BULBAPEDIA: Suggestions, ideas, and problems - Page 134

# Thread: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

1. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by xrick
Originally Posted by Digifiend
This is about the card game? Or something else? I'm not quite getting it...
Nope, the UPNetwork I'm talking about is the Universal Pokemon Network. I was a member of that forum and PokeAbode WAY back in 1999-2001 and want to add more information about those and the other "big four" fansites from that era. I've wanted to update those articles for the longest time, but never got around to doing it. I'll do it soon.

2. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster
Yes, but once you've given it an average power column, you put it on par with all other moves. So unless we go through and add effective power to all moves, it is giving multi-hit moves unnecessary information that applies to all moves exactly the same.
However, effective power would make sense for Triple Kick, since each attack has its own accuracy check.
If it must be done for consistency reasons, so be it. Veekun already has their version of Effective Power anyway, so why not us? And I fail to see how a move whose power ranges on hitting 2x 3/8 of the time, 3x 3/8 of the time, 4x 1/8 of the time, and 5x 1/8 of the time is "exactly the same" as Take Down, which has a definite power. Just because the accuracy check for all moves other than Triple Kick is the same calculation doesn't mean that Average Power is "unnecessary."

UPDATE: I edited Multi-hit move once again to calculate Triple Kick. It was a bitch of a math problem. I had to use a TI-83 calculator to figure it out. Thankfully I learned this type of problem in statistics class. Because Triple Kick has 60 power 72.9% of the time, 30 power 8.1% of the time, 10 power 9% of the time, and misses outright 10% of the time, I knew how to calculate it with the 83.

3. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by Aviator Zero
Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster
Yes, but once you've given it an average power column, you put it on par with all other moves. So unless we go through and add effective power to all moves, it is giving multi-hit moves unnecessary information that applies to all moves exactly the same.
However, effective power would make sense for Triple Kick, since each attack has its own accuracy check.
If it must be done for consistency reasons, so be it. Veekun already has their version of Effective Power anyway, so why not us? And I fail to see how a move whose power ranges on hitting 2x 3/8 of the time, 3x 3/8 of the time, 4x 1/8 of the time, and 5x 1/8 of the time is "exactly the same" as Take Down, which has a definite power. Just because the accuracy check for all moves other than Triple Kick is the same calculation doesn't mean that Average Power is "unnecessary."

UPDATE: I edited Multi-hit move once again to calculate Triple Kick. It was a bitch of a math problem. I had to use a TI-83 calculator to figure it out. Thankfully I learned this type of problem in statistics class. Because Triple Kick has 60 power 72.9% of the time, 30 power 8.1% of the time, 10 power 9% of the time, and misses outright 10% of the time, I knew how to calculate it with the 83.
No, I'm not saying average power is unnecessary, only effective power. Because once you have the average power, it is on par with every other move since there is only one accuracy check. So unless we add effective power to every move (which I think would probably just confuse some people anyway), I think it is better to only list the average power.

4. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster
No, I'm not saying average power is unnecessary, only effective power. Because once you have the average power, it is on par with every other move since there is only one accuracy check. So unless we add effective power to every move (which I think would probably just confuse some people anyway), I think it is better to only list the average power.
All right then, that makes sense. Effective Power is really only practical for Triple Kick since that changes the whole calculation.

5. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

@SnorlaxMonster, you incorrectly edited Triple Kick's info on Multi-hit Move. 60 is most certainly NOT the average power of the move. It's not even an average to begin with. That's the max power the move can attain, and has a 72.9% chance of happening (0.9 x 0.9 x 0.9). You changed what I had defined Average Power to be for Triple Kick: "*For Triple Kick, Average Power calculates the average total amount of damage from the chance and power of hitting once, twice, or three times, if the move hits in the first place." ...to something entirely different.

You also misunderstood Effective Power. Due to Triple Kick's complex calculation, its EP is not simply AP times Accuracy (as is the case with the other multi-hit moves). Since I needed a friggin' graphing calculator to do the required function*, Triple Kick's EP should be defined as such.

*FYI, if you know these calculators, I can tell you what I did. I put 0, 10, 30, and 60 (the powers) in a list in that order. I then put 0.10, 0.09, 0.081, and 0.729 (their corresponding chances of happening) in another list, in order. Using the 1-Var Stats function, the calculator gave me 47.07 as the average power considering the chance of missing on the first turn. Not considering that (i.e., removing 0 power and its 10% chance, leaving the powers 10, 30, and 60, and the chances 0.10, 0.09, 0.81), the average power is 52.3.

6. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by Aviator Zero
@SnorlaxMonster, you incorrectly edited Triple Kick's info on Multi-hit Move. 60 is most certainly NOT the average power of the move. It's not even an average to begin with. That's the max power the move can attain, and has a 72.9% chance of happening (0.9 x 0.9 x 0.9). You changed what I had defined Average Power to be for Triple Kick: "*For Triple Kick, Average Power calculates the average total amount of damage from the chance and power of hitting once, twice, or three times, if the move hits in the first place." ...to something entirely different.

You also misunderstood Effective Power. Due to Triple Kick's complex calculation, its EP is not simply AP times Accuracy (as is the case with the other multi-hit moves). Since I needed a friggin' graphing calculator to do the required function*, Triple Kick's EP should be defined as such.

*FYI, if you know these calculators, I can tell you what I did. I put 0, 10, 30, and 60 (the powers) in a list in that order. I then put 0.10, 0.09, 0.081, and 0.729 (their corresponding chances of happening) in another list, in order. Using the 1-Var Stats function, the calculator gave me 47.07 as the average power considering the chance of missing on the first turn. Not considering that (i.e., removing 0 power and its 10% chance, leaving the powers 10, 30, and 60, and the chances 0.10, 0.09, 0.81), the average power is 52.3.
The idea is that the average power should not take into account missing, so it should be assumed the move hits each time, which will always result in a power of 60 due to hits of 10, 20, and 30. This is necessary as it is consistent with the other multi-hit moves, where their average power does not take missing into account. When you include missing, it means it is only correct when the attack has an accuracy modification of 0 and the target has an evasion modification of 0, the user has not taken aim, and no Pokemon has No Guard. Simply calculating the average power when you assume the first doesn't miss but the others can... seems strange to me.

The definition of effective power I provided for Triple Kick seems correct to me. All you've done is take into account all 3 accuracy checks.

You don't need a graphics calculator to do it either (although I have one). All you would do is find
<code>(0*0.1)+(10*0.9*0.1)+(30*0.9*0.9*0.1)+(60*0.9*0.9*0.9)</code>
which results in 47.07

To get your 52.3, it would be
<code>(10*0.1)+(30*0.9*0.1)+(60*0.9*0.9)</code>

7. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Leaf has an overworld sprite for emerald but her page doesn't have any other info on emerald

8. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare
Leaf has an overworld sprite for emerald but her page doesn't have any other info on emerald
She has a sprite in Emerald for the Union Room. Aside from connecting to FRLG, she's not in Emerald.

9. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by Werdnae
Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare
Leaf has an overworld sprite for emerald but her page doesn't have any other info on emerald
She has a sprite in Emerald for the Union Room. Aside from connecting to FRLG, she's not in Emerald.
And what about "Red"? Is his sprite in there too?

10. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by xrick
And what about "Red"? Is his sprite in there too?
Yes, he would have a sprite for there as well.

Also, I'm not mistaken, neither Leaf nor Red have these sprites in Ruby or Sapphire - Red becomes Brendan and Leaf becomes May, since FRLG were released after RS but before Emerald. I could be wrong on this point though.

11. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Cheren's Memory Link battles are "incorrect"

You have his monkey being weak to his starter, and while that actually should be what it is based on B/W, as you can see in this video, Cheren's actually using the monkey that's stronger. Serebii also reports this order.

12. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

An old and a reccurring error, it's not mentioned in Shadow Ball article's page, Anime move errors page and Harley's page that Ariados cannot learn Shadow Ball.

13. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf
An old and a reccurring error, it's not mentioned in Shadow Ball article's page, Anime move errors page and Harley's page that Ariados cannot learn Shadow Ball.

14. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

1. The games refer to Multi-hit moves as "multi-strike moves." (See the description for Skill Link.) Should the page be renamed to "Multi-strike moves"?

2. Please do not revert any changes I make to the pages of each multi-hit move. I'm painstakingly making them into a standardized format.

15. ## Re: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Originally Posted by Aviator Zero
1. The games refer to Multi-hit moves as "multi-strike moves." (See the description for Skill Link.) Should the page be renamed to "Multi-strike moves"?
Yes, we should use official terms. Thanks for finding it.

2. Please do not revert any changes I make to the pages of each multi-hit move. I'm painstakingly making them into a standardized format.
I noticed you said this before as well. If your edits are unnecessary or false, they will be reverted regardless of whether or not you want them to be. Even if they are reverted, it is still extremely easy to get them back since page histories are stored.

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