusive.
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    The only reason DP kept Contests and used a female co-star and had a mature Ash is because AG proved the concept worked right before.
    Not the only reason, game feature promotion ranks quite high as a reason to do anything.

    Which makes the fact BW heavily relied on something that wasn't in the games - the battle clubs - to push along the storyline outside the Gyms very odd to me. Indeed BW probably had the least relevance to the game storyline and key features than the anime has had in a while. Though if they were trying to test if the anime could take a path away from the game storylines you'd assume they'd try and actually have a decent storyline for the anime to follow, not just have nearly nothing.

    Even the latter phases of BW show totally polar ways of going about it - the terrible execution of the World Tournaments compared to the very good Episode N plot which tied reasonably into the B2W2 game plot; and then on to an anime only set of islands to finish things off. If they are using BW to try things they are certainly getting their money's worth on different paths to take.
    That is just what I mean. They do a lot of different things. Why should they do that if not to try out new stuff.
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Nope!

    The producers & creative staff are ALWAYS mixing & matching ideas from series to series. And please note that various events keep happening to make them alter course whether they like it or not. In BW's case, the Seismic Disaster pretty much derailed their plans for the saga. Black2/White2 and Gen 5's shortness further complicated things.

    I don't see BW as them testing things. They do that with EVERY region/saga. Things just really didn't turn out like they planned this time

    Here's hoping they do better in Kalos!
    Last edited by SammyW27; 19th July 2013 at 08:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Its possible like AG was a testing ground for DP.

    The only reason DP kept Contests and used a female co-star and had a mature Ash is because AG proved the concept worked right before.
    Contests worked in AG, but I don't think that was the only reason they were kept in DP either. The fact that they were still in the fourth generation games was much more of a factor as to why they were still present. If D/P/Pl didn't include Contests, then DP wouldn't have had Contests. It's doubtful that they would have continued Contests in DP just because of their success in AG since Contests had even more significance in DP and yet were dropped for BW.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty
    Battle Clubs were obviously meant to take the place of Contests. The writers knew going back to two sidekick characters would mean a lot of filler, so they tried to give them a role int hat.

    Also characters like Georgia and Burundly resembled coordinators and I could have easily seen them being in contests had they come a saga earlier.
    They probably did want to use the Battle Clubs as a means of getting other characters besides Ash battling more often, but it was terribly executed. If they continue on with mini-tournament arcs in the next series, I seriously hope that they won't be as rushed and have such repetitive structure as the Club Battles in BW. Though, I'd prefer it if they just went back to side-quest for the female character, either Contests or something new, but they could do both. I could see Burgundy as a Coordinator, although I'm not sure about Georgia.
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Sammy has a good point here- if it weren't for the earthquake, BW's Plasma plot would likely have gone more smoothly, if nothing else. Gamefreak deciding 3-4 months before launch to actually continue the game's plot probably didn't help, and I suspect it's why Plasma was already out of the picture after the two-parter to begin with, to give the anime writers time to account for B2W2's plot. So assuming XY doesn't have any huge derailing events like these, it's almost guaranteed to go better.
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    They're not paying attention to what a bunch of teen+ people are saying about their show on an online forum, so they are definitely not catering to said fans. Young kids probably have far fewer bad things to say about BW than we do, so it's not really a concern of the writing staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post
    Nope!

    The producers & creative staff are ALWAYS mixing & matching ideas from series to series. And please note that various events keep happening to make them alter course whether they like it or not. In BW's case, the Seismic Disaster pretty much derailed their plans for the saga. Black2/White2 and Gen 5's shortness further complicated things.

    I don't see BW as them testing things. They do that with EVERY region/saga. Things just really didn't turn out like they planned this time.

    Here's hoping they do better in Kalos!
    Agreed; gen 5 is a rushed mess in general, and the seismic disaster made it worst for the producers on the show. In fact, it's a result of bad luck if you asked me.

    Also, they experimented with plot and story, EVERY SINGLE GENERATIONS. They did not planned out the entire saga, but goes with what will bring in the ratings or not; and they'll keep on doing that until Game Freak put the franchise to rest. You guys keep forgetting that the animated series is now a marketing ploy to get the viewers to buy more games.
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    As a comic book writer once told me, "All things present and past are merely testing grounds for the future"... so technically if you follow that logic it was a testing ground.

    Granted I liked several of the changes but disliked others...

    I liked the return of rotation... though I think they focused too much on the starters and used the others as battle fodder.
    I liked the more serious Team Rocket... but I think they should've gone more to a middle ground.
    I liked Cilan somewhat... but I still prefer Brock and I will always miss Misty, though Dawn was good.
    I liked the rivals... though I think there were too many and they could've done with less.
    I liked the references to previous series... but where is Primeape... screw Butterfree, bring back the monkey!
    I liked most of the storylines conceptually... especially the one with Meowth temporarily joining Ash's group, though I don't think they executed them well.

    there are other things, but Unova wasn't bad... it was just hit and miss...
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    BW the testing ground for X&Y? Ok correct if i'm wrong but since when has shopro (or whoever is in charge of the anime ever paid attention to viewer feedback why would they be testing for X and Y when they don't even know what their own viewers in Japan want in the show?
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Macromaster View Post
    BW the testing ground for X&Y? Ok correct if i'm wrong but since when has shopro (or whoever is in charge of the anime ever paid attention to viewer feedback why would they be testing for X and Y when they don't even know what their own viewers in Japan want in the show?
    How do you know they're not paying attention to viewer feedback, exactly?
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  12. #27
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Each saga is an experiment.

    Johto tried to reunite the original trio, it didn't work, so they restarted fresh with AG with a new cast.

    The AG formula mostly worked, which is why DP was so similar and kept many of the same concepts. Dawn's character was designed to be similar to May's and the Contests continued with mature Ash.

    DP was too long and main character chemistry was dull, so BW happened with the BW trio.

    Now we'll see changes for the next one,

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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Not really. Such things have been happening pretty much since day one with writers applying "trial of experiments and errors" to determine what they wanted for anime to become and what is working formula in order to hook people onto show.

    This can be noticed since early days when filling show with more romance in OS and to lesser extent in AG, with various cast changes trying out group of three or quarter like it happened in AG. By keeping Ash older team for Johto trying to gradually phase them out for new ones, in performing concept of pokemon trade between characters as noticed with Aipom and Buizel in DP etc. As such various companions Ash traveled thrpugh were experiments themselves too. Whether its Misty which was first girl companion with who writers introduced concept of mono trainer, Tracey who was introduced only for racial issues, May which was introduced to see if game protagonists are suitable for contests promotion, Iris which is introduced to see how will things work out with pokemon champion from games etc. if OS formula can work again(considering how immensely popular original cast was) and try to do something different with female companions not turning everyone in coordinators.

    Sometimes their experiments and decisions showed to be beneficial, while sometime not so much damaging show integrity but there is no denying how this has been happening since day one.
    As for more notable changes which influence directly structure of storytelling like contests, games also play very influencing role in everything with this show serving primarily as marketing tool, intermediate through which new products can be better placed on market and have wider group be better familiar with it.

    So its not so much surprising to me why such trend continued on Unova series as well, through new concepts like Don George battle Clubs, pokemon rotation Ash applied by shuffling through his team, have every member of main cast get his own rival, Team Rocket being given more importance in sense of becoming competent and organized performing tasks of enforceability and so on.

    Inherently there was nothing wrong with some of BW new ideas. Personally i liked premise behind Battle Clubs seeming like intriguing concept and breath of fresh air from contests in which we could see all main characters and rivals interact, asses their skills and learn something new. Or Ash trying out to rotate his pokemon team having in theory right pokemon for every situation having wider pool of options to choose from and make more than select few pokemon become potential powerhouses. Like other crafty trainers before did as evidenced through Gary, Paul and various other trainer examples.

    Problem was that writers poorly executed them on screen with lack of experience but amount of available time as well to display such things in believable, endearing manner causing that perfectly well ideas go down the drain.

    p.s. Also writers don't pay attention to viewer feedback, at least not outside of Japan. Ratings may serve to them as indication of something being well accepted or not among watchers, but there doesn't exist such thing as established direct connection between viewer and writers where people thoughts and desires would be taken in consideration.

    Otherwise judging by demand and consistent talk about specific things such as Ash winning league, Misty coming back, chronicles being made again etc they wouldn't fall on deaf ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Each saga is an experiment.

    Johto tried to reunite the original trio, it didn't work, so they restarted fresh with AG with a new cast.
    There was no some intrinsic flaw within characters for way Johto was written, but solely writers wrong calls and inexperience in writing.
    Johto didn't failed because original trio was reunited. In fact they were successful and widely accepted cast among majority of fandom at that time having required potential and predispositions to work together and still could in many people eyes.

    Reason behind drop of popularity was caused by sloppy writing, writers lack of vision to move things forward (especially after dropping plots like GS ball which meant things forward)and various disputes among staff in what way to handle anime as mr. Shudo in blogs specifically mentioned.

    At that time series also had unfortunate bane of pokemon not being anymore hit in franchise like it used to be with hype(fad( and people interest starting to wane.

    Needless to say games and advertizing have big influence on way every saga is going to be constructed with arrival of contests causing change in cast for Hoenn, Sinnoh and BW.
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Each saga is an experiment.

    Johto tried to reunite the original trio, it didn't work, so they restarted fresh with AG with a new cast.

    The AG formula mostly worked, which is why DP was so similar and kept many of the same concepts. Dawn's character was designed to be similar to May's and the Contests continued with mature Ash.

    DP was too long and main character chemistry was dull, so BW happened with the BW trio.

    Now we'll see changes for the next one,
    You might as well add the Kanto/IS series in your list as well because they were horrible experiements as well. Neither was perfect. And I rather rewatch all of DP with it's too long and dull chemistry than the horror of BW anyday.
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    Default Re: Was BW for testing things for XY anime?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Each saga is an experiment.

    Johto tried to reunite the original trio, it didn't work, so they restarted fresh with AG with a new cast.

    The AG formula mostly worked, which is why DP was so similar and kept many of the same concepts. Dawn's character was designed to be similar to May's and the Contests continued with mature Ash.

    DP was too long and main character chemistry was dull, so BW happened with the BW trio.

    Now we'll see changes for the next one,
    Again, the reason why they kept Contests and made Dawn another coordinator wasn't became of AG working out. It was because of how D/P/Pl still had Contests. If they weren't in the games, they wouldn't have included them at all. I actually liked the DP chemistry and so do other people. That's just your opinion on the chemistry, rather than a fact. Every series, including the original series, tries out new ideas, so BW isn't different in that regard.

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