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Thread: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

  1. #316
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Oh Really !!!
    A Trainer who's too stupid to bring only 5 pokemon get to be Top 4 and have a team full of fully evolve pokemon while Ash lose , Thats is fair huh !
    What if Ash was one with 5 pokemon ?
    What if Ash defect Trip without bring out his 6th Pokemon ?
    Then You would shout about how unfair thats was !!!
    How would that be unfair? If it only takes you 5 Pokemon to win, then you're clearly better than the other trainer who needed 6 to still lose. Cameron will deserve to win this battle, even if it is the double knockout situation - because he has a Pokemon left (I'm sure he will actually have a sixth regardless of his surprise at it being not 5 on 5) and was still able to win.

    You can complain about Cameron being made as strong as he is, but I don't for a second have an issue with him winning in the circumstance.

    .
    Kotetsu's victory here is not only unfair to Ash but its unfair to Paul , Gary , Morrison , Conway , Nando , and all other deserving trainer !
    And Kotetsu is beating Ash by the blessing of the writer , Not because he's really strong !
    He winning all his battle with nothing but Brute force !
    After Pokemon character aren't real So writer can do whatever they want.
    Just why A idiot like Kotetsu can beat Ash despite using 5 pokemon !
    Thats why its unfair ! Writer doesn't let Ash beat a complete rookie just because he studied but they let a complete idiot beat Ash with just 5 pokemon.
    There isn't anything with wrong Ash beating Kotetsu and lose to virgil in a 10 minute Battle.
    Atleast , Nobody would be piss by this.
    I would be mightily annoyed if he lost a final league battle in 10 minutes to anyone
    It's much better then losing to a total idiot who has only 5 Pokemon.
    Atleast , Ash would have some dignity left.
    There no need for Ash final League Battle to be 2 episode Pokemon just to satisfy girl like you since we know his opponent has nothing but Eeveelution.
    Last edited by Hurricane Kishore; 29th December 2012 at 05:28 AM.

  2. #317
    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Just why A idiot like Kotetsu can beat Ash despite using 5 pokemon !
    Because he's an idiot with 5 strong Pokemon.

    Ash didn't train for the league - he deserves to lose. Ash doing well in the Unova league would be 'unfair' to the effort Ash went to in getting as far as he did in past leagues.

  3. #318
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Just why A idiot like Kotetsu can beat Ash despite using 5 pokemon !
    Because he's an idiot with 5 strong Pokemon.

    Ash didn't train for the league - he deserves to lose. Ash doing well in the Unova league would be 'unfair' to the effort Ash went to in getting as far as he did in past leagues.
    He got 5 strong Pokemon because writer just hand them over to him.
    Just like Iris has 3 strong pokemon ,
    Just like Gerogia , Cabernet , Bianca , Stephan and everybody beside Ash has team full of fully evolved and developed Pokemon .
    And How do you know that Kotetsu train much more then Ash for the League ????
    Did you go to Pokemon world to see whats he's doing ??
    Oh ,You thought Kotetsu is an Off-screen Character so you can make up whatever you want since he doesn't even exist outside the show huh.
    Ash clearly trained in Cynthia villa but if you don't remember .
    But I guess its Ash fault that writer decide to focus on Cilan and Iris rather prepare Ash for League.
    Making stupid Nursery and Tag-battle Battle to show Cilan's evaluating skill.
    While a Stupid cross dress Episode , Dragon village episode and Drayden episode for Iris.
    Your right , Ash must told writer to do that even if that mean not showing Ash training HUH .
    Ya , Its clearly Ash's fault that writer focus on other character rather then focusing on Ash's training and developing his pokemon for marketing purpose.
    By the way ,
    Aren't your one of them who keep shouting to give Iris ,Cilan and other character more episode.

  4. #319

    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    There are many anime characters who act like idiots but are very capable in their own field. This is because humor comes first in Japan, while viewers from other countries expect a consistent characterization. Pre-BW Ash was idiotic, but he could be very creative in Pokemon battles. BW Ash is consistently idiotic. Consider Alder- he is a champion but is also lazy and somewhat lecherous. In almost every anime, you get characters like these. It's all for teh lulz.
    Cameron on the other hand is a trainer with strong Pokemon but absolutely no idea about type matchups. So he is not even good in battling. He is like an exaggerated BW Ash.
    It is true that the writers lost the plot completely in the Unova league, but with the condition of Ash's current team, he doesn't deserve to get any higher. The Pokemon in his team with the most balanced moveset is Krookodile, who isn't even in his team for this battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    There isn't anything with wrong Ash beating Kotetsu and lose to virgil in a 10 minute Battle.
    Atleast , Nobody would be piss by this.
    But Writer chose Kotetsu to win just so he can challenge Virgil with 5 pokemon again which will defiantly piss majority of people !
    Now thing like Tactic seem so worthless since A idiot can win it all with nothing but brute force .Kotetsu deserve to lose this because its his own fault for not bring a 6th pokemon !
    A trainer like that doesn't deserve to be in Top 4.
    Everything is wrong about Ash losing to Virgil in a 10 minute battle. Ash is the protagonist - it's his journey we are following. He doesn't deserve to be reduced to pulp just because a new saga will be coming up.
    Cameron is an idiot, but Virgil is a marketing tool with a gimmicky team. Losing to Cameron isn't any worse than being curbstomped by Virgil.
    Brute force has its merits. I'd rather not see a character in the anime having a team of six Luvdisc and using over the top strategies.
    There is nothing wrong with using 5 Pokemon if Cameron can win. Tobias won in Sinnoh with 2 Pokemon in the entire tournament.
    I agree with you that "A trainer like that doesn't deserve to be in Top 4".
    Except that I am talking about Ash.
    Last edited by The One and Only RA; 29th December 2012 at 06:21 AM.

  5. #320
    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Your right , Ash must told writer to do that even if that mean not showing Ash training HUH .
    Everything is written - and because episodes that would have built up a deserved win for Ash in the league, or a strong finishing position weren't written, it is only right that a loss in the league is written. The exact plot device used to achieve that isn't ideal - I'd rather he lost to Bianca - but there is nothing in the whole of BW that gives me the impression Ash's current lineup of Pokemon is strong enough to be the best trainer in the region, especially with how his last Gym battle went. If he needed 6 Pokemon to beat 3 in a Gym battle, why is losing 6 to 5 in the top 8 of the league a shock?

    I hope that the episodes that follow the league put context to what Ash views as his comparative failures - I'd rather he lose the league early and learn a lesson from it than just going back home and starting again hoping for the best in a new region.

  6. #321

    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    I hope that the episodes that follow the league put context to what Ash views as his comparative failures - I'd rather he lose the league early and learn a lesson from it than just going back home and starting again hoping for the best in a new region.
    Character development for Ash? I wouldn't hold my breath.

  7. #322
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by The One and Only RA View Post
    There are many anime characters who act like idiots but are very capable in their own field. This is because humor comes first in Japan, while viewers from other countries expect a consistent characterization. Pre-BW Ash was idiotic, but he could be very creative in Pokemon battles. BW Ash is consistently idiotic. Consider Alder- he is a champion but is also lazy and somewhat lecherous. In almost every anime, you get characters like these. It's all for teh lulz.
    Cameron on the other hand is a trainer with strong Pokemon but absolutely no idea about type matchups. So he is not even good in battling. He is like an exaggerated BW Ash.
    It is true that the writers lost the plot completely in the Unova league, but with the condition of Ash's current team, he doesn't deserve to get any higher. The Pokemon in his team with the most balanced moveset is Krookodile, who isn't even in his team for this battle.
    A Pokemon trainer is more important then Pokemon he has !
    If Kotetsu get to rank higher then Ash just because he has 5 strong Pokemon then it just prove that Paul was right .
    People who just catchs strong pokemon become top trainer ! Even if there trainer happen to be a idiot .
    And Virgil may only has only Eeveelution but he happen to be much more Mature then Kotetsu .
    Losing to him isn't humiliating for Ash as a Protagonist .
    Plus , Writer doesn't need to show the whole battle , They can just skipped to the last Part .
    That much better for Ash , As a Protagonist he shouldn't lose to a idiot with 5 pokemon .
    Oh , Trobias wasn't a idiot and he had legendary Pokemon .
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Your right , Ash must told writer to do that even if that mean not showing Ash training HUH .
    Everything is written - and because episodes that would have built up a deserved win for Ash in the league, or a strong finishing position weren't written, it is only right that a loss in the league is written. ave The exact plot device used to achieve that isn't ideal - I'd rather he lost to Bianca - but there is nothing in the whole of BW that gives me the impression Ash's current lineup of Pokemon is strong enough to be the best trainer in the region, especially with how his last Gym battle went. If he needed 6 Pokemon to beat 3 in a Gym battle, why is losing 6 's to 5 in the top 8 of the league a shock?

    I hope that the episodes that follow the league put context to what Ash views as his comparative failures - I'd rather he lose the league early and learn a lesson from it than just going back home and starting again hoping for the best in a new region.
    You don't get it !
    Ash current lineup is unfair for Ash.
    A idiot like Kotetsu can have 5 super strong Pokemon without showing any training while Ash can't have 5 fully evolved pokemon and he have to show his training in order to evolve his pokemon !!!
    Seriously , Why does Ash has to follow the rule while everybody just free !
    If Writer just evolve Ash's Snivy , Palpitoad and Boldore then Ash would had a strong team.
    Also , Writer could teach his Pokemon more new move off-screen .
    But writer didn't !
    There was enough time for all that after Junior cup but writer decided to focus on other character.
    There was enough time for Ash to do some serious training however he couldn't for you people
    After All , If Writer focus on Ash training then you people complain them to be boring and want more adventure episode where other character gets more Spotlight ! But If Writer does that then you people are same person Who accuse Ash for not training enough.
    I don't mind if Writer complete focus on Ash's training and development.
    Its you people who has a problem with it !
    I mean , Seriously what you people even want ???
    By the way , Face the reality !
    You treating Pokemon character to be real person when Pokemon is an anime where Character are control by the writer ! They aren't real person .
    Ash current state isn't his fault and he doesn't deserve that !
    But Writer mistreating him as badly they can to act fair .
    Last edited by Hurricane Kishore; 29th December 2012 at 06:53 AM.

  8. #323

    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    That much better for Ash , As a Protagonist he shouldn't lose to a idiot with 5 pokemon .
    Very difficult question indeed, who should win: an idiot with 6 Pokemon or an even bigger idiot with 5 much stronger ones?
    I'd go for Cameron, just because of his team. You may think otherwise.

  9. #324
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by The One and Only RA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    That much better for Ash , As a Protagonist he shouldn't lose to a idiot with 5 pokemon .
    Very difficult question indeed, who should win: an idiot with 6 Pokemon or an even bigger idiot with 5 much stronger ones?
    I'd go for Cameron, just because of his team. You may think otherwise.
    The bigger idiot deserve to lose .
    Having 5 strong Pokemon doesn't justify Kotetsu !
    Pokemon battle depend on how a trainer use's his Pokemon .
    Even small pokemon like Snivy , scraggy and Pikachu can win if there trainer is smart enough to use them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Your right , Ash must told writer to do that even if that mean not showing Ash training HUH .
    I hope that the episodes that follow the league put context to what Ash views as his comparative failures - I'd rather he lose the league early and learn a lesson from it than just going back home and starting again hoping for the best in a new region.
    Ash already gone though greater Character development with Paul.
    He was develop enough to reach Paul level .
    There noway he was in a state where A rookie and a idiot couldn't beat him without breaking a swat !
    Its Kotetsu who should go though character development .
    Plus , What the point of Ash's Character development if he have to lose them in a new series ????
    There no need for Ash's character development if he isn't even allow to keep his development while other can.
    Last edited by Hurricane Kishore; 29th December 2012 at 07:02 AM.

  10. #325
    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Ash already gone though greater Character development with Paul.
    He was develop enough to reach Paul level .
    There noway he was in a state where A rookie and a idiot couldn't beat him without breaking a swat !
    Its Kotetsu who should go though character development .
    Plus , What the point of Ash's Character development if he have to lose them in a new series ????
    There no need for Ash's character development if he isn't even allow to keep his development while other can.
    His DP Pokemon developed to the point they could beat Paul - he even went to the extent of using the same team as his previous loss precisely because he developed his team as a group and used those group experiences to get across the line. Ash didn't beat Paul with overall strength.

    Ash can only make his new captures capable of equalling the strengths of his past achievements if he puts the same level of effort in to achieving that. Pikachu getting most of the wins in this league, followed by Pignite who got the most development across the series shouldn't be surprising with that in mind.

    I see no reason to couch everything in what the writers do - the characters are written as they are written, and because of how they are written, I have views about what the right outcome of a situation should be and how they should be written into the future.

    Ash was badly handled in BW - which means that he shouldn't be turned around at the league into a champion he isn't. You don't solve bad writing with more bad writing.

  11. #326
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Ash already gone though greater Character development with Paul.
    He was develop enough to reach Paul level .
    There noway he was in a state where A rookie and a idiot couldn't beat him without breaking a swat !
    Its Kotetsu who should go though character development .
    Plus , What the point of Ash's Character development if he have to lose them in a new series ????
    There no need for Ash's character development if he isn't even allow to keep his development while other can.
    His DP Pokemon developed to the point they could beat Paul - he even went to the extent of using the same team as his previous loss precisely because he developed his team as a group and used those group experiences to get across the line. Ash didn't beat Paul with overall strength.

    Ash can only make his new captures capable of equalling the strengths of his past achievements if he puts the same level of effort in to achieving that. Pikachu getting most of the wins in this league, followed by Pignite who got the most development across the series shouldn't be surprising with that in mind.

    I see no reason to couch everything in what the writers do - the characters are written as they are written, and because of how they are written, I have views about what the right outcome of a situation should be and how they should be written into the future.

    Ash was badly handled in BW - which means that he shouldn't be turned around at the league into a champion he isn't. You don't solve bad writing with more bad writing.
    Then you shouldn't blame Ash for the way writer mistreat him !
    you talking about Ash not putting any effort !
    Oh , I remember , You don't care if other character doesn't put any effort expect Ash !
    Everyone can turn into a champion without any effort expect Ash !
    Thats your point huh !
    You know , I remember how Cilan turn into some powerful trainer whos stronger then all A-class connoisseur ! I don't remember ever seeing him training .
    Unlike you , I believe that If Ash has to show effort then other character has to do the same or it will be worthless .
    Just because Ash is the protagonist doesn't mean that he can't have everything other can !
    Writer could sent Ash in a special training after his gym battle with Roxie.
    But instate they focus on some stupid Junior Cup and they put some worthless filler before that.
    Is this Also Ash's fault ????
    As far as I know , Kotetsu might caught Hydregion just like Iris caught a Dragonite.
    And Ferrseed and Swana are common Pokemon so Kotetsu might caught them rather evolve them .
    And Ash himself has 3 fully evolve Pokemon , don't forget that !
    Atleast Ash shown way more effort then Kotetsu .
    Nobody expect Ash to win that League but we atleast want him to lose with dignity ! Ash's dignity matter too.
    There is no dignity in losing to a trainer who's too stupid to bring only 5 pokemon in a full battle even if its a Lucario !
    Trainer matter more then their Pokemon.
    There no point in watching a 10 minute battle between Kotetsu & Virgil where Kotetsu use only 5 pokemon again !
    If he doesn't have a full team then he just lose to Ash here instate .
    I rather Ash in Kotetsu's place instate .
    And its not bad writing ! Unless You're Ash-hater.
    Since We already know Ash going to lose then its better if Ash lose to Virgil in a skipped Battle and teach the same position he got in Sinnoh Pokemon.
    Ash may not have super powerful pokemon like Hydregion or Samurott but he's more deserving of that position as a trainer !
    Last edited by Hurricane Kishore; 29th December 2012 at 07:55 AM.

  12. #327
    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Yes, if the writers wrote everything up to the league differently I'd have a different opinion on what the writers should write during the league.

  13. #328
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    In Indigo League , Ash lose to Richie who had Pikachu , Charmender and Butterfree !
    If we count Pokemon from that battle and the full battle after that then Ash's team was way better then Richie. (Specially with the Oaked Pokemon )
    But Not only Ash lose , It was the most humiliating League defect anyone character could ever have in his very first League battle.
    Even Iris manage to go 2 round of Junior Cup with her disobedient Dragonite.
    And Now Ash again suffer another humiliating League defect despite he opponent happen to be too stupid to bring only 5 pokemon Pokemon.
    Just because he has 5 strong Pokemon.
    Then what was wrong in Indigo league ? Ash clearly had stronger Pokemon then Richie so Why he had to suffer such an humiliating Defect.
    People was bettering him there.
    If Ash was too weak to control his Charizard then Kotetsu's too stupid for bring only 5 Pokemon.
    Why does Ash had to suffer such a terrible consciousness in his very first League for his mistake while Kotetsu get to get away with it ????
    What ? Is Ash happen to be a only character who has suffer consciousness while other don't have too !

  14. #329
    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    All we know is that Cameron was surprised it was a 6 on 6 battle - considering every round shown has changed the amount of Pokemon that each battle uses it's hardly the worst thing in the world that someone might get it wrong. We don't know how many Pokemon he actually has on hand - he probably does have a full 6 - but if he can beat Ash with 5 it doesn't matter.

    Ash isn't being humiliated - the battle so far is even, by virtue of stupid battle choices on both sides - Cameron would be even further ahead in battle if he didn't make the bad choices that he has.

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    Default Re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    I'm going to jump in this argument and tell about game bullshit.

    For example, say there were two trainers in a battle.

    Let's call one trainer "Ash" and the other trainer "Cameron".

    Let's say Ash has almost all of his Pokémon at Lv60, and Cameron's at Lv65. So far, what's left is Lucario VS Pikachu. Because of how high-powered Lucario is, Cameron, because of how easily the moron beat Ash's Pokémon, technically, he would win.

    This is better than Ash winning, but of course this means Ash not fighting Virgil, but face it. It's not because the writers hate Ash or something - it's true-blue game logic.
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