Notability of IQ skills

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Thread: Notability of IQ skills

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    Default Notability of IQ skills

    Bulbapedia currently has very little good info on MD and MD2, especially when it comes to IQ skills. Three sysops have claimed that IQ skills are not notable, while I contend that they are at least as notable as abilities.

    Now, these three sysops have been preventing me from making a significant addition to Bulbapedia, and have reverted virtually all of my partial work. One even claimed that it's because every Pokémon can learn every IQ skill, which a quick Serebii check will show you that it is false.

    My question to the community: do you think IQ skills are notable?

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    notable? yes.
    but, do they deserve their own page like an ability? no.
    they are not mainstream games, and therefor,
    one page is enough.

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    We never said they weren't notable. We said that they should all go on the same page. Mystery Dungeon 2 is not a main series game, it just doesn't get the kind of amount of articles as say Diamond and Pearl do. But that doesn't mean we can't have the information. We have specified an area for the information you want, but you insist that all the IQ skills go on seperate articles; however, they aren't notable enough to be seperated like that. They all can and will go on the IQ page under IQ skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moldy Orange View Post
    We never said they weren't notable. We said that they should all go on the same page. Mystery Dungeon 2 is not a main series game, it just doesn't get the kind of amount of articles as say Diamond and Pearl do. But that doesn't mean we can't have the information. We have specified an area for the information you want, but you insist that all the IQ skills go on seperate articles; however, they aren't notable enough to be seperated like that. They all can and will go on the IQ page under IQ skills.
    That's funny, you were implying in an earlier discussion that you didn't want it. Okay. Fine.

    Tell me why they are not notable enough to have their own page. I remain unconvinced without evidence.

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    they are not main series games. if those articles were notable enough, we would have already made the articles. theyre simply isnt any useful purpose to giving each IQ its own page.

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    So Bulbapedia exhibits systematic bias that disadvantages MD and MD2. Duly noted. You could have just simply posted something that says "we don't do MD".

    I also question whether you really want 65-odd rows on a single page, with as much data as I can cram...

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    youre putting words in my mouth.
    we do indeed carry info on MD games, but, as for bias. possibly, yes.
    they dont carry the same weight the main games do.

    as for 65 rows of stuff, i cant comment as i dont play MD games.

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    There's things that don't have their own pages that are more notable than individiual IQ skills. If we were to give individiual IQ skills their own pages, then we should give articles to every single Pokémon every anime rival's been shown to have (a Gary's Skarmory article would be really crappy) including Butch and Cassidy, each of the 50 Battle CDs from Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness, each of the individual Battle-e cards (which are in the process of being merged into articles about the packs), each different print of a TCG card, every single anime voice actor, and so on and so forth.

    It's not that we don't want to include Mystery Dungeon information, but insisting that the Super Mobile IQ skill is more notable than Kenny's Alakazam is taking things a bit too far. A list of IQ skills for Mystery Dungeon 2 along the same lines as the one for Mystery Dungeon 1, one after the other, should provide the perfect coverage for IQ skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiningpikablu252 View Post
    There's things that don't have their own pages that are more notable than individiual IQ skills. If we were to give individiual IQ skills their own pages, then we should give articles to every single Pokémon every anime rival's been shown to have (a Gary's Skarmory article would be really crappy) including Butch and Cassidy, each of the 50 Battle CDs from Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness, each of the individual Battle-e cards (which are in the process of being merged into articles about the packs), each different print of a TCG card, every single anime voice actor, and so on and so forth.
    You are comparing apples and oranges here. Abilities are a game mechanic, so are IQ skills. How you determine whether anime character X's Pokémon is more notable than some game mechanic will always be subjective. I'd suggest that you compare apples to apples here. I remain unconvinced that IQ skills are not notable enough to warrant their own articles.

    But still, I find it ironic that there's a project on Bulbapedia to include every single one-time appearance throwaway character which has some serious momentum while you are claiming this.

    It's not that we don't want to include Mystery Dungeon information, but insisting that the Super Mobile IQ skill is more notable than Kenny's Alakazam is taking things a bit too far. A list of IQ skills for Mystery Dungeon 2 along the same lines as the one for Mystery Dungeon 1, one after the other, should provide the perfect coverage for IQ skills.
    Really? Let's see, such a table would require the name in multiple languages, the flavor text, the minimum IQ required in stars and points, a listing of which groups get the IQ skill, whether the ability can be disabled, and a description of their effects (about as detailed as Aggressor - "While this skill is active, attack and special attack is raised one stage while defense and special defense is lowered one stage" or Sharpshooter - "While this skill is active, the critical hit rate for all moves by this Pokémon is raised 15%. Does not stack with Scope Lens, but stacks with Super Luck, Patsy Band, and Type-Advantage Master."). I highly doubt that would be "perfect".

    Then again, since you are a sysop, and you have the power of making actual edits without having them get reverted at the drop of a hat, prove it. Make such a table containing all 65-odd IQ skills as I described it. Then argue why it should be the way it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelvSYC View Post
    Then again, since you are a sysop, and you have the power of making actual edits without having them get reverted at the drop of a hat, prove it. Make such a table containing all 65-odd IQ skills as I described it. Then argue why it should be the way it is.
    You obviously know exactly what you want in this table. Why don't you make it... under the IQ skills section on the IQ page where it belongs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelvSYC View Post
    Really? Let's see, such a table would require the name in multiple languages, the flavor text, the minimum IQ required in stars and points, a listing of which groups get the IQ skill, whether the ability can be disabled, and a description of their effects (about as detailed as Aggressor - "While this skill is active, attack and special attack is raised one stage while defense and special defense is lowered one stage" or Sharpshooter - "While this skill is active, the critical hit rate for all moves by this Pokémon is raised 15%. Does not stack with Scope Lens, but stacks with Super Luck, Patsy Band, and Type-Advantage Master."). I highly doubt that would be "perfect".
    In multiple languages? Dude, we don't have to have its name in every language on the damn page. You want every page to consist of an infobox, a description, and a LIST OF LANGUAGES? That's not a page, that's something that belongs in a list.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelvSYC View Post
    Then again, since you are a sysop, and you have the power of making actual edits without having them get reverted at the drop of a hat, prove it. Make such a table containing all 65-odd IQ skills as I described it. Then argue why it should be the way it is.
    Why has Yami Takashi's whine taken over everyone on this wiki? Honestly. Try and make an edit on Wikipedia and then come crying to us when they revert you for being unsourced. When you're concentrating on style and not having a bunch of crappy stubs lying around everywhere, you can't let kids who have NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING just go off and do whatever they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moldy Orange View Post
    You obviously know exactly what you want in this table. Why don't you make it... under the IQ skills section on the IQ page where it belongs.
    I can't – because apparently on Bulbapedia a regular user can't make an edit without the explicit approval of a sysop, it seems. Because of boneheaded admin decisions like not allowing edits in User space, I can't even make a simple sandbox that will allow me to experiment on a private branch. Now you on the other hand are an admin, and since admin = god here, maybe you should do it since it's guaranteed to not get reverted. Since you can do that, maybe you can tell us how it turns out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTEchidna View Post
    In multiple languages? Dude, we don't have to have its name in every language on the damn page. You want every page to consist of an infobox, a description, and a LIST OF LANGUAGES? That's not a page, that's something that belongs in a list.
    Did I say a list of languages? The infobox has English and Japanese - that should tide people over. I'd argue that a page would have the infobox, a description, and a list of Pokémon who can learn the IQ skill (for convenience, since that's derived from IQ groups). This is pretty much what a page on an ability has.

    Why has Yami Takashi's whine taken over everyone on this wiki? Honestly. Try and make an edit on Wikipedia and then come crying to us when they revert you for being unsourced. When you're concentrating on style and not having a bunch of crappy stubs lying around everywhere, you can't let kids who have NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING just go off and do whatever they want.
    The problem is that the way thing are, Bulbapedia is not a wiki. Admins are accountable to no one. On WP, you have AFD to argue whether a page is worthy of inclusion. Here, the only discussion we have is after an admin deletes something and people make an uproar. With that kind of "admin == god" attitude, it's a big disincentive to contribute.

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    Since about half of them are essentially learned by everyone, unlike the moves, I don't think it's worth it.

    We're definitely accountable. TOW's AfD is bureaucracy out of control, and they only do it because they don't have enough admins to get to everything and make an educated decision fast enough. Plus, admins use it as their own personal vendetta machine.

    Plus, yes, let's have an AfD on every damn fancharacter some idiot kid decides to make a page on. Watch as Bulbapedia turns into the mess TOW has. But if you think you can make a good article on some crap from a side game (which, again, since it's not a main series game, you can see why no one's made any effort towards it), go for it. Set up one of these IQ skills as a test to see what it'd look like. Set it up as a subpage of yours. If it looks like enough information that can't just be put on a separate page (such as the abilities, which don't have these groups like the IQ skills do), it'd be good to go. And an infobox that would go with can just be added later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelvSYC View Post
    I can't – because apparently on Bulbapedia a regular user can't make an edit without the explicit approval of a sysop, it seems. Because of boneheaded admin decisions like not allowing edits in User space, I can't even make a simple sandbox that will allow me to experiment on a private branch. Now you on the other hand are an admin, and since admin = god here, maybe you should do it since it's guaranteed to not get reverted. Since you can do that, maybe you can tell us how it turns out.
    See, things like this represent a blatant disregard or a good chunk of what Bulbapedia is. The userspace was locked with good reason because people were working on their userpages infinitely more than they were on the actual articles. As far as a sandbox goes, that's unfortunate, but unnecessary; you may as well use the main one for any experiments. And I don't think I need to point what's wrong with that last statement. Our admins' edits, like those of our other good users, tend not to get reverted because they're good edits. If they do get reverted, the people in question will open a dialogue ad try to come to a consensus. It doesn't always work, but it's better than clicking the "undo" button every ten seconds.

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