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Thread: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    The clothes really aren't important, but I wouldn't want Norman's child (most likely May) to battle other trainers routinely; Gym Leaders and Frontier Brains aren't supposed to be invincible, after all. Steven's last words to the player in Emerald ("What will you do from here? Even I don't know that.") imply something very mysterious. I would expect the canon protagonist to continue to maintain the order in Hoenn (which Red apparently didn't do in Kanto), but they would probably do so with minimal exposure to the outside world.
    Interesting theory. How do you propose they do it?
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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy View Post
    You're coming dangerously close to instigating a flame war. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.

    Also, Johto as a "parasitic region", in your opinion, doesn't mean shit when discussing remakes.

    No one here is saying that Hoenn is a bad region. In fact, nobody here is flaming any region except you. It's not about that. Whatever your personal feelings about Johto may be, GF's clearly has had more success with it (to use your own argument, HG and SS both made the top 10 chart and would easily top number 1 when put together. This happened 10+ years after the "fad" died down) than they did with Hoenn, but I digress.

    The point is that no one is bashing Gen III, we just think that no more games should be remade at this point. If the discussion was about Gen IV for whatever reason, my stance against remakes would remain exactly the same. We don't want any more remakes. However, notice that none of us are opposed to Hoenn appearing in Gen V. We just don't want remakes.

    Oh, and please, please, please, try to do something about that grammar of yours. It borders on illegible as it is.
    SOrry I lost my temper there...

    But it seems hypocritical. Hoenn is the only region thast isn't currently playable on the current main system (the DSi doesn't have a GBA slot) And it won't be playable on the 3DS which all the other regions will.

    I just don't want Isshu to be dragged down like Johto did I did like Johto and I still do but I just wish they didn't add Kanto and work on the regon itself.

    Either way Hoenn deserves a remake just as Kanto and Johto do.

    Again I'm very sorry

    Edit: ANd Technicaly if you look at it Gen III sold more then Gen II

    (Taken from WIkipedia)

    Gen I: 29.54 Mil (Red Blue Yellow)
    Gen IV: 24.45 Mil (Diamond Pearl Platinum)
    Gen III: 19.32 (Ruby Saphire Emerald)
    Gen II: 19.05 (Gold Silver Crystal)
    Last edited by Articwolf10; 26th August 2010 at 12:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy View Post
    Interesting theory. How do you propose they do it?
    By referencing a mysterious character in the context of recent events in the ongoing story, rather than just relating them to the past (like with Red). In HGSS, Mr. Pokémon says that that a friend from Hoenn gave him the Red and Blue Orbs; I strongly believe that that friend is Norman's child, who used to live in Johto and is probably the only person in Hoenn that would have been entrusted with the items.

    My theory is that May/Brendan wanted to remove Groudon and Kyogre from Hoenn, since they continued to affect Hoenn's weather even after their battle was stopped, rather than going to sleep like in the original battle. The people of ancient Hoenn that witnessed the first clash apparently traveled to the island of Cianwood City, where they built the Embedded Tower. Why did they do that? My theory is that they knew the titans would wake up eventually, and could pose a threat even if Rayquaza prevented them from battling. Those people must have postulated that Groudon and Kyogre's abilities would become more limited the farther the legendary Pokémon were from the Cave of Origin, so the real solution to the problem would be in the form of drawing those Pokémon away from Hoenn. The Embedded Tower was built to do just that, but the people who stayed in Hoenn to protect the orbs were never made aware of the tower's existence, so the titans had remained in Hoenn for thousands of years until they were awakened.

    After May/Brendan not only lured out Rayquaza but also faced Groudon and Kyogre separately, they were reminded of the tower they'd seen in Johto and realized that the earth, sea and sky elements were connected to the Hoenn titans. This gave them the epiphany that if Groudon and Kyogre were brought to that island, their abilities would no longer be destructive and they could even co-exist without being guarded. But it is notable that May/Brendan chose not to complete this mission by themselves, instead trusting Mr. Pokémon to find the right person for the job (Ethan/Lyra).

    In the sequels, even more years would have passed, and May/Brendan would have other affairs in Hoenn. One possibility is that Regigigas might be making its way to Hoenn to exact its revenge on the people who sealed it; May/Brendan would be the person responsbile for setting Regigigas free, but they would regret their actions. Because of their involvement with the Regis in the original games, they would need only be able to help the new protagonist without directly intervening.

    Truthfully, Regigigas' introduction hasn't exactly been stellar, which is why it may not be ideal for a main plot. With Generation V introducing the seasonal cycle and the possibility of global warming being a plot element in Black and White or their third version, there could certainly be better ideas out there. But I'd rather not veer too far just yet since we'll know about the new legendaries soon enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Articwolf10
    Edit: ANd Technicaly if you look at it Gen III sold more then Gen II

    (Taken from WIkipedia)

    Gen I: 29.54 Mil (Red Blue Yellow)
    Gen IV: 24.45 Mil (Diamond Pearl Platinum)
    Gen III: 19.32 (Ruby Saphire Emerald)
    Gen II: 19.05 (Gold Silver Crystal)
    I don't know where you got those figures, but I'm personally very tired of having to correct the false impression that Gold and Silver were the worst selling games. Do you really think that is the case?

    Here are the correct statistics. Notice that third versions are counted separately, with the exception of Blue.
    Last edited by Silktree; 26th August 2010 at 02:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post

    I don't know where you got those figures, but they're blatantly wrong. Do you honestly think that Diamond and Pearl were more successful than Gold and Silver?

    Here are the correct statistics. Notice that third versions are counted separately, with the exception of Blue.
    Uh... Wikipedia duh I said were I got it from and you're the only person who uses that so yeah

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Articwolf10 View Post
    Uh... Wikipedia duh I said were I got it from and you're the only person who uses that so yeah
    Show me the Wikipedia page and then we'll talk. They probably use outdated sources.

    You want an official source? The announcement of HGSS mentioned the 23 million figure.

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    I wouldn't take Wikipedia seriously. For all I know ANYONE, including you could have edited the sales figures to support your argument. But why are we talking about Gen II vs. Gen III? It's a fact that Gen III sold less than Gen I, Gen II, and Gen IV.
    "95% of the people who are able to read kana think that this automatically makes them know the entire Japanese language, as opposed to actually knowing little more than a first-year student of the language. If you are one of the 5% of that population who believes that being able to read kana is not impressive at all, copy and paste this into your sig."

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    It may or may not have sold less. So?

    How does it matter?

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker View Post
    How does it matter?
    Articwolf10 was trying to establish that it is unthinkable for Gold and Silver to be remade, but not Ruby and Sapphire. That's a subjective view and nothing more than that.

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker View Post
    It may or may not have sold less. So?

    How does it matter?
    You may think that's nothing, but to a business a steep in a franchise is a serious issue. That could be a reason to support why RS wouldn't be remade.
    "95% of the people who are able to read kana think that this automatically makes them know the entire Japanese language, as opposed to actually knowing little more than a first-year student of the language. If you are one of the 5% of that population who believes that being able to read kana is not impressive at all, copy and paste this into your sig."

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blazaking EX View Post
    one of them may done a lab coat or something since one of them has to Birch's kid. Norman's kid, probably having gone more into battling, could have a cape or some cool jacket.
    I always pictured Wallace giving May his cape and her walking around with an overgrown cape.

    All I expect in terms of design, clothing and body shape aside, is something involving their head gear and hair. Also, Brendan's brown eyes to be given a red tone (May - Blue/Sapphire and Wally - Green/Emerald).

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Unown Lord, I'm sorry to say this, given how much thought you put into that post up there, but you're overthinking things. Not even Game Freak would want to create such a complex story, given what they've done with inbetween-game storylines so far.

    And you're completely ignoring the fact that there are more than one of each legendary... It's not like it's impossible for multiple Groudons to exist in the same time and space.

    Also, who would be more likely to have known Mr. Pokemon: May/Brendan or the elderly couple on top of Mt. Pyre?

    Granted, Norman's child is originally from Johto but the orbs were returned safely to the top of Mt. Pyre after the main story of RSE. And I don't think the couple would just give them willy-nilly to anyone, even if it was the kid who saved them both. He's still a kid. You know, the type that shouldn't be trusted unless it's an emergency?

    And if you didn't notice, Mr. Pokemon is an old man. Norman's child is a kid. You are saying that it's more likely that an old man is a good friend with a kid, in a game aimed at children.
    Last edited by Venator; 26th August 2010 at 03:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Unown Lord, I'm sorry to say this, given how much thought you put into that post up there, but you're overthinking things. Not even Game Freak would want to create such a complex story, given what they've done with inbetween-game storylines so far.
    There haven't been enough sequels to make that call. Considering that Generation I didn't leave a lot of plot threads to develop, I'd say that the way Generation II addressed Team Rocket and Red was adequate, although it felt lacking by the time the games were remade. I'm making a case for how the series should be improved.

    And you're completely ignoring the fact that there are more than one of each legendary... It's not like it's impossible for multiple Groudons to exist in the same time and space.
    Professor Oak says that Groudon and Kyogre are the ones from Hoenn's legend. Nothing in the dialogue implies otherwise, either.

    Granted, Norman's child is originally from Johto but the orbs were returned safely to the top of Mt. Pyre after the main story of RSE.
    The orbs were returned by Maxie and Archie. The theory assumes that May/Brendan later asked to be given the orbs.

    And I don't think the couple would just give them willy-nilly to anyone, even if it was the kid who saved them both. He's still a kid. You know, the type that shouldn't be trusted unless it's an emergency?
    Why would the kid who saved Hoenn suddenly stop being trusted? Why would the old couple give the orbs to Mr. Pokémon? While it is simpler to assume that the orbs went through as few hands as possible, wouldn't Mr. Pokémon just mention the old couple if that were the case? At least May/Brendan is supposed to be shrouded in mystery, as evidenced by the fact that Steven was reminded of them when he saw Ethan/Lyra and yet didn't mention them by name.

    But I digress. Even if the old couple gave the orbs directly to Mr. Pokémon, they must have had a reason to want the Weather trio gone from Hoenn. It is safe to assume that May/Brendan's actions were a factor in that decision.

    And if you didn't notice, Mr. Pokemon is an old man. Norman's child is a kid. You are saying that it's more likely that an old man is a good friend with a kid, in a game aimed at children.
    This isn't a serious argument at all. In all the games, most of the characters with whom the player interacts are adults; by your logic the Hoenn protagonist only has two friends (Wally and the opposite-gender character).
    Last edited by Silktree; 26th August 2010 at 04:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    There haven't been enough sequels to make that call. Considering that Generation I didn't leave a lot of plot threads to develop, I'd say that the way Generation II addressed Team Rocket and Red was adequate, although it felt lacking by the time the games were remade. I'm making a case for how the series should be improved.
    True, true. Nothing much to say about that.


    Professor Oak says that Groudon and Kyogre are the ones from Hoenn's legend. Nothing in the dialogue implies otherwise, either.
    I actually haven't gotten that far in HGSS. Does he say "described in Hoenn legends" or similar? That leaves it open to interpretation. If not, oh well. It still does not explain how there are certain Pokemon traveling around the Pokemon Universe when there should only be one. Like, I don't know, the Beasts and Lugia (from FireRed/LeafGreen), the Regis in Platinum, the Birds in Platinum, and the Lati's from HGSS. And it doesn't explain how trainers can have up to six of the same legendary in their party at a time. I mean, if only one should exist in a world, wouldn't a paradox of sorts occur when a double battle takes place?


    The orbs were returned by Maxie and Archie. The theory assumes that May/Brendan later asked to be given the orbs.
    Yeah, like an old couple who have spent there entire life guarding two potentially dangerous weapons orbs would just give them to a kid when not in an emergency. Imagine it like this: give a kid an unloaded gun. Now, if he was a smart and evil kid, what would he do with that unloaded gun? He'd go find ammo and shoot some people stuff. How would the old couple know that a 10 year-old who is silent ninety-nine percent of the time would be trustworthy enough to keep an unloaded weapon?


    Why would the kid who saved Hoenn suddenly stop being trusted?
    Would you trust a kid with two orbs that almost caused a catastrophe?

    Why would the old couple give the orbs to Mr. Pokémon?
    Maybe because they are old friends, perhaps? I mean, since the couple is old and Mr. Pokemon is old, it is possible. Who would you rather trust with something very important: a kid who did something right once or a person you trust because you go way back?

    While it is simpler to assume that the orbs went through as few hands as possible, why wouldn't Mr. Pokémon just mention the old couple?
    Perhaps trying to protect the origin location of the Orbs? He did say old friend so maybe he was refering to one of the couple, maybe the man? I don't really know. Plotholes are bound to happen when you don't have all the pieces.

    At least May/Brendan is supposed to be shrouded in mystery, as evidenced by the fact that Steven was reminded of them when he saw Ethan/Lyra but didn't mention them by name.
    ... Uh. Okay. So, a 10 year-old is more shrouded in mystery than an old couple whom we know nothing about except they guarded orbs? Totally makes sense, dude. Totally.

    But I digress. Even if the old couple gave the orbs directly to Mr. Pokémon, they must have had a reason to want the Weather trio gone from Hoenn. It is safe to assume that May/Brendan's actions were a factor in that decision.
    Who's to say that the Weather Trio left Hoenn? For all we know, there could be a lot more of the supposedly-one-only legendary Pokemon than just the one available in the games. What if the old couple wanted to lessen the chances of that specific trio rising again and did not plan ahead for if the orbs were used to awaken another group of them? What if the trio from Hoenn and the trio from Johto are not one-in-the-same? Did you ever think about that?


    This isn't a serious argument at all. Most of the characters with whom the player interacts are adults; by your logic the Hoenn protagonist only has two friends (Wally and the opposite-gender character).
    Wow. You shot over the point of what I said entirely. A kid is good enough friends with an old man to trust him with two potentially lethal weapons that were supposedly entrusted him by your logic. Kid + Old Man... ... ... Do I have to explain what you are subtly insinuating? Some crack shipping or something?

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I actually haven't gotten that far in HGSS. Does he say "described in Hoenn legends" or similar? That leaves it open to interpretation. If not, oh well.
    This is what he says: "Those Pokémon! They were at the Embedded Tower? They are KYOGRE and GROUDON--the Pokémon from the Hoenn myth! I never dreamed you would catch such Pokémon... You have proven yourself worthy!"

    Like, I don't know, the Beasts and Lugia (from FireRed/LeafGreen), the Regis in Platinum, the Birds in Platinum, and the Lati's from HGSS.
    Pokémon are capable of such a thing called moving. We see Suicune travel to Kanto in HGSS, so it could have done just that three years previously. Likewise, Steven clearly states that Latias and Latios came from Hoenn.

    The other cases are somewhat ambiguous, but Lugia and Ho-Oh returned to Johto in Generation II; they could have easily been present in Navel Rock years before that. It can be assumed from the Pokédex entries that Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres travel all over the world to bring snow, thunderstorms and early spring, respectively. As for the Regis, either Regigigas summoned them from Hoenn or it created a new trio from stones, but the entire event may not even be canon due to the event Regigigas not having a discernible origin (whereas the Sinjoh Ruins event can also triggered by a Hall of Origin Arceus).

    And it doesn't explain how trainers can have up to six of the same legendary in their party at a time. I mean, if only one should exist in a world, wouldn't a paradox of sorts occur when a double battle takes place?
    Do you think that every player character has thousands of clones, too? This is called gameplay and story segregation.

    How would the old couple know that a 10 year-old who is silent ninety-nine percent of the time would be trustworthy enough to keep an unloaded weapon?
    How did they know to trust them the first time around? Even if they turned to them as a last resort or because the situation warranted it, May/Brendan proved beyond any shadow of doubt that they were worthy of that trust.

    Would you trust a kid with two orbs that almost caused a catastrophe?
    I would if that kid were the Hoenn Champion that also saved the region from certain doom.

    Perhaps trying to protect the origin location of the Orbs? He did say old friend so maybe he was refering to one of the couple, maybe the man?
    He only says "a friend of mine from Hoenn".

    ... Uh. Okay. So, a 10 year-old is more shrouded in mystery than an old couple whom we know nothing about except they guarded orbs? Totally makes sense, dude. Totally.
    What else is there to know about the old couple? They're apparently Pheobe's grandparents, if that counts.

    Who's to say that the Weather Trio left Hoenn? For all we know, there could be a lot more of the supposedly-one-only legendary Pokemon than just the one available in the games. What if the old couple wanted to lessen the chances of that specific trio rising again and did not plan ahead for if the orbs were used to awaken another group of them? What if the trio from Hoenn and the trio from Johto are not one-in-the-same? Did you ever think about that?
    They are the same trio. Deal with it.

    Wow. You shot over the point of what I said entirely. A kid is good enough friends with an old man to trust him with two potentially lethal weapons that were supposedly entrusted him by your logic. Kid + Old Man... ... ... Do I have to explain what you are subtly insinuating? Some crack shipping or something?
    Mr. Pokémon gave the orbs to Ethan/Lyra, who had given him the Red Scale before. Someone should alert the authorities.
    Last edited by Silktree; 26th August 2010 at 05:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    This what he says: "Those Pokémon! They were at the Embedded Tower? They are KYOGRE and GROUDON--the Pokémon from the Hoenn myth! I never dreamed you would catch such Pokémon... You have proven yourself worthy!"
    Hoenn myth, huh. Sounds a bit, well, let's get the definition of myth, shall we?

    1.
    a. A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society.

    b. Such stories considered as a group.
    2. A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one considered to illustrate a cultural ideal.
    3. A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.
    4. A fictitious story, person, or thing.


    Hrmmm. Well, since they were shown to exist, I guess that they aren't really a myth themselves, more like what they are said to be able to do. But it's funny how there were no mentions of the trio being moved from Hoenn or any legends of the trio existing there in Johto. Hrmmm. Something fishy here but not anywhere near as fishy as your theory.

    Pokémon are capable of such a thing called moving. We see Suicune travel to Kanto in HGSS, so it could have also done it three years previously. Likewise, Steven clearly states that Latias and Latios came from Hoenn.
    Still does not explain the Beasts if it's still accepted that they were originally statues before Ethan/Kris/Lyra entered the Burned Tower.

    The other cases are somewhat ambiguous, but Lugia and Ho-Oh returned to Johto in Generation II; they could have easily been present in Navel Rock years before that.
    Well, I left Ho-oh out for a reason because it was explained that Ho-oh had left and had just returned. But, Lugia was supposedly awakened at Whirl Islands so I thought I'd leave that open. No comment, really.

    It can be assumed from the Pokédex entries that Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres travel all over the world to bring snow, thunderstorms and early spring, respectively.
    Assuming is bad, UL. Anyway, I doubt that those Pokemon are supposedly able to change the weather (in a large area) because of the new Seasons feature coming up. Unless GF somehow fits the birds into that process, bye-bye Pokedex-based assumptions.

    As for the Regis, either Regigigas summoned them from Hoenn or it created a new trio from stones, but the entire event may not even be canon due to the event Regigigas not having a discernible origin (whereas the Sinjoh Ruins event can also triggered by a Hall of Origin Arceus).
    I'll tell you where the origin of that Regigigas is. Snowpoint Temple. And Regigigas isn't exactly magical enough to summon the Golems so let's go with this theory: There are more than one Regice, Regirock, and Registeel. The ones sealed in Hoenn and the ones sealed in Mount Coronet. And possibly others sealed throughout the rest of PokeJapan.

    Unless you have a problem with that theory?


    Do you think that every player character has thousands of clones, too? This is called gameplay and story segregation.
    Yes, but if there were only one of each legendary per "dimension", don't you think there would be some logical problem when they meet after trading?


    How did they know to trust them the first time around?
    It was an emergency. They couldn't do anything about Archie and Maxie. But brave little idiot saw some stuff like the base in Lilycove and the submarine being stolen in Slateport and just happened to be on Mount Pyre due to a want to explore. So they had him do it.

    Even if they turned to them as a last resort or because the situation warranted it, May/Brendan proved beyond any shadow of doubt that they were worthy of that trust.
    At that time, anyways. Who's to say that a kid can't go wrong and isn't worth trust later? And who's to say that a change in trust can't happen in less than three years?


    I would if that kid were the Hoenn Champion that also saved the region from certain doom.
    Would you do it if you knew the kid was going to give it to some random old man from his youth who would give it to two kids who beat another kid on top of a mountain?


    He only says a "friend of mine from Hoenn".
    Could still mean that he was a friend with the husband or wife and that person gave him the orb.


    What else is there to know about the old couple? They're apparently Pheobe's grandparents, if that counts.
    What's so mysterious about a kid, three years after their Pokemon journey? I mean, Red isn't mysterious. But that couple has lived a full life doing what they do. It isn't exactly impossible for them to have done something mysterious in their youth. And it isn't exactly impossible for a young, traveling Mr. Pokemon to have met them when he was traveling as a kid.


    They are the same trio. Deal with it.
    They aren't the same trio. Deal with it. It's not like the supposed creators of the entire world are that easy to battle, catch and train. (I don't not want a Pokeball-as-power-limiter debate, okay? Even a Pokeball does not explain how easy it is to KO a supposed god in the wild.)


    Mr. Pokémon gave the orbs to Ethan/Lyra, who had given him the Red Scale. Someone should alert the authorities.
    He probably told the couple beforehand. Or not and he made an irresponsible decision that paid off big. Wait...

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