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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    I no longer think it's any use to try to figure out why things happened the way they did. They just did. I really want to just forget all of this happened, but if I've learned from internet critics, it's that you must remember the bad so that the good will be worth that much more. This is definitely a very good portrait of everything that is wrong about the anime and has ever been wrong about the anime. It even adds a new wrinkle in the form of all the nonsense that is the colossal retcons they did. I know I brush off the original saga since it was supposed to be a comedy, but as a comedy, I would prefer the original saga to BW if that was their intention. I'd be more convinced if their intention was mostly happy faffing about, which while it would please the kiddies, it does nothing otherwise. Technically, that should make it worse, but the battles have improved since the original saga, so I had to give it that. This WAS the reason I made DA the absolute worst since it does nothing whatsoever other than waste time. Sorry for the rant, but this is what I'm going to use BW for now. A perfect portrait of everything that has and can go wrong.
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  2. #17
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    The earthquake didn't ruin everything and is not the sole factor to blame on the trainwreck that spoiled Best Wishes. While it was the catalyst for postponing the original the two-parter, most of the blame is thanks to the ridiculously bad ideas the staff had after the incident in order to continue the plot they originaly had intended to.
    I understand the decision of never airing the original two-parter, to be fair I would have done the same in their place and can't really blame them for that. However, there is no justification for scrapping the B1/W1 versions of Team Plasma from the anime altogether, they could have perfectly make another build-up for a future encounter with Team Plasma and go from there. Instead, they decided to completely ignore their existence and proceed with a series of random TR big operations, effetivelly replacing them as villains of the fifth generation until a sequel was released.
    I seriously can't comprehend their "lets remove X element from the anime forever because Y happened that day" modus operandi sometimes. It is not like the colateral damage was an essential part of the plot, they could've perfectly redo the two-parter with less destruction to make it easier for the audience. But no, they were scrapped and the Team Plasma we got was the sequel version, as a rushed afterthought after the league, and only because a sequel was released and they needed padding. Without the storyline from the first installment N ends up as a mostly normal person and Plasma a bunch of generic brutes plotting world domination and the original material had much more potential than that.
    Add to this the removal of Zekrom and Kyurem from the arc, the old Team Plasma being non-existent, and the anticlimatic final showdown Episode N got and you have one the most wasted story arcs ever. The only redeeming factor is Colress' performance, but that alone doesn't save it. This is the main plot of the fifth generation butchered and thrown into a trash can because of a bunch of bad decisions coming from the anime staff.
    Of course, it doesn't harm Ash's usual badge and league quests in any way, but everyone knows it is just the excuse plot of the games as TvTropes would say and I care about what happens in-between this stuff. Then we have the rivals, the sheer amount of competitors Ash had this generation seriously weakened their credibility since the writers didn't have time to develop all rivals leaving most of them wasted, underdeveloped and sometimes unfinished.
    Best Wishes had a huge potential, it seems a great idea in the paper, but they didn't know how to execute it and an unfortunate incident coupled with a bunch of bad writing and decisions turned it into an ever-growing snowball rolling downhill.
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  3. #18
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    The sequels happened. Gamefreak has admitted that they only decided to make B2W2 a continuation of BW's story rather than a rehash about three or four months before the games launched. Given that episodes start production about six months before being aired and are in planning for who knows how long before that, the anime producers would've been well underway with the first arc of the BW anime, the one that leads up to Plasma's debut. They probably had just enough time to tweak the ending so Plasma lost and went away for a while so they could rewrite their later plots to account for the sequels. Hence the large block of filler in what is otherwise a fairly fast-paced series.

    ... And then the earthquake happened and probably screwed up whatever future plans they had at that point. Thus BW had to be rewritten twice. Obviously this saga is cursed. :P There's no way of telling if Plasma was supposed to appear again later on in the main saga or if they were pushed to after the league as a purely B2W2-based plot, since that filler chunk fortuitously gave the anime team just enough time to redo everything starting with about the Nimbasa gym episodes.

    That's my theory, anyway.
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.
    I think that this mainly sums up BW as whole for me pretty well. It had a lot of good/decent ideas, but most of them suffered from such terrible executions, which is rather a shame. With just a few changes here and there, BW could have been so much better than it actually turned out. It does have some good episodes and elements still within it, but for me, the bad/problematic aspects of the series outnumbers the good.

    I also really doubt that the earthquake affected their plans with Team Plasma. There wasn't any indication that Team Plasma was going to play a big role in the series. They didn't appear or were mentioned in the batch of episodes shortly after the two-parter was suppose to air, so it seems pretty unlikely that they were going to appear any time soon after that two-parter was suppose to air. If anything, the sequels affected them appearing earlier since making those games sequels was a last minute decision and making a Neo-Team Plasma ruined the chances of having regular Team Plasma appearing, especially when a time gap would have been necessary to have Neo Team Plasma appearing.
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  5. #20
    Registered User Codface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    BW was a mess everyone hated some part of it. From Ashs brain fart and regression, two companions with no set goal, only unova pokemon featured bar pika/meowth, arc being terribly paced, the league being awful, terrible rival, inconsistant personality of team rocket, lack of pokemon development, Iris and her such a kid chanting and two very average movies.

    Ofc it had some good bits. Episode N works as did the meloetta story line. The subway Team Rocket episodes were ok too.

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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    I'm a bit wigi on the whole Best Wishes issue. I like some of the choices they made... and detested others.

    I loved the idea of Ash catching more than five or six pokemon and was hoping for him to have two full teams of six pokemon by the time he made it to the league all the while rotating his pokemon constantly to help them get past their own individual problems, which would have been awesome... but they pretty much just had him using Pikachu, the starters, and Scraggy with a rotating sixth member being chosen among Boldore, Krookodile, Palpitoad, Leavanny, and Unfeazant.

    I liked the idea of Team Rocket being more threatening and evolving into more mature villains... but the execution was poor.

    I loved the exposure of rivals and the fact that some even traveled with him a bit... but it became overdone.

    Basically Best Wishes is a mixed bag... of Bernie Botts Beans.

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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Palpitoad the White View Post
    But there are more forums for pokemon. Serebii for example. There are more angry english speaking nerds than us on Bulbagarden. And that must be more than 0,000001 %.
    Basically:

    The fandom = Grain of sand.
    The target audience and casual watchers = Bowling Ball
    But do you think that the target audience is happy with BW?
    I know all your secrets!

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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    I still believe that the Earthquake caused the wreck. Team Plasma did not appear, Team Rocket had to get the 4 2-parters as primary antagonists instead of Plasma's sidekicks.
    Episodes were killed and to make space for all of this, they made up 2 Don Tournaments so that the Gym gaps didn't feel rushed.

    By the very end, since the series was messed up already, they turned to promotion and marketing (I don't think the anime team had problems with this, since everything was almost crippled by then). A N arc after all this time was a nice idea, but they didn't have enough ideas, so it got rushed and a filler region was made out of it (which conveniently lets them promote Gen VI).

    That's that. All seasons but Hoenn had major flaws, let's hope that Kalos will go better.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post
    For starters, they should've had the rules changed to where Ash needed 10 badges to enter the League.
    Just no, Kalos may not get sequels and the Gyms there might become 8 again. Status Quo is God.

    Speaking of the World Tournament, they should've given it an arc to kill time while brining back old characters and Pokémon aplenty. Would've beaten the heck out of the slog that was Junior Cup and even that sorry excuse for a League.
    It would hinder Generation 6 promotion.

    Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident, but still had decent writing and good moments. Johto was messed up by the GS Herring, but was able to get its groove back in grand fashion (IMHO). Isshu? Things just got out of hand and the producers eventually decided to half ass it and move on...
    Sinnoh and its year-long Gym Gap?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The sequels happened. Gamefreak has admitted that they only decided to make B2W2 a continuation of BW's story rather than a rehash about three or four months before the games launched. Given that episodes start production about six months before being aired and are in planning for who knows how long before that, the anime producers would've been well underway with the first arc of the BW anime, the one that leads up to Plasma's debut. They probably had just enough time to tweak the ending so Plasma lost and went away for a while so they could rewrite their later plots to account for the sequels. Hence the large block of filler in what is otherwise a fairly fast-paced series.
    I think that they learned about it around the time the first Don Tournament happened. They have released some fillers, thinking of what should happen now that Plasma is gone. And POP! there is also a time limit before we end the Gym Quest and move on to B2W2 promotion :))
    In every case, BW suffered from these two things.
    Last edited by Zexy; 16th July 2013 at 07:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZexMachine View Post
    By the very end, since the series was messed up already, they turned to promotion and marketing
    They turned to promotion and marketing? No, this anime has always been about promoting the games and merchandise. Remember the shameless HG/SS promotion/anime arc during DP?

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    I was wondering when this issue would arise. I cannot provide good data, but not that long ago, my own nephews saw BW for the first time in their lives. NOT INTERESTED. AT ALL. I consider this to be unfair data since they were raised on the culture of app gaming. (their favorite is Angry Birds) For reference, they are 7 and 5, so they would be within the best chance of being interested at all. The other cartoons I know they like? Phineas and Ferb is one that I am sure of. When they are here, I only observe they pay attention to Johnny Quest and Ben Ten. I do not know their little friends well enough to know if any of them even know what Pokemon is.
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Sigh... BW have things that many likes, some others dislikes and everybody agrees it divides opinions of what was good and what not. I'm definetly not a huge BW fan, and I don't pretend to disrepect the author's thread, but, I'm freaking tired of some threads that end with discussion about BW be the worst arc, the best arc, the I-don't-give-a-crap arc, even now that we are from, what, three months from the XY arc.

    My final opinion (at risk of earning a warning myself): Some persons like BW, some doesn't (myself included) and some just understand that is and always will be a game promoting anime with marketing focus on little children and go on. Best solution? Learn how to draw, turn yourself into a mangaka or something that nature, create your own fully faithful and loyal version of what should be THE Pokemon series with Ash & co.'s ending and be happy in your personal canon (In some way, that's my own goal to some other series). Period.
    Last edited by Duque; 16th July 2013 at 05:43 PM.
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    Man, when you stop to think of it DP did have some crap in it. Its just that when people think about DP, they only remember Paul, Pokehunter J/Galactic and all the Gyms and Contests episodes....basically the good parts.
    And... there are actually a lot of BW episodes that have pissed me off. By this point it'd be easier to just list the ones that I can stand to watch. The more the series progresses, the more the writing of these episodes piss me off.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palpitoad the White View Post
    But do you think that the target audience is happy with BW?
    Yeah, given five-year-olds probably could care less about things like character development, pacing, etc. They're just watching the show to see cute monsters fight each other.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZexMachine View Post
    By the very end, since the series was messed up already, they turned to promotion and marketing
    They turned to promotion and marketing? No, this anime has always been about promoting the games and merchandise. Remember the shameless HG/SS promotion/anime arc during DP?
    That was 6 episodes. Not 24 of them, with a new opening and season title. After all, if they had timed DP a bit better, there would have been a Johto Battle Frontier...

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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZexMachine View Post
    That was 6 episodes. Not 24 of them, with a new opening and season title. After all, if they had timed DP a bit better, there would have been a Johto Battle Frontier...
    This show has always been about promoting and marketing, nothing turned into a marketing show. Is this one of those "It's okay for DP but not BW" replies?



    Just to be clear, I liked BW(Except for the League arc. and a few gym battles) a lot up until Da! (Very hit-and-miss and TR being incompetent.)
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 16th July 2013 at 11:30 AM.

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    Registered User Ambipom666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    While Black and White 2 definitely altered plans, I find the idea that the seismic disaster didn't really change much of anything and that Team Plasma was always meant to have their own arc more and more plausible.

    Episode N has so little elements from Black and White 2 (I believe there's only Colress, who could have has easily been worked into the dual third versions as was originally planned [just like Charon], and Team Plasma's new outfits, which are purely aesthetic) that I think it could easily been the original plan for Team Plasma all along.

    I also wouldn't find it surprising if the writers always wanted to do an arc like Da!. They could have easily showcased more locations in Eastern Unova but it seems like they just didn't want to.
    Hidden Mew and PockyAddict like this.
    Kanto's Route 23 doesn't exist in the Johto games!


    My ideas for a more game-faithful Best Wishes! series.

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