Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!
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Thread: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

  1. #1

    Default Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    So, I was doing a search of beta Pokemon's names (Happa, Honooguma , Kurusu, etc) and found a first-hand description of the Pokémon G/S demo from Nintendo Spaceworld 1997 (first public showing of the games)

    http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5553/prepm2.html

    http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FTimesSquare%2FCastle%2F5553%2Fprepm2 .html&sl=ja&tl=en

    http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FTimesSquare%2FCastle%2F5553%2Fprepm2.html&lp=ja_en&btnTr Url=Translate

    I used Google & Babblefish Translate for now to get some info out of it. Seems to me that there was a demo of the game & it started after the Oak intro with the player already having some pokemon. Looks like the 3 lost starters were actually programmed into this demo. You fought some battles & the demo ended. Seems a bit like the Ruby/Sapphire Pokemon Festa demo.

    Then some kind of demo reel that showed other new pokemon names was showed. It has old (beta) town names/ beta pokemon names & other game features that aren't made entirely clear from the automatic translation. Might try and email the guy to see if he has any pics/videos from it.

    Edit:
    Found some more info about the demo

    http://www3.synapse.ne.jp/pacific/users/pokemon/ibutsu/kingin_time_capsule/pokemon.html

    http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.synapse.ne.jp%2Fpacific%2Fusers%2Fpokemon%2Fibutsu% 2Fkingin_time_capsule%2Fpokemon.html&sl=ja&tl=en
    http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.synapse.ne.jp%2Fpacific%2Fusers%2Fpokemon%2Fibutsu%2Fkingin_time_capsul e%2Fpokemon.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate


    http://park3.wakwak.com/~pokepale/pokeold/archive/kingin.htm

    http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpark3.wakwak.com%2F%7Epokepale%2Fpokeold%2Farchive%2Fkin gin.htm&sl=ja&tl=en
    http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpark3.wakwak.com%2F%7Epokepale%2Fpokeold%2Farchive%2Fkingin.htm&lp=ja_en&btn TrUrl=Translate

    These new sites even have the Pokédex numbers for the lost starters
    Last edited by celebi23; 10th April 2009 at 06:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Nuzlocke challenge'd d.aisuke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    This looks like some good info you found. Unfortunately, most of the links don't work, and the the Japanese in most of them won't show up. Perhaps direct links to the sites?

    Did any of them have pictures?
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Sorry for reviving an old thread but, I've put together a site with some of those descriptions of the SpaceWorld 1997 demo & a bunch of other things as well
    http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Main.html

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    The Japanese shows up, you just have to switch encoding in your browser.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    I hate to revive such an old topic but, I've been able to finish my summary of the Spaceworld 1997 Demo

    A little recap of this project of mine:
    So, here's a little something that I've been working on for awhile. With all of the HG/SS hype lately, it got me interested in continuing this project. My goal was to collect information about G/S, before it was delayed in March of 1998. I compiled a website containing my findings (not really organized, mostly an information dumpsite. Found a ton more information since June 2009 :D )
    http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Main.html

    The most amazing part of my findings is that I've been able to track down about 4-First hand accounts of the Pokémon Gold/Silver Spaceworld 1997 Demo. With those, I was able to create a decent summary of the demo. Please keep in mind that I had to use Google/Yahoo Babelfish/Excite translation tools so, the translations may not be 100% accurate. If anyone is fluent in Japanese & would want to translate some of these pages, that would be amazing :lol

    Combined Spaceworld 1997 Demo Information




    • Expected Release Date: March 1998
    • Tentative Price: 3500 yen each
    • Game was 80 percent complete.


    (<--The demo stations in the right bottom corner of this picture)



    A map of the Gold/Silver Demo area. The Silver Demo area is on top & the Gold demo area is on the bottom. On the far right part of the map is the Gold/Silver movie area. Some demo stations were located in this area as well. They showed a short video with names/artwork of new Pokémon. There were 60 demo stations for Gold & 60 for Silver.

    Now on to the summary:
    Demo was played on November 22nd, 1997. The demo originally lasted 10 minutes. This was later reduced to 5 minutes due to the long lines.

    Demo started with Lapras surfing, Pikachu singing, Charizard's Flamethrower. Title screen is Ho-oh/Lugia depending on which demo you played.

    You had to say what time it was before the demo could continue. Professor Oak appeared at the start of the game to introduce you to the world of Pokémon. You're automatically named Ash Ketchum.

    The game started in the town "Silent Hills". You started in your room.


    (Click for a larger version)


    There was a random assignment of a LV.8 Pokémon:


    Kurusu
    PokéDex No.:212
    Type:Water
    Moves:Growl, Water Gun, Tackle


    Honooguma
    PokéDexNo.:
    Type: Fire
    Moves: Ember, Leer, Scratch


    Happa
    PokéDex No.:152
    Type: Grass
    Moves:Tackle, Serene, Leech Seed

    No matter which started you were given, a Nut was equipped to it. When your Pokémon's HP amount drops below half, it is automatically recovered at the end of the turn.
    You had the following items:
    PokéBalls x 5
    Heal Powder? x 10
    Mint Berry x 1
    Revive/Revival Herb? x 1

    In your room, you had an N64, dolls, radio, computer, etc. A radio transmission played:
    "Oak disappeared from Kanto. There is a view of moved the location for a new Pokémon & this event might be the cause. The safety is a concern."
    It might be at this point that Oak found the new Pokémon. The PC is connected to a homepage somewhere & says "Yoroidori (Eaamudo/Skarmory) is the newly discovered Pokémon. It's type is flying & it's classified as metal.
    The rival shows up. It is another boy from Red/Green/Blue?

    In the demo, you couldn't go into Oak's Lab or even a Pokémon Center to rest your Pokémon. Someone stops you from entering the Pokémon Center.

    Taking the exit on the west side of town, there were a few patches of tall grass. The following Pokémon were confirmed as wild Pokémon:
    Pidgey
    Rattata
    Pikachu
    Mariru (Marill) (No,179)
    Kirinriki (Girafarig) (still used the old design of two heads)


    Sunny (Sunflora)
    Haneko (Hoppip) No.214
    Rediba (Ledyba) No.202

    When a Pokémon was captured, it is recorded in your Pokédex (you automatically start with one in this demo). With the new Pokémon, it only states "Newly discovered Pokémon. Under investigation."

    When encountering a wild Pokémon, a PokéBall pattern displays on the screen. Graphically, it's similar to Red/Green. Your Pokémon has it's back to you & it is facing the wild Pokémon. Under the HP gauge, there's a gauge to show how much more experience your Pokémon needs to get to the next Level. When capturing a Pokémon, the ball splits, One half above the wild Pokémon & the other half below. Much more like the Anime's version of capturing Pokémon.

    There is a highland to the west of this area that resembles Veridian Forest. There's some Pokémon Trainers in the grass. The wild Pokémon in this area:
    Caterpie
    Metapod
    Paras
    Venonat
    Clefairy
    Meowth
    Slowking

    Two of the Pokémon Trainers in the Forest were:

    Schoolboy


    Lass


    There is ??? at the end of the Forest. Your rival is also there. Talk to him & the demo ends. While it was getting dark, Hoothoot & Puku (a flying squirrel, maybe Sentret?) were found in the Forest.

    I combined the following sources to create the summary of the Spaceworld 1997 Demo:
    http://www.reocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5553/prepm2.html
    *http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reocities.com%2FTimesSquare%2FCastle%2F5553%2Fprepm2 .html&sl=ja&tl=en
    *http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http://www.reocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5553/prepm2.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
    *http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http://www.reocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5553/prepm2.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2


    http://web.archive.org/web/20021114111108/http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~niki/poke2.html
    *http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20021114111108%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fww w.bekkoame.ne.jp%2F%7Eniki%2Fpoke2.html&sl=ja&tl=en
    *http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20021114111108/http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~niki/poke2.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
    *http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http://web.archive.org/web/20021114111108/http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~niki/poke2.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2


    http://www3.synapse.ne.jp/pacific/users/pokemon/ibutsu/kingin_time_capsule/pokemon.html
    *http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.synapse.ne.jp%2Fpacific%2Fusers%2Fpokemon%2Fibutsu% 2Fkingin_time_capsule%2Fpokemon.html&sl=ja&tl=en
    *http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http://www3.synapse.ne.jp/pacific/users/pokemon/ibutsu/kingin_time_capsule/pokemon.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
    *http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http://www3.synapse.ne.jp/pacific/users/pokemon/ibutsu/kingin_time_capsule/pokemon.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2


    http://park3.wakwak.com/~pokepale/pokeold/archive/kingin.htm
    *http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpark3.wakwak.com%2F%7Epokepale%2Fpokeold%2Farchive%2Fkingin.htm&sl= ja&tl=en
    *http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http://park3.wakwak.com/~pokepale/pokeold/archive/kingin.htm&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
    *http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http://park3.wakwak.com/~pokepale/pokeold/archive/kingin.htm&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2


    http://koikinnohp.web.fc2.com/text/kousatu02.htm
    *http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkoikinnohp.web.fc2.com%2Ftext%2Fkousatu02.htm&sl=ja&tl=en
    *http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http://koikinnohp.web.fc2.com/text/kousatu02.htm&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
    *http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http://koikinnohp.web.fc2.com/text/kousatu02.htm&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2


    http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke2/t6.html
    *http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhakuda2.web.fc2.com%2Fir%2Fpoke2%2Ft6.html&sl=ja&tl=en
    *http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-res&trurl=http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke2/t6.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
    *http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke2/t6.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

    Other
    *http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/www.nintendo.co.jp/n12/report/112202.html
    *http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/www.nintendo.co.jp/n12/report/112203.html

    Here's the website version of the above post:
    http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Combined_Demo_Info.html

    And a short summary of the video shown near the G/S demo area:
    http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Combined_Video_Info.html

    I've got a ton more information on http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Main.html
    Screenshots of G/S before it was delayed in March of 1998, early game art, the first PokéDex entry (Screenshot is Amphrados from some point in 1997), press releases, magazine scans, etc. I felt that this breakthrough in my research warranted reviving this topic
    Last edited by celebi23; 11th February 2010 at 04:11 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    I'd honestly be more interested in playing the beta versions than the remakes. It seems that the plot was quite different, but I suppose it couldn't have been significantly more interesting than that of the final games. Still, the idea of Oak revealing new Pokémon throughout the plot is very appealing; it would also appear that there was supposed to be a story about Oak endangering himself while exploring Johto's wilderness.

    I noticed Lugia's name the last time I went over these Japanese web sites, but it has just now dawned on me that people saw a glimpse of it in the Silver demo. It wasn't completely brand new when it was heralded as a mysterious sighting in early 1999.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    I'd honestly be more interested in playing the beta versions than the remakes. It seems that the plot was quite different, but I suppose it couldn't have been significantly more interesting than that of the final games. Still, the idea of Oak revealing new Pokémon throughout the plot is very appealing; it would also appear that there was supposed to be a story about Oak endangering himself while exploring Johto's wilderness.

    I noticed Lugia's name the last time I went over these Japanese web sites, but it has just now dawned on me that people saw a glimpse of it in the Silver demo. It wasn't completely brand new when it was heralded as a mysterious sighting in early 1999.
    Yeah, from what I can gather, by November 1997, the game was 80% complete & was due to be released in March 1998. Heck, even at Spaceworld, a guidebook was given out (where the demo area map comes from) and a decent amount of character/pokémon art & screenshots were included (the hero, rival, trainers, various Pokémon & some "new" screenshots)
    http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Spaceworld_1997_Guide_Book.html

    Then, mid-March 1998, the game was delayed
    http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/The_Delay.html

    "They basically say that everyone is giving it their all, but adding all the new stuff (a much more interesting Pokemon world than before, increasing the number of Pokemon and moves, etc.) is taking more time than they expected and the developers are getting worn out, etc., so they have no choice but to delay it. Then I think they say something about working as quickly as possible to make it (the game) several times "powered up" compared to what they showed at Space World '97 and World Hobby Fair, so please understand/thank you for understanding."

    I'm guessing that Nintendo "asked' GameFreak to delay it so that the GBC would have some high-profile titles to show what the system could do. The game areas were completely scrapped and redone. They most likely went from the designs (included in this version) --> The "beta maps" --> The final maps included in the final game.

    The Pokémon designs/Character designs were kept the same, just "upgraded" for the new GBC.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    I'm a bit surprised to see that the artwork for the characters that did make it to the final versions was preserved from the 1997 renditions (with the exception of Oak). I wish we could see the video that had the artwork for the unused Pokémon, as well.

    Another thing that intrigues me is what made Game Freak scrap the designs for the male and female protagonists - even before the decision to to work "harder" on the games. What else did they change before November 1997?

    Quote Originally Posted by celebi23
    I'm guessing that Nintendo "asked' GameFreak to delay it so that the GBC would have some high-profile titles to show what the system could do. The game areas were completely scrapped and redone. They most likely went from the designs (included in this version) --> The "beta maps" --> The final maps included in the final game.
    Yes, the transition to the GBC was obviously the primary reason for the games being delayed by almost two years, even though I don't believe anyone has ever admitted it. Now, twelve years later, it will be interesting to see Game Freak handle releasing a new generation for the same system as its predecessor. I sincerely hope that the games will manage to be refreshingly innovative despite this, which is certainly possible since Game Freak can develop the series in ways other than the predictable route.

    Are my eyes deceiving me, or is that Unown text on one of the walls in the bottom left screenshot on this page? That touch is missing from the artistry of the Ruins of Alph even in the remakes (though the interior design of the ruins in the final Generation II games had something similar).

    Finally, I really appreciate all the work you've done. That said, perhaps it is a good idea that someone who is more proficient in Japanese go over all the sources you've managed to find. You might have missed one or two details worth mentioning.
    Last edited by Silktree; 10th February 2010 at 05:42 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    I'm a bit surprised to see that the artwork for the characters that did make it to the final versions was preserved from the 1997 renditions (with the exception of Oak). I wish we could see the video that had the artwork for the unused Pokémon, as well.

    Another thing that intrigues me is what made Game Freak scrap the designs for the male and female protagonists - even before the decision to to work "harder" on the games. What else did they change before November 1997?


    Yes, the transition to the GBC was obviously the primary reason for the games being delayed by almost two years, even though I don't believe anyone has ever admitted it. Now, twelve years later, it will be interesting to see Game Freak handle releasing a new generation for the same system as its predecessor. I sincerely hope that the games will manage to be refreshingly innovative despite this, which is certainly possible since Game Freak can develop the series in ways other than the predictable route.

    Are my eyes deceiving me, or is that Unown text on one of the walls in the bottom left screenshot on this page? That touch is missing from the artistry of the Ruins of Alph even in the remakes (though the interior design of the ruins in the final Generation II games had something similar).

    Finally, I really appreciate all the work you've done. That said, perhaps it is a good idea that someone who is more proficient in Japanese go over all the sources you've managed to find. You might have missed one or two details worth mentioning.

    It might be Unknown text. Here's a slightly larger/clearer version of that screenshot

    http://idisk.me.com/celebi23/Public/PKMN/1998%2002%20-%20Computer%20and%20Videogames.png

    http://web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Computer_%26_Videogames_Magazine.html

    I've got some more sources being sent to me in the next couple of days I also asked a friend of mine from college, who's taking an advance Japanese course, if he could translate some things for me. Should know in a few days

  10. #10
    ★ Prince of Ampora ★ Takoto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Jesus Christ, dude. Nice work. Beta stuff really interests me so I'm gonna read over everything you've found.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Takoto View Post
    Jesus Christ, dude. Nice work. Beta stuff really interests me so I'm gonna read over everything you've found.
    Thank you It's been a project that I've been working on for a few months. My goal was to preserve this Gold/Silver development history before it was lost forever

  12. #12
    F***ing Fabulous Lysandre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Wow... this is amazing. I can't believe the three concept art starters were once playable in public... I'd love to see those sprites.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Luc Pikachu View Post
    Wow... this is amazing. I can't believe the three concept art starters were once playable in public... I'd love to see those sprites.
    Yeah, they were once playable in public. If I can some pictures of the demo (sent an email to a guy who did extensive Spaceworld 1999 coverage, asked if he was @ Spaceworld 1997) you guys will be the first to know :D

  14. #14
    Sentinal of Anistar Ryuutakeshi's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Interesting. Thank you for doing this.

    Evil Figment (7:59:44 PM): Ryuu, however shakily you started, I've got to hand it to you that you earned my respect the hard way.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Motherload of Pokemon G/S ALPHA information!!

    Updated some of the starters' moves/ types

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