Thread: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

Although, being so excited at the thought of Lucario defeating Pikachu probably makes me a bit bias since I'd greatly prefer seeing that than Ash losing to Eeveeultions, if only because Lucario is much more awesome to me.

Not only he's awesome, but because everyone inb4 haters can swallow it. If I were Ash, I wouldn't leave my house for a couple weeks if a team of Eeveelutions managed to wipe my team.

The titles often lie. And I desperately hope this is a misleading title.

But what's wrong with Ash losing to Eeveelutions? They're not scary-looking, but the skill of the trainer that should shine through, too. Pikachu did get slapped around by a Magikarp once.

Originally Posted by Karamazov

The titles often lie. And I desperately hope this is a misleading title.

But what's wrong with Ash losing to Eeveelutions? They're not scary-looking, but the skill of the trainer that should shine through, too. Pikachu did get slapped around by a Magikarp once.

That wasn't a team of Magikarps. And the idea of losing to Eeveelutions after beating a powerhouse team doesn't fit me well. ._.

Originally Posted by Karamazov

The titles often lie. And I desperately hope this is a misleading title.

But what's wrong with Ash losing to Eeveelutions? They're not scary-looking, but the skill of the trainer that should shine through, too. Pikachu did get slapped around by a Magikarp once.

That is a good point on how the titles can be misleading, but considering that the following episode after this stars the new arc with N, I don't think that it's likely to happen here. I actually don't mind the idea of Ash losing to Eeveelutions, especially when he has lost to other Pokemon that aren't generally considered that strong either, such as Meowth and Magikarp, and they have shown Virgil's team to be pretty strong, so I don't think it would be difficult to believe Ash's Unova team losing to them. I just like the idea of Ash losing to Lucario more since it's awesome, but that's from my own personal bias.

Originally Posted by Musashi

Originally Posted by Ash's Battle Coach

and we do have a summary saying that he is battling Kotetsu and that Riolu evolves and Ash and Snivy are worried.

That's not about this episode though.

Um, yes it is.

And even if it weren't, there's still a lot of evidence to suggest Ash loses to Kotetsu, and none to suggest he loses to Virgil, or if he even battles him for that matter. Saying there is no reason to believe Kotetsu wins doesn't hold up when you look at the facts.

I get that people don't want Ash to lose here, and they desperately want the league to be better. I honestly though Ash would beat Kotetsu and lose to Virgil in the Semi's, but now everything points to a loss for Ash in the quarter's.

And sure, maybe by some miracle Ash wins and does face Virgil (even though nothing suggests this is going to happen), but honestly, I really don't want this to happen. It would be an even worse way to end this disaster of a league, having a rushed/skipped/montage full battle for the semi's against a Rival in the last half or so of an ep. It would be terribly underwhelming. If there were a couple more eps and plenty of time for a proper full battle than I would feel different about it.

This really was the worst league of the entire series, especially when you realize it was only 5 episodes long if you don't count the Axew filler.

Granted the Stephen battle looks really good, but that's the only thing about this league that was done well. All of Ash's Unova Pokes will only get one match, Ash literally only battles 3 people that we get to see, and the rivals were all handled horribly for different reasons.

I think the writers are just going to trash all the BW rivals after this and start fresh with the N arc. All their stories are done anyway.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

This really was the worst league of the entire series, especially when you realize it was only 5 episodes long if you don't count the Axew filler.

Granted the Stephen battle looks really good, but that's the only thing about this league that was done well. All of Ash's Unova Pokes will only get one match, Ash literally only battles 3 people that we get to see, and the rivals were all handled horribly for different reasons.

I think the writers are just going to trash all the BW rivals after this and start fresh with the N arc. All their stories are done anyway.

I don't know if this League could be any worse than the Indigo League, even with all of the problems this one clearly has. Depending on how Lucario vs. Pikachu is handled, that could make the Unova League more worthwhile for me, although that again has more do to with my personal bias. Still, I wouldn't be too surprised if this ended up being the second worst League.

I don't know about how many of the BW rivals they'll actually get rid of after the Unova League, especially when I can only see that happening with Trip and maybe Stephan, but I think that should be taken to either the thread on the N arc or the thread about Georgia and Burgundy's future rather than here.

Pretty much all the rivals have their stories wrapped up. Trip was written off quickly for a reason, and Bianca/Stephen simply don't have any more potential after this, they just got to the league and that's it. Kotetsu/Virgil will likely fade away just like all past league rivals, and especially like Morrisson and Tyson did.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

Pretty much all the rivals have their stories wrapped up. Trip was written off quickly for a reason, and Bianca/Stephen simply don't have any more potential after this, they just got to the league and that's it. Kotetsu/Virgil will likely fade away just like all past league rivals, and especially like Morrisson and Tyson did.

I understand what you're saying and there are some points I agree with, mainly Trip being written off and Kotetsu/Virgil disappearing like the other League rivals, but I don't think that speculation regarding the fate of the BW rivals really fits this preview thread. That would fit better with the a speculation thread on the N arc in general or the thread on Burgundy/Georgia if you want to talk about them, but I don't think that the subject of whether all of the BW rivals being written out of the series should be discussed in this thread.

>enters thread
>hears about the title and more
(facepalms)

I really hope Ash doesn't lose to Kotetsu, because then I could call Kotetsu a trope of some sort. But really? Best Wishes, I need a graph to tell you how bad you are, say the one from that Spongebob episode with Chum is Fun.

In other words, Best Wishes, you have a shocky thingy in your toilet.

Originally Posted by Winterdaze

To be honest, I don't really care if Ash doesn't get to battle Virgil. I mean, Virgil's team is so unbelievably terrible that I can't imagine them being able to make a good battle out of it anyway, in half an episode no less. So whether or not Ash get's to partake in the Shadow Ball fest that the Virgil battle would be really doesn't matter to me.

We know from the in-game World Tournament data that Virgil's Espeon knows Psychic, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball and Morning Sun; Umbreon knows Payback, Curse, Confuse Ray and Moonlight; Eevee knows Dig, Iron Tail, Trump Card and Return. A battle against Virgil obviously wouldn't have to be a Shadow Ball fest. Let's not give the writers credit for not bothering to properly include such a battle in their plans.

... Okay, now that was... unexpected. But... if he does lose to Koetsu - and it sounds like he certainly will - that's fine with me. Really, BW has been so full of crappy writing that nothing surprises me anymore - not even finishing in a lower rank than the last league. I am now fully convinced that Ash's development has truly been downgraded a few notches this saga; there's just no denying it now. As if there wasn't enough evidence of that already, what with Trip and all...

Really can't wait for Best Wishes N now. That had better be good. It's our last hope.

Originally Posted by Mareepy

...and he did beat Maylene's Lucario...

That battle ended in a draw.

Originally Posted by Silktree

Originally Posted by Winterdaze

To be honest, I don't really care if Ash doesn't get to battle Virgil. I mean, Virgil's team is so unbelievably terrible that I can't imagine them being able to make a good battle out of it anyway, in half an episode no less. So whether or not Ash get's to partake in the Shadow Ball fest that the Virgil battle would be really doesn't matter to me.

We know from the in-game World Tournament data that Virgil's Espeon knows Psychic, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball and Morning Sun; Umbreon knows Payback, Curse, Confuse Ray and Moonlight; Eevee knows Dig, Iron Tail, Trump Card and Return. A battle against Virgil obviously wouldn't have to be a Shadow Ball fest. Let's not give the writers credit for not bothering to properly include such a battle in their plans.

Eevee knows Dig, Protect and Helping Hand, as long as we know, and IIRC Umbreon also knows Shadow Ball. I bet a battle against him would have to be a Shadow Ball fest :T

Originally Posted by Trainer Gabriel

Originally Posted by Mareepy

...and he did beat Maylene's Lucario...

That battle ended in a draw.

I made a mistake, but still Ash shouldn't have lose to a Pokemon he have fought before and this one is commanded by a trainer that have way lower IQ than him, not an experinced Gym Leader.

Originally Posted by Metan

Eevee knows Dig, Protect and Helping Hand, as long as we know, and IIRC Umbreon also knows Shadow Ball. I bet a battle against him would have to be a Shadow Ball fest :T

The World Tournament data represents the anime movesets for Trip, Stephan and Kotetsu's teams. Chances are that Virgil's Pokémon won't be an exception (if we actually see them battle), and it really doesn't matter which moves they've used so far outside the league. Obviously, Eevee won't use Helping Hand in a single battle.