Best Wishes - what happened?

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    Registered User SlimeStack's Avatar
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    Default Best Wishes - what happened?

    People like to say earthquakes, but that can't be true. :P

    Looking at the placement of the gym episodes, Iris & Drayden episode, the Pokémon League and Episode N, I think several things are actually hastily altered Black & White 1 stories.

    Ash gets his 8th badge about 3 episodes after his 7th, so it's quite obvious to me that the abrupt Virbank City detour was thrown on top of the original Best Wishes plan late enough. If you remove this badge, perhaps moving Iris' episode forward a little bit as a result, Ash could have been challenging Drayden after a decently paced gap. Challenging a gym leader twice or having two characters take on a gym leader is nothing new to the show, so turning Opelucid into a two episode stop would have worked fine.

    The Pokémon League could easily have always been planned to air around the point that it did. Isn't it a bit convenient that N and Neo Plasma are introduced immediately after? What if the original plan was for N to interrupt the league like in BW and bring back the original Plasma team for the first time since the Meteonite arc? Airing the missing episodes or just altering it to make it their first appearance would have worked fine in terms of the earthquakes. The fact that parts of BW1's story with N, Reshiram and Dragonspiral Tower made it into Episode N makes it seem like it's altered from the original overall series plan.

    In terms of Team Rocket, aside from maybe some mention of Plasma or the Meteonite to connect the Meteonite and two Kami trio arcs together, I feel like nothing really changed with them. Maybe they would have involved themselves in the original N plot like they did in the one we got, but that's it. The World Tournament Junior Cup could have easily been a Don Tournament. In fact it pretty much was a Don Tournament with a couple of bells and whistles to promote B2W2.

    As for Decolora Adventure? They could have easily used Eastern Unova, White Forest and Black City for a filler arc since Best Wishes was always meant to be faster paced and shorter than DP as far as I remember. But since they used it all up for the Black 2 and White 2 promotion, the Decolora Archipelago was born.

    What do people think?

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    Bow before me, bitches! SammyW27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    It's clear that at some point the producers just plain gave up on making BW as good as it could be and just decided just to kill time and pander to fans while promoting new/upcoming games. The Seismic Disaster might've played a big part, but there's more to it. The Sequel Games, Gen 5's shortness and some last minute Gen 6 promoting were thrown into the mix and BW ended up being one of the worst sagas ever (THE Worst )

    The most tragic part? It really didn't have to be

    Even with Team Plasma banned, there's no excuse for such terrible, terrible writing all around. I see no reason why they couldn't have carried on without TP, promoted B2W2 & Gen 6 and STILL have made much better episodes.

    For starters, they should've had the rules changed to where Ash needed 10 badges to enter the League. That way they still could've promoted the new games with Homika and Marlon (with Homika getting a better battle) with Drayden still being last (maybe using some his Pokémon from the World Tournament to be more of a challenge) so they could have a storyline to work with. All at a better pace, of course.

    Speaking of the World Tournament, they should've given it an arc to kill time while brining back old characters and Pokémon aplenty. Would've beaten the heck out of the slog that was Junior Cup and even that sorry excuse for a League.

    Ash didn't have to be an idiot who won through dumb luck and deus ex machinas, Iris didn't need to hog the spotlight with an overpowered Dragonite & her problems magically solving themselves, and Cilan could've been more useful and less annoying. Kotty and Virgil could've shown up earlier and more to have better build up and more depth aside from being grotesquely stupid and infallible, respectively. There's certainly no reason for such a terrible, terrible League (a filler episode right in the middle of it? Really?!)

    Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident, but still had decent writing and good moments. Johto was messed up by the GS Herring, but was able to get its groove back in grand fashion (IMHO). Isshu? Things just got out of hand and the producers eventually decided to half ass it and move on...
    Last edited by SammyW27; 16th July 2013 at 02:48 PM.
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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.

    Massive, annoying fandom complaints didn't help its reputation either. Best Wishes! is by no means that bad, it has quite a few great episodes, some amusing characters and can be pretty enjoyable if given a chance. Sadly, it's the threads like these that make it seem a lot worse than it actually is.

    What is this, a thread #13898 on what has Best Wishes done wrong? Seriously.

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    I am sneaking at you! Spypitoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    I actually like BW pretty much. It was bad that the league was rushed and Ashs loss to Cameron. And no Virgil battle. And rotation was terribly executed. Junior Cup too. But it is not more worse than that.
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    Registered User SlimeStack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.

    Massive, annoying fandom complaints didn't help its reputation either. Best Wishes! is by no means that bad, it has quite a few great episodes, some amusing characters and can be pretty enjoyable if given a chance. Sadly, it's the threads like these that make it seem a lot worse than it actually is.

    What is this, a thread #13898 on what has Best Wishes done wrong? Seriously.
    Where on earth is this all coming from? There isn't a single piece of criticism in my post. This is not a bashing topic. I'm pointing out that the decision to end gen V with sequels instead of a 3rd version had an impact on where the story went after the 7th badge. The way certain events are positioned makes it look like there was originally a plan for the expected Black & White story coverage, and that those events were redressed to work with Black 2 and White 2 instead, which as a result gives us a slightly different story.
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post
    It's clear that at some point the producers just plain gave up on making BW as good as it could be and just decided just to kill time and pander to fans while promoting new/upcoming games.
    Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.

    Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,
    That's not even funny.
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 15th July 2013 at 12:36 PM.

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    East Unova Resident SuperTrainStationH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    ...

    Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,
    That's not even funny.
    In no way was he making light of or making fun of the seizure incident in saying that.

    Even so, the permanent global banning of the seizure episode had no effect on Kanto's writing or plot progression. Not only did the episode actually air, but it was a character of the day story that had such little impact on the plot that its withdrawal had no impact on the storyline.

    This is in stark contrast to "Rocket Vs. Plasma", which was quite likely one of the biggest and most hyped story arcs in the history of the Pokémon anime and the axis of the promotional materials leading up to the debut of the Pokémon Black & White based anime series, whose removal may have impacted what the writers were planning for the Best Wishes overall plot in more ways than the public will ever know.
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.

    Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,
    That's not even funny.
    But there are more forums for pokemon. Serebii for example. There are more angry english speaking nerds than us on Bulbagarden. And that must be more than 0,000001 %.
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    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palpitoad the White View Post
    But there are more forums for pokemon. Serebii for example. There are more angry english speaking nerds than us on Bulbagarden. And that must be more than 0,000001 %.
    Basically:

    The fandom = Grain of sand.
    The target audience and casual watchers = Bowling Ball

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    Bow before me, bitches! SammyW27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,
    That's not even funny.
    Wasn't supposed to be. That's a cold harsh fact. Or at least I thought so.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTrainStationH View Post
    Even so, the permanent global banning of the seizure episode had no effect on Kanto's writing or plot progression. Not only did the episode actually air, but it was a character of the day story that had such little impact on the plot that its withdrawal had no impact on the storyline.
    Funny, I thought that hiatus had a bad effect on their over all intentions, like how Kanto was originally supposed to last a year and a half or how Movie 1 was suppose to tie into the show tighter and even be the grand finale. Though I could've misread/misinterpreted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.
    I'm not talking about us on this forum. I'm talking about in general. Kinda hard to miss.

    They pointlessly bought back Dawn out of desperation. They bought back Cynthia (sure she's in the games, but it still feels a little suspicious). They had Giovanni step up to bat (I know that was intended from the TPvTR 2 parter, but still). They bought back the Evee Family and went out of their way to have Lucario appear. It almost felt like N and Team Plasma were bought in to appease fans. They randomly bought back Charizard. We've had two episodes with Kanto flashbacks & shout outs, and the upcoming Lapras episode will likely have an Orange Island flashback, I shouldn't wonder. The Decolora Archipelago is infested with Pokémon from previous generations. Oak's been popped for a while (even reviving that Muk running gag while they're at it) and got an episode. We're getting a Claire episode. The TRio is back to being the Bungle Brigade. We may or may not have appearances by Delia and Tracey near the end. There's even the DA ending, with its many cameos by characters past.

    If that isn't pandering, it sure feels like it!
    Last edited by SammyW27; 15th July 2013 at 02:49 PM.
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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimeStack View Post
    Where on earth is this all coming from? There isn't a single piece of criticism in my post. This is not a bashing topic. I'm pointing out that the decision to end gen V with sequels instead of a 3rd version had an impact on where the story went after the 7th badge. The way certain events are positioned makes it look like there was originally a plan for the expected Black & White story coverage, and that those events were redressed to work with Black 2 and White 2 instead, which as a result gives us a slightly different story.
    I apologize, I just feel like this thread will turn into another one of those threads where people will comment on what Best Wishes should have done, how much it messed up, etc. I know it's not your intention, sorry for reacting the way I did. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimeStack View Post
    If you remove this badge, perhaps moving Iris' episode forward a little bit as a result, Ash could have been challenging Drayden after a decently paced gap. Challenging a gym leader twice or having two characters take on a gym leader is nothing new to the show, so turning Opelucid into a two episode stop would have worked fine.
    Well, we know that Ash was going to challenge Drayden because one of his earlier badge cases had indentations for Drayden's badge, but as of later episodes, those simply because empty round spots. Personally I liked this change since it gave Iris the chance to have Drayden for her own story arc while at the same time allowing Ash to battle Roxie as an introduction into season 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimeStack View Post
    What if the original plan was for N to interrupt the league like in BW and bring back the original Plasma team for the first time since the Meteonite arc?
    Actually, in the trailer for TR VS TP, one of the Plasma grunts made a reference to their 'hero' (I assume he meant N) for whom they were trying to get the Meteonite, I believe. So, I guess it IS possible that N was going to appear later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimeStack View Post
    In terms of Team Rocket, aside from maybe some mention of Plasma or the Meteonite to connect the Meteonite and two Kami trio arcs together, I feel like nothing really changed with them.
    Agreed. I feel like they had many random, unconnected missions that had nothing to do with the main plot whatsoever. If the two-parter wasn't banned, I wonder if they'd have a prolonged conflict with Team Plasma.

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    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post
    They pointlessly bought back Dawn out of desperation.
    Every Pokegirl comes every saga.
    They bought back Cynthia (though at least she did something).
    Because she appears in Undella Town in BW2, where is her villa? In Undella Town in the anime, the place where Ash and gang stay during the WTJC.
    They had Giovanni step up to bat (I know that was intended from the TPvTR 2 parter, but still).
    Team Rocket were the main villains of BW, of course he's going to appear.
    N and Team Plasma were most likely bought in to appease fans.
    The writers aren't . We aren't even on their radar, they really could not give a damn about what we have to say honestly.
    They randomly bought back Charizard.
    Marketing. They brought back the Johto Starters in DP for HGSS and a slew of other Pokemon.
    We've had two episodes with Kanto flashbacks & shout outs, and the upcoming Lapras episode will likely have an Orange Island flashback, I shouldn't wonder.
    There was literally five seconds of flashback in the Butterfree episode and the Charizard episode was flashback, that was it. That doesn't equate to "appeasing" fans. For the record the Charizard and Butterfree episode ratings were not anymore special than any other episode's ratings, literally the same thing as usual. The fandom doesn't impact ratings because it's not accounted for and the "fandom" isn't as gigantic as you think the writers aren't doing these things to please us. What you view as subjective pandering is not, that is absolute.

    The Decolora Archipelago is infested with Pokémon from previous generations.
    Older Pokemon are appearing again because there's no need to have them absent from the show anymore.
    Oak's been popping up a fair bit lately and got an episode (even reviving that Muk running gag while they're at it).
    Oak appeared in DP and AG a few times as well.
    We're getting a Claire episode.
    That's not "appeasing" older fans.
    The TRio is back to being the Bungle Brigade.
    Not because of older fans, more likely because of their VA and the success of their radio show.

    We may or may not have appearances by Delia and Tracey near the end. And even the DA ending, with its many cameos by characters past.
    Nothing but speculation and even then we get appearances by them in nearly every series, Delia appeared in the beginning of BW.

    If that isn't pandering, it sure feels like it!
    \"It feels like it!" does not make it fact, it's okay to not like BW, but I wish fans on this forum would get their facts straight and wouldn't make misstatements about the show just because they don't like it if you're so adamant about making any old comment about the technical viewpoints of the show it should at least be accurate and hold some water.
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 15th July 2013 at 02:51 PM.

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    Proud Pokeservative! 97SaturnSL1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Druddigon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Palpitoad the White View Post
    But there are more forums for pokemon. Serebii for example. There are more angry english speaking nerds than us on Bulbagarden. And that must be more than 0,000001 %.
    Basically: The fandom = Grain of sand.
    The target audience and casual watchers = A Bowling Ball

    More like

    The fandom = Grain of sand.
    The target audience and casual watchers = A 1977 Cadillac Eldorado

    Not all of BW was bad. you had the duckletts who were funny, you did have meowth go onto the good side for a little bit. there were the moments with the COTDs that made you want to scream and shout especially N ending the Mother-in-law of all battles but not the entiretywas bad. such as Excadrill and the boat incicdent in DA

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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.
    This is basically it. I agree with this and a lot of other. I think that the Gen's shortness had a lot to do with the rushed pace of the later anime. Due to black 2 and white 2 being released.

    People like to say earthquakes, but that can't be true. :P
    I also don't think the earthquake is the case either, considering they most likely prob were done and were working on a bunch of episodes for prob (it takes a long time to write,storyboard, animate and voice cartoons) either the next 6 months. And team plasma don't make appearances in other episodes either.
    Last edited by PockyAddict; 15th July 2013 at 07:11 PM.
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    Registered User Darth Darkrai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes - what happened?

    I think as some people here have said"It Is A Really Bd Train Wreck" which I kind of agree with and not all of the Episodes this Saga have been great and Most of them to Me have Greatin my Own Opinion.

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