The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

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    七パーセント Blue Dragon's Avatar
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    Default The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    I have just recently found my old Gameboy Color and my old version of Yellow and Crystal too :p

    I thought I would check out the pokemon I had previously and OMG I could not believe the EV's that they had obtained. I completely forgot how bulky and more powerful pokemon were in the olden days lol

    Anyway I compared my Gyarados on pokemon Black, which was EV trained extremely well to Lvl.100 with great IV's and compared it with my Lvl.100 Gyarados from Crystal and not only was it's predecessor's EV's higher they exceeded in power O.o

    The funny thing is I didn't even know much about EV's in Pokemon Crystal. I just wish I could transfer them to my Pokemon Black rofl.

    If anyone has the same occurance or the oppisite share it in this thread :3
    Last edited by Blue Dragon; 9th June 2011 at 11:17 AM.

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    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    The key difference though is, IVs. In Generations I and II, the highest a Pokémon's IVs could reach was 15; from Generation III onwards that became 31. Also, prior to Gen III, there was no 510 EV cap; so you could max out all the Pokémon's stats.

    Also, are base stats the same? I can't find any information on the Gen I/II base stats.

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    七パーセント Blue Dragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    The key difference though is, IVs. In Generations I and II, the highest a Pokémon's IVs could reach was 15; from Generation III onwards that became 31. Also, prior to Gen III, there was no 510 EV cap; so you could max out all the Pokémon's stats.

    Also, are base stats the same? I can't find any information on the Gen I/II base stats.
    Ah an EV cap that would explain it! rofl Although just to imagine what it would be like to battle without a limit to the stat distribution. I can kinda see why they added that cap lol.

    I would imagine the the base stats would have been the same, as I checked my pokemon on Crystal with the stat information on Bulbapedia and none exceed the limits put on there, however they are all almost to the max.

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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    The key difference though is, IVs. In Generations I and II, the highest a Pokémon's IVs could reach was 15; from Generation III onwards that became 31. Also, prior to Gen III, there was no 510 EV cap; so you could max out all the Pokémon's stats.

    Also, are base stats the same? I can't find any information on the Gen I/II base stats.
    Base stats haven't changed since Gen II. From Gen I, the only change was the Special split into Sp. Attack and Sp. Defense. Some Pokémon retained Sp. Atk, some Sp. Def., some retained equal both Sp. Atk and Sp. Def.

    An emblematic example is Gyarados itself; its Special stat was 100, allowing it to use Water moves nicely. After the split, it kept Special stat as Sp. Def. and got a mediocre 60 base Sp. Atk. Also, not knowing any Flying move, basically it was unable to take advantage from STAB until Gen IV, when Physical/Special moves were introduced in gen IV, getting both physical Aqua Tail and HM Waterfall. And Bounce by tutor.

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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    The key difference though is, IVs. In Generations I and II, the highest a Pokémon's IVs could reach was 15; from Generation III onwards that became 31.
    Not quite - Generations I and II had DVs, which had sixteen possible values. Each one was worth two stat points, whereas there are 32 possible IVs and each is worth one point. Ignoring natures and Stat Exp./EVs, a Pokemon with a 15 Attack DV will have the same max Attack as the same Pokemon with 31 Attack IVs.
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    megane shota hurristat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    Taking into account Frost's explanation and the lack of an EV cap prior to Gen III, it would make sense that the pokemon were much stronger then -- because they were.

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    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by hurristat View Post
    Taking into account Frost's explanation and the lack of an EV cap prior to Gen III, it would make sense that the pokemon were much stronger then -- because they were.
    They don't make Pokémon like they used to! [/OldManVoice]

    At least now though, it's easy to tell which moves are physical/special in-game, so we can exploit a Pokémon's strength more without having to research about which types are physical/special etc.

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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    Where do you guys train your pokemon in Crystal? a lot of grinding i think. :/

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    Registered User Jenni's Avatar
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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    the "EV" system was introduced in gen 3, prior to gen 3 there was Stat exp, each stat had it's own experience value, and you got exp for each stat from every pokemon you defeated, based on a percentage of the base stats. The result of training up a pokemon to max Stat exp would be similar to taking a pokemon in a newer game to 255 EVs in all of it's stats. this, along with the DV changes mentioned in an earlier post, mean that pokemon from the first two generations tend to be much stronger, in terms of overall stats. not to mention, there was no natures then, thus no hindering natures nor helpful ones, to further influence stats. Getting a pokemon with perfect stats (for it's species) in RBY and GSC is actually fairly easy.

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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    I do wonder how radically different today's metagame would be if the EV Cap were removed. I appreciated that addition in Generation III because it made things different, but after a decade removing the cap would be the refreshing change.

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    I want to rp! Te-em's Avatar
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    Default Re: The older the game the more powerful the Pokemon.

    The cap forces you to prioritise a stat, making Pokemon more different from each other. So two Gyarados with max IV can still be different, because they are EV trained differently. However, I find the game more entertaining if you don't have to be so careful about which Pokemon you battle and which EV you get. Removing the cap and you would no longer worry about getting the wrong EV. And if the Box Trick is still present, you don't have to worry about reaching lv. 100 too early.

    I think it's good that you have to distribute the EVs carefully, but I wish they could change it to some other system that is more fun, like the skill points in DQ. When you play DQ: Journey of the Cursed King, you can allocate your skill points to your weapons, making your character better at using some weapons over others. I wish the stats in Pokemon would work in a similar way.

    The stat system in FF2 is also interesting. When you attack, you get higher attack stat. If you cast magic your max MP may go up and if you get hit your max HP may increase. How much they increase is determined by the Magic and Strength stat, which also increase when you battle. However, if Magic goes up, Strength will go down, making it harder to train your physical stats. If Strength go up, Magic will go down, meaning your MP, magic attack, etc will have lesser chance to grow. In FF I don't care much about stats, so I would have to see this system in for instance Pocket Monsters to find out if I really like it.

    About the Pokemon being stronger in the older games. Statwise, I guess they are. There is also in the first generation the high Special stat of some Pokemon. But new Pokemon learn a lot more techniques and strong attacks. That's why the old games can be hard, if your Pokemon have mostly Normal-Type attacks in the beginning. New Pokemon learn a lot of attacks, since there are more attacks to learn.
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