Ash and his counterparts!

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  1. #1
    Registered User Red of Pallet's Avatar
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    Question Ash and his counterparts!

    What I just realized was, ALL of Ash's counter partners are Pokémon masters, and Ash is by far the worst. So why is it that Ash is the most popular one?
    I like a loser as much as the next guy, but maybe ash should actually win a league for once! (Orange League doesn't count)

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    本物の神様 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default re: Ash and his counterparts!

    None of Satoshi's cross-canon counterparts are "Pokemon Masters". Maybe you can argue that Game Red is (and maybe Zensho Satoshi), but Special Red, Isamu, Shuu, Dengeki Satoshi, etc. are definitely not Pokemon Masters.

    As far as fandom goes, Isamu, Game Red and Special Red are at least as popular as Satoshi is. At the very least, they're as "well-known". Game Red's counterparts got a head start because the Generation I protagonist wasn't named, was just a game avatar, and not known to be a "badass silent character" until Generation II came around (before that he was just a self-insert/silent Nintendo protagonist), but you can't deny that he's very well-liked in the fandom, especially now that the fandom knows how to differentiate canon (albeit in very idiotic ways sometimes).

    To be perfectly honest, I thought Satoshi was a *good* Red-based character until they decided to simplify and (much later) derail his personality for the sake of an ongoing anime (and really, really dropped the ball when Best Wishes rolled around).
    Last edited by FANG-TAN; 3rd July 2013 at 04:23 PM.

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  3. #3
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default re: Ash and his counterparts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red of Pallet View Post
    What I just realized was, ALL of Ash's counter partners are Pokémon masters, and Ash is by far the worst. So why is it that Ash is the most popular one?
    I like a loser as much as the next guy, but maybe ash should actually win a league for once! (Orange League doesn't count)
    Why doesn't the Orange Islands League count? I know that it was an anime only League, as opposed to a League based on a region from the video games, but it's still a League and Ash defeated its champion. That should count for something. Plus, I still think that winning the Battle Frontier is more impressive than a League because how of few trainers even get offered to compete in it.

    Anyway, like FANG-TAN mentioned, not of the Ash counterparts are Pokemon Masters. One could make a good argument that some of them are stronger than Ash, like maybe video game Red and Adventures Red, but none of them would really qualify as Masters. Video game Red and maybe Adventures Red are close to Ash's popularity and probably more so among older fans who are more into the video games and Adventures series than the anime series. Ash has more mainstream attention due to how long the anime has been going and the fact that he's the main character.
    Shiny Blaze and FANG-TAN like this.

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    本物の神様 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default re: Ash and his counterparts!

    Yuuji was the Head Leader, not the Champion of the Orange League, but yeah, the Orange League should totally count as a real league in terms of the anime. And in my opinion, Satoshi's performance was awesome during that battle - in my book, it counts as a significant accomplishment.

    As for the Battle Frontier... two of the Brains used friggin' legendaries. Definitely a step up from Gym and typical League Battles in the anime (let's... forget about that Darkrai trainer, please...).

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    NCIS Special Agent DracoMan's Avatar
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    Default re: Ash and his counterparts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Red of Pallet View Post
    What I just realized was, ALL of Ash's counter partners are Pokémon masters, and Ash is by far the worst. So why is it that Ash is the most popular one?
    I like a loser as much as the next guy, but maybe ash should actually win a league for once! (Orange League doesn't count)
    Why doesn't the Orange Islands League count? I know that it was an anime only League, as opposed to a League based on a region from the video games, but it's still a League and Ash defeated its champion. That should count for something. Plus, I still think that winning the Battle Frontier is more impressive than a League because how of few trainers even get offered to compete in it.


    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    Yuuji was the Head Leader, not the Champion of the Orange League, but yeah, the Orange League should totally count as a real league in terms of the anime. And in my opinion, Satoshi's performance was awesome during that battle - in my book, it counts as a significant accomplishment.
    I think the reason not everyone considers the Orange League as being on the same level as the Indigo/Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh/Unova Leagues (myself included) is that the requirements are much simpler. In Orange, a trainer only needs to face four gym leaders before battling the head honcho; all the other leagues have eight gyms required, followed by a full-scale tournament of over a hundred challengers, and only the winner of all that can face the elites. Compared to the big regions, Orange is pretty much minor league.
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    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default re: Ash and his counterparts!

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoMan View Post
    I think the reason not everyone considers the Orange League as being on the same level as the Indigo/Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh/Unova Leagues (myself included) is that the requirements are much simpler. In Orange, a trainer only needs to face four gym leaders before battling the head honcho; all the other leagues have eight gyms required, followed by a full-scale tournament of over a hundred challengers, and only the winner of all that can face the elites. Compared to the big regions, Orange is pretty much minor league.
    I agree that the requirements to get into the Orange Islands League is easier since you only go to four Gyms instead of eight and you don't battle a bunch of other trainers. I'm not sure if I'd consider the Orange Islands League a minor one. Wasn't Drake practically undefeated or was that just added in the dub? Still, Ash did really well in that battle, especially when this was his first full battle if I recall correctly, and it was still a major accomplishments. Even with the requirements being easier, it doesn't really change the fact that the Orange Islands League was a League. It might not be as impressive as winning a regional League and it definitely isn't as impressive as defeating the Battle Frontier, but it was a League and shouldn't be disregarded in my opinion.

  7. #7
    本物の神様 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default re: Ash and his counterparts!

    Yuuji was bored because there wasn't a challenger worthy of him until Satoshi came around in the Japanese version. So yeah, it was the same deal.

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    NCIS Special Agent DracoMan's Avatar
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    Default re: Ash and his counterparts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DracoMan View Post
    I think the reason not everyone considers the Orange League as being on the same level as the Indigo/Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh/Unova Leagues (myself included) is that the requirements are much simpler. In Orange, a trainer only needs to face four gym leaders before battling the head honcho; all the other leagues have eight gyms required, followed by a full-scale tournament of over a hundred challengers, and only the winner of all that can face the elites. Compared to the big regions, Orange is pretty much minor league.
    I agree that the requirements to get into the Orange Islands League is easier since you only go to four Gyms instead of eight and you don't battle a bunch of other trainers. I'm not sure if I'd consider the Orange Islands League a minor one. Wasn't Drake practically undefeated or was that just added in the dub? Still, Ash did really well in that battle, especially when this was his first full battle if I recall correctly, and it was still a major accomplishments. Even with the requirements being easier, it doesn't really change the fact that the Orange Islands League was a League. It might not be as impressive as winning a regional League and it definitely isn't as impressive as defeating the Battle Frontier, but it was a League and shouldn't be disregarded in my opinion.
    I'm not saying it should be entirely disregarded. I just don't think it should be held up to the same level as the others, however impressive it may have been for Ash to win.
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    The original color of your carpet is an unsolved mystery.
    You've had more court dates than second dates.
    The closest you've come to royalty is eating at Burger King.
    You've ever stared at a carton of orange juice because it said "concentrate."
    You think a quarterhorse is that ride in front of K-Mart.

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