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Thread: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    What happens if Ash wins Cameron but decides to give up his place to him???? I would say its nice but from a fan point of view i can see oly character development but not development towards his goal

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajagopal90 View Post
    What happens if Ash wins Cameron but decides to give up his place to him???? I would say its nice but from a fan point of view i can see oly character development but not development towards his goal
    Why would Ash do that? Because he felt bad that Cameron lost because he mistakenly used only 5 Pokemon instead of 6?

    I mean I know Ash is nowhere near perfect or mature (well at least comparing his Kanto and BW personas) but I mean if a trainer somehow makes it to the Pokemon League and Top 8 at this point Cameron's tendency to not pay attention to detail, screw up and whatnot are no excuse at all for losing. I don't feel bad whatsoever.

    However, I do see your point if Ash did give up the win, it would show a lot of maturity and character considering we rarely see any of that "mature Ash" throughout BW. Though I really don't see that happening. The closest we've seen to this is against Morrison who was about to be disqualified for not choosing a Pokemon and Ash butted in on the refs decision to give him some more time to think.

    But still, kind of messed up Ash helping him out considering that if not for Ash, Cameron would not have even made it into the league. Ash was the one that pleaded with Nurse Joy to let him in and now because of his kind-heart he is about to be screwed in what could be one of the most undeserved wins in the tournament. But that's just my thoughts...

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rajagopal90 View Post
    What happens if Ash wins Cameron but decides to give up his place to him???? I would say its nice but from a fan point of view i can see oly character development but not development towards his goal
    Why would Ash do that? Because he felt bad that Cameron lost because he mistakenly used only 5 Pokemon instead of 6?

    I mean I know Ash is nowhere near perfect or mature (well at least comparing his Kanto and BW personas) but I mean if a trainer somehow makes it to the Pokemon League and Top 8 at this point Cameron's tendency to not pay attention to detail, screw up and whatnot are no excuse at all for losing. I don't feel bad whatsoever.

    However, I do see your point if Ash did give up the win, it would show a lot of maturity and character considering we rarely see any of that "mature Ash" throughout BW. Though I really don't see that happening. The closest we've seen to this is against Morrison who was about to be disqualified for not choosing a Pokemon and Ash butted in on the refs decision to give him some more time to think.

    But still, kind of messed up Ash helping him out considering that if not for Ash, Cameron would not have even made it into the league. Ash was the one that pleaded with Nurse Joy to let him in and now because of his kind-heart he is about to be screwed in what could be one of the most undeserved wins in the tournament. But that's just my thoughts...
    Exactly what i would like to see at this point.. character development :) Its he who helped Cameron to register but ultimately it may also lead to his downfall in the league.
    Yet Ash can take some heart(if he wins) from this match that he won a pseudo-legendary and also a powerful fighting type which almost took out his team of 6 pokes :)

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    [QUOTE=Rajagopal90;4521142]
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post

    Exactly what i would like to see at this point.. character development :) Its he who helped Cameron to register but ultimately it may also lead to his downfall in the league.
    Yet Ash can take some heart(if he wins) from this match that he won a pseudo-legendary and also a powerful fighting type which almost took out his team of 6 pokes :)
    True, I see what you mean.

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    Registered User Zweilous's Avatar
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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajagopal90 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rajagopal90 View Post
    What happens if Ash wins Cameron but decides to give up his place to him???? I would say its nice but from a fan point of view i can see oly character development but not development towards his goal
    Why would Ash do that? Because he felt bad that Cameron lost because he mistakenly used only 5 Pokemon instead of 6?

    I mean I know Ash is nowhere near perfect or mature (well at least comparing his Kanto and BW personas) but I mean if a trainer somehow makes it to the Pokemon League and Top 8 at this point Cameron's tendency to not pay attention to detail, screw up and whatnot are no excuse at all for losing. I don't feel bad whatsoever.

    However, I do see your point if Ash did give up the win, it would show a lot of maturity and character considering we rarely see any of that "mature Ash" throughout BW. Though I really don't see that happening. The closest we've seen to this is against Morrison who was about to be disqualified for not choosing a Pokemon and Ash butted in on the refs decision to give him some more time to think.

    But still, kind of messed up Ash helping him out considering that if not for Ash, Cameron would not have even made it into the league. Ash was the one that pleaded with Nurse Joy to let him in and now because of his kind-heart he is about to be screwed in what could be one of the most undeserved wins in the tournament. But that's just my thoughts...
    Exactly what i would like to see at this point.. character development :) Its he who helped Cameron to register but ultimately it may also lead to his downfall in the league.
    Yet Ash can take some heart(if he wins) from this match that he won a pseudo-legendary and also a powerful fighting type which almost took out his team of 6 pokes :)
    I have to disagree, I think that the idea would really backfire on Ash and especially Cameron considering his already negative reception. True, Ash would be showing maturity but on the flipside that means rewarding Cameron for his mistakes since he still willingly brought 5 pokemon without checking and sent out two pokemon with horrible disadvantages against their opponents, so that's hurting his development in trade for Ash's. Also, that would contribute even more to the points made against him since he'd be making it far not on his merits but on luck and the generosity of those around him.
    Last edited by Zweilous; 25th December 2012 at 05:33 PM.

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zweilous View Post

    I have to disagree, I think that the idea would really backfire on Ash and especially Cameron considering his already negative reception. True, Ash would be showing maturity but on the flipside that means rewarding Cameron for his mistakes since he still willingly brought 5 pokemon without checking and sent out two pokemon with horrible disadvantages against their opponents, so that's hurting his development in trade for Ash's. Also, that would contribute even more to the points made against him since he'd be making it far not on his merits but on luck and the generosity of those around him.
    I see what you mean the only other example I can think of is if Ash won in an undeserved win and handed over the victory would be if his Charizard had actually beat Sparky in the Indigo League and Ash won instead of lost against Richie. If I remember in the manga, it was Charizard vs. Zippo (also a Charizard) and Ash's was too violent to control and it actually beat Zippo to a pulp even bit its neck and Ash won. However, he disqualified himself and gave the win to his friend.

    That is honorable and shows a lot of character unlike Iris whose Dragonite literally pounded two Ice types and instead of bowing out gracefully she just said "whatever" and kept on using that same Pokemon in the other matches...

    In this case, you make a good point. I don't see why he'd even consider giving the win away since he made no mistakes it was Cameron who was unprepared for the battle so what do you do about that?

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    That is honorable and shows a lot of character unlike Iris whose Dragonite literally pounded two Ice types and instead of bowing out gracefully she just said "whatever" and kept on using that same Pokemon in the other matches...
    When did Iris say ''whatever''? Oh, you mean after her battle with Georgia, where Georgia mocked Iris after her victory and Iris decided to not let herself be bothered by it? Did you honestly think that Iris was being wrong by doing what she did, and did you honestly except her to bow out gracefully to Georgia out of all people? It's Iris, not Princess Salvia.

    Not to mention that Iris did herself state that she didn't feel like she deserved the victory after her battle with Dawn in the original episode
    ''A single thread in a tapestry though its color brightly shine, can never see its purpose, in the pattern of the grand design.''

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    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Since this isn't BW666 - Unova League Conclusion! Lucario vs Dragonite!, Iris discussion, if not relevant to the episode, should be in the proper debate threads.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    I have to say, the battle looks very good visually and action wise. Lucario seems to be the sole focus, Tsutarja and Pikachu are giving it their all. I wonder if the battle comes down that Elekiball/Aura Sphere collision. I wonder how the latter half of the episode will go however? Only got battle in the preview.

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    @Chiplet not trying to go fully Iris discussion here just used it as a slight illustration of the point I was trying to get across. Anyway, saying that you don't feel like you deserved to win and actually handing over the match to the person that truly did are two different things, just saying.


    Comparing Riolu/Lucario to the final match with Paul's Electavire:

    Both Pokemon were fresh and had to battle 3 of Ash's remaining Pokemon


    Electavire took out Gliscor without taking any damage/Riolu beat Unfezant without getting hit once

    Electavire took slight damage from Pikachu before beating it/Riolu took some damage from Snivy and then evolved into Lucario

    Electavire was finally defeated by Infernape (who was damaged from recoil from its Flare Blitz with Aggron, Toxic Spikes and Giga Drain from Ninjask/Pikachu was damaged against Samurott and Swanna

    Well if I see it this way, Snivy may actually inflict a little damage with its attacks before being knocked out, then Pikachu will close out the match (victory or defeat is still in question)...

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Technically, if Kotetsu has 5 Pokemon, then each Pokémon he has should count, in my eyes, as 1/5 of that, or 1.2 per Pokemon = 6. So, even if Ash lost to Kotetsu, Kotetsu would only have 1.2 of a Pokémon left.

    In other words, Ash WILL lose to Kotetsu, even if Cameron is using 5 and Ash has 6.
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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by johnr754 View Post
    Technically, if Kotetsu has 5 Pokemon, then each Pokémon he has should count, in my eyes, as 1/5 of that, or 1.2 per Pokemon = 6. So, even if Ash lost to Kotetsu, Kotetsu would only have 1.2 of a Pokémon left.

    In other words, Ash WILL lose to Kotetsu, even if Cameron is using 5 and Ash has 6.
    I know I shouldn't do this but in this case I'll compare the anime to the games. If you go into the Pokemon league with 3 Pokemon while the E4/Champion has 4 or more (depending on the game and whatnot) then if you lose your 3 Pokemon you've lost and if your 3 Pokemon beat their 4 or 6 then you win.

    If that's the case yeah, Ash would lose say he beat Cameron or lose if Lucario (5th and last Pokemon) defeated Ash's remaining 2 out of 6 Pokemon. Pretty much sums it up, I just want to see what happens.

    What would really make things strange is if the writers made Cameron pull and Ash and run out of the arena to go pick up another Pokemon like Ash did at the Nimbasa Gym (probably not happening since we don't see it in the previews or anything but just saying it would be something else to see them pull that stupid stunt again)...
    Last edited by Paulisthebest; 26th December 2012 at 09:40 PM.

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by johnr754 View Post
    Technically, if Kotetsu has 5 Pokemon, then each Pokémon he has should count, in my eyes, as 1/5 of that, or 1.2 per Pokemon = 6. So, even if Ash lost to Kotetsu, Kotetsu would only have 1.2 of a Pokémon left.

    In other words, Ash WILL lose to Kotetsu, even if Cameron is using 5 and Ash has 6.
    I know I shouldn't do this but in this case I'll compare the anime to the games. If you go into the Pokemon league with 3 Pokemon while the E4/Champion has 4 or more (depending on the game and whatnot) then if you lose your 3 Pokemon you've lost and if your 3 Pokemon beat their 4 or 6 then you win.

    If that's the case yeah, Ash would lose say he beat Cameron or lose if Lucario (5th and last Pokemon) defeated Ash's remaining 2 out of 6 Pokemon. Pretty much sums it up, I just want to see what happens.

    What would really make things strange is if the writers made Cameron pull and Ash and run out of the arena to go pick up another Pokemon like Ash did at the Nimbasa Gym (probably not happening since we don't see it in the previews or anything but just saying it would be something else to see them pull that stupid stunt again)...
    Wow, I forgot about that.

    In the game case, if you solo the E4 with something like Torterra, no bullshit happens.

    Either way, Ash WILL lose, unless his team gets one-shot by a legendary, Arceus, or a Torterra.
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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    I know Ash going to lose this league but can't he have dignifying defect rather then a humiliating defect.
    Atleast Ash could lose to Virgil , That would have been dignifying.
    Instate of losing to a idiot trainer who use only 5 pokemon.
    But again , We can't expect anything less from some Ash-hater Writer.

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    Default re: BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

    [QUOTE=johnr754;4522901]
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post

    Wow, I forgot about that.

    In the game case, if you solo the E4 with something like Torterra, no bullshit happens.

    Either way, Ash WILL lose, unless his team gets one-shot by a legendary, Arceus, or a Torterra.
    Yeah, a lot of different things to consider, it just shocked me that the announcer didn't really say anything about it. Oh well...

    Wonder if Snivy will try an Attract? In the downloadable tournament Lucario is a male so I wonder if the same thing will happen in the anime?

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