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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    One of the expositions lost to western viewers is the fact that Mewtwo believed that he was a Pokemon that was unable to shed tears because he was unable to feel pain or sadness, because he was created the strongest, and during his time living he never shed one (his internal monologue in the CD Drama, after blowing up Rocket Gang's base and forgot how he shed tears for Aitwo when she died). Along with the fact that "human beings are the strongest existence" was hammered into his head by Sakaki, Mewtwo felt the clones, as Pokemon, lacked the ability to shed tears. And, if the real Pokemon somehow could, then surely the copies wouldn't, since they couldn't shed tears from pain alone because they were created stronger than the originals. Obviously, Mewtwo felt wrath in the film, but the main point was the idea of "Pokemon not being able to shed tears from sadness".

    I should also note that the original scenes from the film didn't have Nyaasu do the emotional anti-war spiel. It just has both of the Nyaasu prepare to fight, then talk about how each other's claws probably hurt, and then go on to talk about the roundness of the moon (which is a reference to this).
    It still doesn't hide the fact that as interesting as the idea is, its execution is kind of overblown (not helped that the 4Kids dub made it much, much worse). If it was just Ash's Pokémon that cried him back to life, the cheese factor would still be there, but at least it would be slightly more tolerable. Instead you have the entire army of clones and originals (barring Mew and Mewtwo) doing it. I understand what they were trying to do, I just can't see it working without looking silly.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Quote Originally Posted by KingMan View Post
    It still doesn't hide the fact that as interesting as the idea is, its execution is kind of overblown (not helped that the 4Kids dub made it much, much worse). If it was just Ash's Pokémon that cried him back to life, the cheese factor would still be there, but at least it would be slightly more tolerable. Instead you have the entire army of clones and originals (barring Mew and Mewtwo) doing it. I understand what they were trying to do, I just can't see it working without looking silly.
    I could understand that. However, it's subjective - I thought the original version, where the "music" was just plain silence and the only sound effect being played were the tears and the Pokemon mourning, made the scene seem a lot more "mysterious and magical" (akin to how the early Pokemon anime world, especially in the films, was portrayed) than silly. In terms of execution, I thought it was done decently, especially since it didn't have such melodramatic music playing in the background (and, in turn, makes it feel less melodramatic). And in terms of scale, I felt that the believable part of the Pokemon/copies crying for Satoshi was the fact that a human child of all things tried to stop their fight, and his petrification was caused by their strife. But perhaps if this arc was spread into several episodes like the TV Special rather than a film, they might have done it better?

    I can see why some people might think its silly, but I personally really can't see why anyone would hate the scene unless they've only ever watched the dub. To me, that was one of my favorite Satoshi-related scenes.

    (Still, better reasons to dislike that, than dislike Satoshi for getting turned into a ghost in the Natsume arc which was out of his control...)
    Last edited by FANG-TAN; 6th July 2013 at 02:52 PM.

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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post

    ...How was that his fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by GWrando View Post
    Its more of a scene I hate from Pokémon than a scene that makes me hate Ash... though it is a scene that heavily features Ash and thus it could be said that it is a scene with Ash that I hate.
    I dont know....
    I just look at some new ones, and found a new least favorite,the first episode of johto, WHY DIDNT YOU CATCH THE SUICUNE????

    The "Tears of Pokémon bringing Ash back to life" of Pokémon the First Movie.

    As a person who was in high school when Pokémon came out, I had the displeasure of having watched Care Bears 2 as a child. I didn't like the ending when they used it for Care Bears 2, where in which the wishes of the Care Bears brought a girl back to life, I don't like it in Pokémon the First Movie. It is the same freaking thing... they end the same freaking way.

    At least they didn't have one of the characters turn to the screen and ask the audience to wish him back to life in Pokemon though...

    When will writers learn that ending doesn't work... pulling things like that out just kills a movie...
    Satoshi didn't die. He was turned to stone.

    The point of the scene was to showcase that the real Pokemon and copies were equally capable of showing the same amount of sorrow as every other living being in the world (earlier in the film, Ai tells Mewtwo that her dad told her only humans cried when they were sad, implying it was commonly believed that Pokemon didn't cry unless they felt physical pain), and those mysterious tears of sadness cured Satoshi of his petrification; their tears of sadness, which were thought to not exist, created a miracle. The scene's purpose was 1) to show Mewtwo that all living beings are alive in the same way and didn't need to drive each other out with power, whether they were humans, Pokemon, or copies and 2) to make Satoshi look awesome for putting his well-being on the line for the sake of stopping the cruelty, an ending where the main character both wins and loses, which the head writer liked.

    While it may seem like a "Disney Death" (especially in the dub where Ash Ketchum DOES die), Takeshi Shudo knew what he was doing when writing that scene, and didn't intend it as an asspull.
    New most hated episode, OMG I HATE THE MASTERMIND OF MIRAGE POKEMON!!!!!(actually just the professor guy)
    "That pokemon is a flawed specimen" WELL SO IS YOUR MEWTWO!!!!!!
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post

    ... However, it's subjective - I thought the original version, where the "music" was just plain silence and the only sound effect being played were the tears and the Pokemon mourning, made the scene seem a lot more "mysterious and magical" (akin to how the early Pokemon anime world, especially in the films, was portrayed) than silly. ...
    Was that in the original Japanese version? If so, that sounds like a nice atmospheric touch.

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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Quote Originally Posted by KingMan View Post
    Was that in the original Japanese version? If so, that sounds like a nice atmospheric touch.
    Somewhat, while the beginning part of "Miracle Tears" played in the background, it was a really soft, mysterious, and magical melody that didn't overpower the Pokemon mourning or the sound of the tears at all. I thought it was a good example of "silence is golden" (or, something close to it) and how adding more conspicuous and dramatic music can ruin an otherwise good scene.

    Every second leading up to that scene (all the Pokemon down for the count, Satoshi's sacrifice, etc.), is also silent.
    Last edited by FANG-TAN; 6th July 2013 at 08:17 PM.

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  6. #36
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    I wouldn't necessarily say that I hate ash, but some of the things during the Original Series, I would smack him over the head for. The biggest I think was the Indigo Pleatau. You would think Ash would have taken the time to take some time off to train his pokemon to be in tip top shape for the biggest match of his life up to that moment, but from the episodes we saw, he would always put it off to go off on a side adventure. I can see why he barely won his matches and lost with charizard...

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    I don't know if any episode had ever made me hate Ash. I do know that some episodes turn out to make him annoying and clueless. And most of those were in the OS series.

    -I'd say most/all kanto gym battles
    -Team Rocket situations
    -Pokémon encounters, mostly with wild pokemon
    -Legendary encounters. Mostly throughout the entire series

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    I've never hated Ash. He's not really a hateable character to me, and reversions to his "progression" don't bother me since I don't care if he becomes a Pokemon master or not. I was mildly annoyed by him during the Elesa gym battle and stealing May's spotlight in the Manaphy movie, but that's about it.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    I did not like it when he got pissed off at Gligar when it was being a coward and too afraid to fight his Pokemon and i thought he was a little to hard on him and I really did not like that.
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Yeah, I got pissed with his treatment over gligar/gliscor. The poor thing had almost zero victories and was barely trained under Ash's ownership. Well, at least, gliscor got a better treatment than staraptor, I think.
    Man, when you stop to think of it DP did have some crap in it. Its just that when people think about DP, they only remember Paul, Pokehunter J/Galactic and all the Gyms and Contests episodes....basically the good parts.
    And... there are actually a lot of BW episodes that have pissed me off. By this point it'd be easier to just list the ones that I can stand to watch. The more the series progresses, the more the writing of these episodes piss me off.

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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    The downright stupid stuff he said in DP sometimes.

    "Daniel reminds me of me!"

    "Whoa, she's holding a Pokeball!" (I'm not even kidding-- watch the Fantina Battle)

    "Both of us have the same goal o winnin' the Sinnoh League, and o'course, right? Yeah, well, ever since then I've been thinkin' about what it means to be strong. And that means, believin' in the strength of my Polka-mon, because I trust and love 'em."

    I'd love to believe DP Ash was the smartest, but while he may not have battled with his brain in the cupboard, the lines he said certainly made it seem like his brain was in a cupboard.

    Don't get me wrong, I know Ash is certainly not the smartest guy, but I never recall him saying such stupid stuff before.

    His battles against Elesa and Roxie in Unova definitely make me dislike him sometimes too.

    It's funny because I liked Ash a lot better in his older arcs. No, I'm not just talking about his dub voice, but definitely that was better before too. XD.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 13th July 2013 at 11:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    I've never really found myself hating Ash either. Even now, he still comes off as a fairly likable character. There have been moments where I've been really annoyed with him like with his battle against Elesa, the mistakes he made in his battles against Trip and Cameron and stealing the spotlight from May in the Manaphy movie, but nothing that has made me hate him.
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Kanto

    Badges out of chores
    Tradin Butterfree for Raticate and back
    Not catching Haunter
    Trusting Team Rocket (he has done this million times)
    Sending out a disobedient Charmeleon and trying to make it lose purposely to a Paras :))
    Ordering Pikachu to use Thunderbolt in cyberspace, causing seizures to 700 children
    Using Charizard in Ritchie's battle

    Orange Islands

    Sending Charizard out in the "battle" against Danny (I can't believe this really worked!)
    Sending Charizard out in a battle against a Poliwrath, with a belt
    Not returning Charizard in his Pokeball when he chilled
    Catching Snorlax
    Breaking Snorlax's Pokeball :))

    Johto

    Catching Chikorita and Cyndaquil
    The way he treated Bayleef at those two episodes with the evolution
    Letting his Pokemon out at the Silver Conference, so that he is almost disqualified
    Dumping all his Pokemon en route to Hoenn

    Hoenn

    His reactions at the Taillow episode
    First battle with Brawly
    Rematching Wattson and losing

    Battle Frontier

    The Sceptile thing
    King of Pokelantis possesses him, he manages to expel him by his own will, he gets scolded by Brandon, and he gets depressed about it!
    Catching Aipom... he should have never done that...

    Sinnoh

    Counter Shield ex machina
    First Full Battle with Paul
    Tobias...

    Unova

    Pikachu losing to Snivy
    Catching Oshawott
    Scolding Oshawott less than Pikachu/Snivy/AXEW(lol AXEW scolded Oshawott!) ever scolded it
    Losing to Lenora, first match. Made him look like he was a total idiot
    Letting Pikachu forget Volt Tackle
    Gym Battle with Elesa
    Gym Battle with Roxie
    Cameron...

    Episode N

    Losing to Cheren
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  14. #44
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    The downright stupid stuff he said in DP sometimes.

    "Daniel reminds me of me!"

    "Whoa, she's holding a Pokeball!" (I'm not even kidding-- watch the Fantina Battle)

    "Both of us have the same goal o winnin' the Sinnoh League, and o'course, right? Yeah, well, ever since then I've been thinkin' about what it means to be strong. And that means, believin' in the strength of my Polka-mon, because I trust and love 'em."

    I'd love to believe DP Ash was the smartest, but while he may not have battled with his brain in the cupboard, the lines he said certainly made it seem like his brain was in a cupboard.

    Don't get me wrong, I know Ash is certainly not the smartest guy, but I never recall him saying such stupid stuff before.

    His battles against Elesa and Roxie in Unova definitely make me dislike him sometimes too.

    It's funny because I liked Ash a lot better in his older arcs. No, I'm not just talking about his dub voice, but definitely that was better before too. XD.
    When did 1 and 2 ever happen? I don't remember seeing them in the original Japanese, but hating him based on a dub mistake is bad on your part. The third though, I am not sure how loving and believing your Pokemon is annoying/ makes you hate him. If anything you must be glad that they retained that part of his character consistently since OS.
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    Default Re: Anime episodes or movie scenes that make you hate Ash

    Quote Originally Posted by dracoflare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    The downright stupid stuff he said in DP sometimes.

    "Daniel reminds me of me!"

    "Whoa, she's holding a Pokeball!" (I'm not even kidding-- watch the Fantina Battle)

    "Both of us have the same goal o winnin' the Sinnoh League, and o'course, right? Yeah, well, ever since then I've been thinkin' about what it means to be strong. And that means, believin' in the strength of my Polka-mon, because I trust and love 'em."

    I'd love to believe DP Ash was the smartest, but while he may not have battled with his brain in the cupboard, the lines he said certainly made it seem like his brain was in a cupboard.

    Don't get me wrong, I know Ash is certainly not the smartest guy, but I never recall him saying such stupid stuff before.

    His battles against Elesa and Roxie in Unova definitely make me dislike him sometimes too.

    It's funny because I liked Ash a lot better in his older arcs. No, I'm not just talking about his dub voice, but definitely that was better before too. XD.
    When did 1 and 2 ever happen? I don't remember seeing them in the original Japanese, but hating him based on a dub mistake is bad on your part. The third though, I am not sure how loving and believing your Pokemon is annoying/ makes you hate him. If anything you must be glad that they retained that part of his character consistently since OS.
    See, I watched the dub of DP, so I have absolutely no idea what he said in JPN in those instances.

    The third line is not bad, but the overuse of "o'course," "'kay," "winnin," and mispronouncing Pokémon is really off-putting for me. XD.

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