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  1. #31
    I am sneaking at you! Spypitoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Palpitoad the White View Post
    But do you think that the target audience is happy with BW?
    Yeah, given five-year-olds probably could care less about things like character development, pacing, etc. They're just watching the show to see cute monsters fight each other.
    Just as I did when I was younger.
    I know all your secrets!

    BECAUSE I AM THE SPYPITOAD!

  2. #32
    Registered User Nymphia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.
    I'm not talking about us on this forum. I'm talking about in general. Kinda hard to miss.
    They pointlessly bought back Dawn out of desperation.
    True, in the first moment that cameos are allowed they decided to bring back Dawn, one of the most popular character of Diamond and Pearl. @Druddigon loves top references 5-year old children which means that for you are the reply. When she appeared, apart of the poster (who screams main cast) every official website updated for Season 2 had Dawn included on them with the main characters (it's considered one more of the griup, literally9 I checked the four websites and in all four she was. An older fan could know that's a cameo because Contests were not promoted for being in the games; a child of 5 (6,7 or even 8
    They bought back Cynthia (sure she's in the games, but it still feels a little suspicious).
    Cynthia is the "Anime Champion". Cynthia is the champion of the4 champion, specially in the anime. Given that is in the same pack fo promotions, she appears on 9 episodes (to Alder 5, 4 of them shared) and his heavy role, it's a clear attempt to appease DP fans.
    They had Giovanni step up to bat (I know that was intended from the TPvTR 2 parter, but still).
    This isn't desesperation for anything. It's marketing serious TR which means doing missions for Giovanni.
    They bought back the Eevee Family and went out of their way to have Lucario appear.
    There's always doing marketing but it's not casuality that the two most popular pokemon of the BW2 dex are in the league with "heavy" merchandise.
    It almost felt like N and Team Plasma were bought in to appease fans.
    N is the most popular BW game character. This because something.
    They randomly bought back Charizard.
    Apart of the merchandise that are selling, Charizard was an attemopt to please older fans.
    We've had two episodes with Kanto flashbacks & shout outs, and the upcoming Lapras episode will likely have an Orange Island flashback, I shouldn't wonder.
    They suddenly care about pnostalgia in a series that they almost never do that. The plot of the Butterfree episode is made to remind it with Nye Nye Butterfree.
    The Decolora Archipelago is infested with Pokémon from previous generations.
    Normal; we aren't in Unova anymore.
    Oak's been popped for a while (even reviving that Muk running gag while they're at it) and got an episode.
    Normal, Oak hasn't never dissappeared fopr the show, specially in Japan.
    We're getting a Claire episode.
    Bri8nging back Older Gym leader serves as a promotion of nostalgia to older fans. Itr'0s Clair because is a Dragon-type Gym leader reloated to Iris.
    The TRio is back to being the Bungle Brigade.
    Because the audience didn't like being serious. And the audience who liked it, had to digest that the Plasma episodes weren't aired.
    We may or may not have appearances by Delia and Tracey near the end.
    Of there's only those, there isn't pandering too much. The problem is that I have the feeling that there's won't be the only ones.
    There's even the DA ending, with its many cameos by characters past.
    This ending was a true pandering. Hide the ending until the last minute, show the ending with all the nostalgia and after that, try to promote the upcoming movie.

    If that isn't pandering, it sure feels like it!
    The franchise is dropping in audience in general. Because that, the anime franchise is relying into the most imopoirtant audience, the Japanese audience, who is the audience who brings money.

    To take a basic idea (I don'0t know (I hope I knew)) where Pokemon is doing financially, I think that works like that:
    -In Japan, they are gaining money from the franchise in general. Not like other years, but the franchise is successful and I doubt that they are truly losing money.
    -In America, I have more doubts but I think that the franchise is winning money.
    -In Europe, it's clearly losing money. And in my country is literally obvious that they're not winning anything (What merchandise exist?)
    -I think that the franchise is losing money right now in these months because the costs of XY production, In theory, it's transitory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Palpitoad the White View Post
    But do you think that the target audience is happy with BW?
    Yeah, given five-year-olds probably could care less about things like character development, pacing, etc. They're just watching the show to see cute monsters fight each other.
    Children are not idiots, remember. Achildren of 8,9,10 years could care about writing, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZexMachine View Post
    That was 6 episodes. Not 24 of them, with a new opening and season title. After all, if they had timed DP a bit better, there would have been a Johto Battle Frontier...
    This show has always been about promoting and marketing, nothing turned into a marketing show. Is this one of those "It's okay for DP but not BW" replies?



    Just to be clear, I liked BW(Except for the League arc. and a few gym battles) a lot up until Da! (Very hit-and-miss and TR being incompetent.)
    The showe is for promoting, but tnow they are too much focuses in oroimoting for Japan.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GO, GO, GO, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    I want to start with XY as soon as is possible.

    I have unpopular opinions: I prefer an older character returning but it isn't from the original trio. I was one of the few who liked both DP and BW. And I think that TR shouldn't leave in the anime.

  3. #33
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphia View Post
    True, in the first moment that cameos are allowed they decided to bring back Dawn, one of the most popular character of Diamond and Pearl. @Druddigon loves top references 5-year old children which means that for you are the reply. When she appeared, apart of the poster (who screams main cast) every official website updated for Season 2 had Dawn included on them with the main characters (it's considered one more of the griup, literally9 I checked the four websites and in all four she was. An older fan could know that's a cameo because Contests were not promoted for being in the games; a child of 5 (6,7 or even 8
    I can't understand that part.

    it's a clear attempt to appease DP fans.
    Wrong. It's what you perceive, not what it actually is. I'm tired of saying it over and over the writers. don't. give. a. crap about the people on this forum.

    They bought back the Eevee Family and went out of their way to have Lucario appear.
    Riolu and Eevee are main Pokemon BW2, what of it? Kanto starters appeared in AG for the same reason with FRLG.

    N is the most popular BW game character. This because something.
    He appeared because of the Plasma arc., if it was any other season he would have. The job of the writers is to adapt game stuff into the anime, it's natural and normal and not to "appease" fans. Again, what would the writers give a shit about "catering" to such a small minority of people that:

    A.Don't watch the show on TV.(or most legally for that matter)...
    B.Aren't in the target audience and..
    C.Ratings don't account for.

    You seriously overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think that.
    Charizard was an attemopt to please older fans.
    Charizard was an attempt to sell merchandise, just like all Pokemon are. If it was for "older fans" you would think the ratings for the Charizard episode would have been off the charts, but they were the exact same as any old BW episodes. Because "older fans" aren't the one's the writers were looking for.

    They suddenly care about pnostalgia in a series that they almost never do that. The plot of the Butterfree episode is made to remind it with Nye Nye Butterfree.
    Nostalgia, what? DP brought back older Pokemon too. Da! was advertised as a series of tears and laughter on the poster, the idea behind that episode was to give some nice emotion not to "pander" to older fans.
    Bri8nging back Older Gym leader serves as a promotion of nostalgia to older fans. Itr'0s Clair because is a Dragon-type Gym leader reloated to Iris.
    Iris, that is all. Female Gym Leader and female aspiring Dragon Master, story purposes.

    Because the audience didn't like being serious. And the audience who liked it, had to digest that the Plasma episodes weren't aired.
    I've absolutely seen nothing that suggest the audience had a problem with TR being serious, only thing I've seen is that TR's seiyuu seemed to have a problem with it.
    This ending was a true pandering. Hide the ending until the last minute, show the ending with all the nostalgia and after that, try to promote the upcoming movie.
    Older character and older Pokemon have appeared in openings/endings since forever, the writers have been doing this since OS. It's absolutely normal.
    The franchise is dropping in audience in general. Because that, the anime franchise is relying into the most imopoirtant audience, the Japanese audience, who is the audience who brings money.
    Pokemon Anime is dropping in ratings slowly over the years, but ratings for every show are dropping simply because people aren't watching TV like they used to. Naruto and One Piece used to have much higher ratings but they've dropped over the years as well, this is with every show in Japan and even in America.
    To take a basic idea (I don'0t know (I hope I knew)) where Pokemon is doing financially, I think that works like that:
    -In Japan, they are gaining money from the franchise in general. Not like other years, but the franchise is successful and I doubt that they are truly losing money.
    -In America, I have more doubts but I think that the franchise is winning money.
    -In Europe, it's clearly losing money. And in my country is literally obvious that they're not winning anything (What merchandise exist?)
    -I think that the franchise is losing money right now in these months because the costs of XY production, In theory, it's transitory.
    That makes no sense the anime department and overall gaming department aren't that connected to each other, Nintendo and Gamefreaks take care of the games and the anime is taken care of by Shopro and TV TOKYO.

    Children are not idiots, remember. Achildren of 8,9,10 years could care about writing, for example.
    Come on now, be real. Casual watchers and young children, the ones that really matter for Pokemon in the long run don't give a care about those things. I've met absolutely not one child that could care about the writing of a cartoon.


    The showe is for promoting, but tnow they are too much focuses in oroimoting for Japan.
    It's always been focused on promoting.

  4. #34
    Yuma Likes Everything! Zexy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.
    There are other Pokemon forums as well :)) And there are people who don't post but still like watching anime/don't like what is going on with Pokemon now.
    Problem is, we still watch it, so we can't change something we are used to.

  5. #35
    Registered User blowsave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.

    Massive, annoying fandom complaints didn't help its reputation either. Best Wishes! is by no means that bad, it has quite a few great episodes, some amusing characters and can be pretty enjoyable if given a chance. Sadly, it's the threads like these that make it seem a lot worse than it actually is.

    What is this, a thread #13898 on what has Best Wishes done wrong? Seriously.
    Not everything needs to be defended. Best Wishes has been a spectacular failure in pretty much every way.

    Not sure what happened, but I don't think it had anything at all to do with the earthquake.

  6. #36
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZexMachine View Post
    There are other Pokemon forums as well :)) And there are people who don't post but still like watching anime/don't like what is going on with Pokemon now.
    Still doesn't matter to the writers.

    Quote Originally Posted by blowsave View Post
    Not everything needs to be defended. Best Wishes has been a spectacular failure in pretty much every way.

    Not sure what happened, but I don't think it had anything at all to do with the earthquake.
    What he's saying and trying to convey is we don't need 20,000 reductive threads for angry fans to cry over Best Wishes! like it's the worst cancer. There are about 26 variations of this same exact thread spread throughout Bulbagarden Anime Department, I think we all know the overall, popular opinion of Best Wishes! by now, the threads are always the same. You're living under a rock otherwise.

    BTW, there's absolutely little to zero defense for Best Wishes!.

  7. #37
    Only 70 new Pokemon? Hoopa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    The writers have stopped caring so much that they just told a fan to stfu when he asked about the new mewtwo.

  8. #38
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talonflame View Post
    The writers have stopped caring so much that they just told a fan to stfu when he asked about the new mewtwo.
    First of all, it was a movie director. Second of all, Adamant(A person who can actually understand Japanese) claims it was an out-of-context scene that was spun out of proportion by fans. Third of all I don't understand why people on this forum are so bent on vilifying the writers as people, but okay.

  9. #39
    zzz YamiiDenryuu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambipom666 View Post
    While Black and White 2 definitely altered plans, I find the idea that the seismic disaster didn't really change much of anything and that Team Plasma was always meant to have their own arc more and more plausible.

    Episode N has so little elements from Black and White 2 (I believe there's only Colress, who could have has easily been worked into the dual third versions as was originally planned [just like Charon], and Team Plasma's new outfits, which are purely aesthetic) that I think it could easily been the original plan for Team Plasma all along.

    I also wouldn't find it surprising if the writers always wanted to do an arc like Da!. They could have easily showcased more locations in Eastern Unova but it seems like they just didn't want to.
    Plasma being openly evil and N wandering around completely separate from them wasn't from B2W2? I mean, yeah, that could have been written based on the first pair if the writers felt like taking a whole buncha liberties that month, but still.

    ... Actually, if I remember correctly, in one of the previews for the two-parter a grunt speaks of their "hero" (presumably N) as though he's a part of their organization, so N's role was quite possibly changed at some point.

  10. #40
    You Are (Not) Fine Winterdaze's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    What happened? They changed things, some of it for the better, some not. Some things went according to plan, others got derailed by no fault of the writers, and some of their plans just weren't so hot from the get go.

    In the end...it's your typical Pokemon anime saga. Just for some reason the negatives resonated really strongly with this particular community this time.

  11. #41
    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by blowsave View Post
    Not everything needs to be defended. Best Wishes has been a spectacular failure in pretty much every way.
    See, that's exactly the sort of statement that gives this saga such a bad reputation when there are quite many good things about it.
    PockyAddict likes this.

  12. #42
    I just divided by 0. Psychotic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blowsave View Post
    Not everything needs to be defended. Best Wishes has been a spectacular failure in pretty much every way.
    See, that's exactly the sort of statement that gives this saga such a bad reputation when there are quite many good things about it.
    His hyperbole is obviously overdone and his statement shows extreme negativity bias and in principle its wrong and in no way do I agree with his position, but I can almost guarantee other people would say the same thing about any region. It's unfair to judge a group as irrational based on the opinions of a vocal minority. That's group attribution error and it's equally wrong.
    Once I find something interesting. I'll put it here.

  13. #43
    Registered User Nymphia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    @Druudigon, with the Dawn's camneo I'm referring of this:
    テレビアニメ | ポケットモンスターオフィシャルサイト

    And this:
    ポケットモンスター ベストウイッシュ シーズン2:あにてれ:テレビ東京

    If you were a children of 7 years, What's the main cast based on what you see?

    Various things:
    That child hasn't playing B2W2 at that time. And if he does, he hasn't got many badges (no, winning the League isn't done by the 99% of the players).
    -Thios child is a normal child who doesn't nown very well events from previous series if the franchise didn't mention them. (It's not checking Bulbapedia).
    -This child doesn't know that Pokemon Contests aren't in the games (what's is this?).

    I put 7 years, but with 6, 8, or 9 the example is still valid.

    The ratings stunt that Sammy27 posted and I added some recent one and removed what isn't a stunt are stunt when you consider it together is a short spam of time.

    That Cynthia is appearing isn't a stunt. The entrire promotion of Season 2 who included Cynthia is a rating stunt for the writers which the main stunt was Dawn. When Dawn left, the stunt was TR leaving promotion. After that, Episode N whgich was very promoted to hype the audience with N and the Charizard return. after that, in the summer, we do a ratings stunt for the movie bringing back Mewtwoi (although is another one), in New York and tied to a short very heavily promoted (smash has been promoting the short for 7 months, the magazine with the manga scans stopped posting tehm to promote the Eevee short .

    In fact, the Eevee short was one of biggest attention rating stunt made for promoting thing made in years.

    It isn't normal.

    Why the anime is "delicated"? Because they are not getting money like they used to be. Why? Because the profit in Japan has been probably lowered and they are not gaining so much money overseas (if not outright losing money).

    And one note: prepare for XY. The Alexa stunt is the start of a big rating stunt. Expect all the weeks information about the new saga of the anime starting from the Meloetta short/Next CoroCoro. And before complain, be prepared for almost everything.

    Edit:

    Fortunately the mvoie hype was done effet for the first weekend and the movie has got 2nd in sales.

    And I think that the ratings stunt are bad at all. It gives attention to the franchise. Better than what happen in the US.
    Last edited by Nymphia; 17th July 2013 at 08:41 AM.
    SammyW27 likes this.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GO, GO, GO, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    I want to start with XY as soon as is possible.

    I have unpopular opinions: I prefer an older character returning but it isn't from the original trio. I was one of the few who liked both DP and BW. And I think that TR shouldn't leave in the anime.

  14. #44
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    That's enough guys. Stop going after people based on their opinions or certain sects of fans, and focus on the topic of the thread.
    It's also not very fair to outright bash a series. You can talk about your feelings with it and back up your views instead of just insulting Best Wishes.
    Hidden Mew likes this.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

  15. #45
    Eternal ComakariShipper dracoflare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    The topic of the thread is What happened to Best Wishes? The title of the topic inherently gives you that the OP has based this thread on an assumption that Best Wishes is not so good, to put it mildly and a not so offensive manner. I think the title of the thread is indirectly insulting Best Wishes, but I digress.

    What do I think happened to Best Wishes? Improper planning.

    I am basing my theory off a few facts that I remember only by memory, but regular posters of Bmgf would have definitely read the interview of Junichi Masuda and how Black 2 White 2 was planned suddenly. I am thinking that this affected the anime's story line, not the earthquake. The earthquake, at the most would have affected the TR two parters that came AFTER the cancelled episodes. The rest of the storyline wasn't affected by the Earthquake at all. So, the rushed and not so good (to say it in a polite manner) League were not a result of the Earthquake.

    Improper showcase of the main character: From the beginning, the main character was showed slightly inferior to his former self. To be honest, I never believe that Ash regressed or fell back in development. He was just improperly presented. The jokes made in the canon on Ash was just an attempt at humor, which people found offensive instead of funny. His team development was neglected. Snivy was stuck with the four moves she had learnt, something that can be viewed as "lack of development." "Growth" was never shown, even if "Growth" was there. We will never know how much Snivy improved by the time the league came or if it had improved at all. The development was left in the air. Scraggy and Axew's story line was broken up. The two little ones that should have grown together, formed some good on screen bond was left with nothing but two episodes of battling. Oshawott was used as a source of comic, and has a bad track record against Fire types.

    There are more. But I will stop here, because these are things we all know. What I am trying to point out is, the main character has been showed much weaker than usual. He necessarily doesn't have to be as weak as we were shown, but I think it's not unfair to judge my what you see. Thus, we can establish the opinion that Best Wishes was not so good in terms of the main character.

    It's sad or it's bad or whatever, but I think most of us watch the show for the main character. If the main character was portrayed as 'weak', then the show will certainly earn negative remarks despite its positive and negatives.

    So, what Best Wishes firstly lacked what was good portrayal of the main character.

    Next, is the concept of Decorola Islands adventure. The concept of having no goal while travelling is alien to me. Despite DP's extensive one year of break between 7th and 8th gym, it never actually had more than 3-4 fillers in a row. Even these fillers had something that contributed to the Pokemon's development. Which is why the concept of Da! doesn't seem as a good idea to me.

    Now why push so many fillers to the end? The Pokemon League was rushed, many interesting and possible rounds were skipped. The only full battle in the saga was "not so good". We had one one-sided-yet-suddenly-turned-to-victory 1 versus 1 battle with the supposed main rival of the region. We had a 3 on 3 battle, that was the only excellent battle in the saga. Then we had the 5 v 6 battle which was indeed "not so good". A Pokemon League is one of the anticipated event for a long term fan of Pokemon. We wait for three years, just to have a glimpse of our main character trying to move forward on his life-time goal. But what we got was a "not so good" performance.

    Had this skipping had a good point, I believe I wouldn't have any reason to complain. But unfortunately, a saga full of adventure in a couple of islands with no aim, character development somehow doesn't sound as a good reason for skipping a tournament.

    Now, I have been talking only about the main character. What about the side characters?

    I liked them, personally. But even if they are the best side main characters in the show, they are still side main characters. The chances of these two characters continuing after the show is less. So, while I enjoy them very much, I don't use them to measure how good the show is. Call me biased, but I am only interested in Ash Ketchum, aka Satoshi, the atsui shonen who has already proven his talent by defeating two legendary Pokemon in a battle, a character who served as an inspiration since I was a kid, a character whom I adored and loved as I grew up and now a character who never grew up.

    These are my feelings, as someone who watched this show for 15 years and will continue to watch at least for the next four.

    I hope what I talked didn't come off as bashing. I like Best Wishes for what it is. I like Iris and her development, and I love her catching a Dragonite despite the unpopular opinion surrounding it. I love Dento, and his antics that always bring me a chuckle. I liked Epsiode N, a 10 episode saga completely focused on a villain plot is certainly a new and wonderful idea. Best Wishes is definitely not a bad saga on its own, but as a continuation to the story of Ash Ketchum, it is.

    Now note that, everything in this post is my opinion.
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    Beyond Truths and Ideals<--Featuring a clash between Ash, N, Team Rocket,Team Plasma and much more.
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