Some moves need revamped in future...
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Thread: Some moves need revamped in future...

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    Registered User Shinx3000's Avatar
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    Exclamation Some moves need revamped in future...

    In future games I feel that some pokemon moves need a revamp. Not sure which ones exactly, but one I know does is Dig.

    I was battling a vibrava in D/P that used dig, I thought "ooh its underground, I'll earthquake it!" but I got message "It does not affect vibrava" and since it burrowed its way underground, it should be suceptible to ground type moves right?

    Also I was thinking that if battling pokemon while in water, dig should become useless cause how can you burrow your way underground in water? Thats what dive is for.

    Also Airel Ace being a flying type move, why do so many non flying types able to use this? Aron for example or nidorino.

    Maybe moves like barrier/light screen should tell you how much the stat has been raised and lowered if its brick breaked, how much do those moves raise stats anyway?

    Just a few thoughts, if anyone else has anything to add, feel free.

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    In glorious technicolor The Outrage's Avatar
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    Everyone knows when it says Sharply raises a stat its a level 2 increase (100%) and merely sayin "raises" is a level 1 (50%). Pokemon games never get that technical with numbers, and I think it should stay that way, I mean do I really want to read:

    Weavile use Swords Dance
    Weaviles attack increased by 383 points

    It makes them seem like robots.

    Oh, and despite what you may think, Barrier is not broken by Brick Break because it is not actually a wall that is set up unlike Light Screen and Reflect.

    As for Aerial Ace, why do so many non-ground types learn Earthquake, or non-fire Pokemon learn Flamethrower?

    The dig thing does make sense though.
    Last edited by The Outrage; 1st September 2008 at 08:31 PM.

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    I've also wondered why Surf can't hit a pokemon that's digging. I mean, doesn't the water go down the hole like it's being drained?

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    They need to finally change Mega Kick and Mega Punch to Fighting-type attacks. At least one official Nintendo Power guide has referred to them as such, despite the fact that they are Normal.

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    there're a shitload of overlookable Normal-type moves (which AREN'T some of those early-game attacks like Tackle and Scratch) that could probably use some reworking to make them seem even slightly useful. First off, those charging attacks... aside from the fact that charging before you strike is even worse than charging after you strike (I mean, at least with Hyper Beam, you get to hit before you're left wide open for your opponent to take you out or switch into something with an immunity or whatever), some of them have got base power which is comparable to a regular attack, nowhere near compensating the turn to charge. Skull Bash, for instance, takes two turns for a mere 100 base power worth of damage... though, at least it rose the Pokemon's defense during the charge come generation 2 (seems similar to the improvement Stock-up received in gen 4). It got off MUCH better than the likes of Razor Wind, which is basically Skull Bash with less PP, 20 base points less power, no defense boost, and come generation 4, it became a special move when almost all the Pokemon that learn it are physical attackers, making it even less worthy of being used (as if it had worth in the first place). At least Sky Attack has a 140 attack power, and with generation 4 introducing the Power Herb, it might actually see a bit of usage (technically, Power Herb could also work for Skull Bash and Razor Wind, but would you honestly waste an item on something you could more easily accomplish with Return?).

    Slam and Egg Bomb could at least stand to have their accuracy raised. Hell, why isn't Egg Bomb a better move in general? It's only learned by Lucky, Hapinasu, and Nasshii, and only Nasshii has an attack stat decent enough to actually use it... come to think of it, there're a lot of signature attacks that're just shit, or at least have a superior alternative that causes nobody to bother with the more unique attack (take Mist Ball and Luster Purge, for instance... even though that 50% chance of crippling the opponent looks nice, most people prefer Psychic due to its slightly higher power and more PP). And Constrict... do I need to go there? Sad to think that most of the moves I have listed so far were TMs back in generation 1.

    Also, I think Poison Sting's power should increase a little. I say this merely because I think Beedle and Cocoon deserve a bit of a break... I mean, going around for four generations only being able to use one of the weakest attacks in the games (even if it does have a chance of poisoning) and a shitty attack stat on top of it? Given, unevolved Pokemon, especially unevolved bugs, are novelties anyway... though (and I apologize for going off into movepool revamping rather than attack revamping), given the recent introduction of Bug Bite (which in the Japanese version is named "Bug Devour", referring more to the move's habit of stealing berries), I don't see why those unevolved bugs (whom are usually portrayed as plant-devouring gluttons) couldn't get that if the player has the patience to raise them to a high enough level (after all, Koiking got Flail as early as generation 2). Bug Bite still might not do much from such a crappy attack stat, but that 60 base power (plus STAB, effectively making it 90) would simply do wonders considering what Caterpie, Trancel, Beedle, Cocoon, Kemusso, Karasalis, Mayuld, and Korobooshi (maybe Mitsuhoney to a lesser extent) have to work with (it's sad to think that, thanks to their horribly limited movepools, they're all being outdone by Himanuts, the Pokemon with THE lowest stat total in the games).
    Last edited by Yamato-san; 1st September 2008 at 02:41 PM.

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    when you need more, have+ bell02+'s Avatar
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    Personally, I wouldn't mind if Feint was redone "As in, instead of failing, it does something as strong as tackle". Right now it seems too niche for general use, and in the case of Pokemon where you only have 4 moves, it makes some moves a lot more difficult to keep.

    Honestly, though, I hope the most the keep most moves the same, I like that some moves are weaker, one thing I thought would be a cool new improvement would be a skill system. Something like how Fire Emblem has a Weapon Level, pokemon could have a skill level (with a max of 10), potentially improving the stats of some moves. For example, Guillotine lv 1 is a 1-hit-KO move at 20% accuracy, while level 10 is 40% accuracy. In the same sense, level 10 tackle could be 200% of normal damage. It would give incentive to keeping old moves, or mastering favorites, as well as an idea featured heavily in the show that attacks have to be mastered after they are learned.

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    Registered User Shinx3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outrage DD View Post
    As for Aerial Ace, why do so many non-ground types learn Earthquake, or non-fire Pokemon learn Flamethrower?
    What i thought, is ariel ace is a flying type move and why should non flying types get it? Levitate maybe should, I agree partly on earthquake though, but I can understand why pokemon such as venusaur get it, its a big pokemon kinda like torterra only not ground, but I can see why it could use such a move.

    Never actually tried this, but can earthquake hit pokemon that used dive?

    They need to finally change Mega Kick and Mega Punch to Fighting-type attacks. At least one official Nintendo Power guide has referred to them as such, despite the fact that they are Normal.
    This one I agree on, fighting moves are kicks and punches right?

    Also I think move fly should get a bit of an adjustment if your pokemon and foes both use fly and are "up high" the next move should have a 10% chance of hitting the other pokemon that used fly, if your pokemon was attacking that pokemon.

    As with Feint, I think, insead of it failing (how many chances are you going to see all pokemons moves being used?) it gains power with more of the foes moves you see, eg: You see 2 of foes moves, it increas so much and if you see 4 it has full power etc...
    Last edited by Shinx3000; 1st September 2008 at 03:31 PM.

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    when you need more, have+ bell02+'s Avatar
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    It's really because ”tsubame gaeshi” is a sword technique. (Japanese name of Areal Ace) So besides bird pokemon (It's flying probably because of the name makes a pun for Swellow) it is able to be learned by any pokemon with blade like features: claws, horns, blades.

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    Registered User Staulmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinx3000 View Post
    Also I was thinking that if battling pokemon while in water, dig should become useless cause how can you burrow your way underground in water? Thats what dive is for.
    Conversely, a Pokémon can use Dive when it's on solid ground. That doesn't make much sense either. Of course, having any kind of fish Pokémon float in the air when it's battling on solid ground makes even less sense. I'd like to see the developpers think of a way to make battles more realistic in this sense. If some Pokémon such as Goldeen or Remoraid are fish-like in physiology, than too bad, they can't fight on land, they'd be flopping around like a magikarp. It's not like certain Pokémon like Geodude or Charmander can fight underwater, so why give the fish pokémon the privilege of having two different battle areas?

    Maybe they could make half land and half water areas, like in the show, or water-only areas exclusively for fish-like Pokémon. I think the gameplay mechanics would stay the same, they'd just have more dynamic animations, which would be cool.

    EDIT: The whole 'more dynamic animations' thing applies more to the console Pokémon games than the GB ones.

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    =д= Crankyman's Avatar
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    Tsubame gaeshi is a sword technique where the user feinted with a downward swing, and then turned the blade around to catch the unsuspecting opponent with an upward swing. (presumably done with a single edged sword)

    Which is why they decided to use a name like that for an "always accurate" move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinx3000 View Post
    I was battling a vibrava in D/P that used dig, I thought "ooh its underground, I'll earthquake it!" but I got message "It does not affect vibrava" and since it burrowed its way underground, it should be suceptible to ground type moves right?
    Actually, the reason Earthquake missed is because Vibrava's ability is Levitate. So it was essentially like a Flying-type using Dig, unless Gravity is in effect (or it is holding an Iron Ball) Ground moves will always miss.
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    In glorious technicolor The Outrage's Avatar
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    Yeah, but its underground, so technically it wouldn't be levitating.

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    =д= Crankyman's Avatar
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    It's just an oversight. >_>
    Quote Originally Posted by Sho
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staulmaster View Post
    Conversely, a Pokémon can use Dive when it's on solid ground. That doesn't make much sense either. Of course, having any kind of fish Pokémon float in the air when it's battling on solid ground makes even less sense. I'd like to see the developpers think of a way to make battles more realistic in this sense. If some Pokémon such as Goldeen or Remoraid are fish-like in physiology, than too bad, they can't fight on land, they'd be flopping around like a magikarp. It's not like certain Pokémon like Geodude or Charmander can fight underwater, so why give the fish pokémon the privilege of having two different battle areas?

    Maybe they could make half land and half water areas, like in the show, or water-only areas exclusively for fish-like Pokémon. I think the gameplay mechanics would stay the same, they'd just have more dynamic animations, which would be cool.

    EDIT: The whole 'more dynamic animations' thing applies more to the console Pokémon games than the GB ones.
    I say to hell with that. I've always enjoyed that Pokemon battles are more or less universal... besides, you know how much all the fish Pokemon's usage would diminish if they can't be in the same battle with a Fire-type, or Ground-types and Rock-types for that matter? Also, the way I see it, fish Pokemon don't really flop around (except Koiking, but it's meant to be portrayed as a weak Pokemon anyway). As the beginning of Pikachu's Summer Vacation shows, Kasumi's Tosakinto does surprisingly well hopping on its belly (meanwhile, bigger Pokemon like Laplace and Whaleou drag themselves with their fins, much like sea turtles on the beach). But I guess the hovering animation's alright, as it shows us how these Pokemon would look like if they were swimming.

    Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

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    Registered User Staulmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san View Post
    I say to hell with that. I've always enjoyed that Pokemon battles are more or less universal... besides, you know how much all the fish Pokemon's usage would diminish if they can't be in the same battle with a Fire-type, or Ground-types and Rock-types for that matter? Also, the way I see it, fish Pokemon don't really flop around (except Koiking, but it's meant to be portrayed as a weak Pokemon anyway). As the beginning of Pikachu's Summer Vacation shows, Kasumi's Tosakinto does surprisingly well hopping on its belly (meanwhile, bigger Pokemon like Laplace and Whaleou drag themselves with their fins, much like sea turtles on the beach). But I guess the hovering animation's alright, as it shows us how these Pokemon would look like if they were swimming.
    I know that their usage would be lessened if they were restricted to water-only battles. That's why I said they could make half land and half water arenas. It was just an interesting thought that the developpers could try out to make the animations more interesting. I just find it very odd when I see fish Pokémon floating for no particular reason, and it takes me out of the game quite a bit.

    I meant to say flopping around loosely. I'm sure some can handle being out of the water, but surely their abilities are reduced. So they're usage in land-based battles are reduced as well. But maybe they could make it so that they perform better in water-based arenas. Like say, having a speed boost when completely underwater, since they can swim so efficiently in water. Plus, not all water Pokémon are exclusively fish-like in physiology, so it's not like all water Pokémon are useless on the ground.

    I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I find it could be an interesting concept. I guess this idea applies more to the Stadium games than to the actual RPGs.

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