Demographics - Official Count

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  1. #1
    베베 미뇽 βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη's Avatar
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    Default Demographics - Official Count

    Okay, so...

    I'm known as Han Ji-Wan for Bulba-Wiki. I had a major argument with another user (I'm not telling who though, I want to respect the user) on Bulba-Wiki. I would like to hear from you guys about the Demographics.

    Enough introduction... Here's the questions.

    For the demographics for every cities and towns.

    Should the player characters and rivals be counted in their hometowns? Even though they're away on their journeys?

    -My opinion: I said yes. WHY? Because I was following the US Census Bureau's guidelines. This is what they said on their website:
    "1.PEOPLE AWAY ON VACATION OR BUSINESS People temporarily away on vacation or a business trip on Census Day - Counted at their usual residence, that is, the place where they live and sleep most of the time."
    -The other user's opinion: Said no. This is where I fail to understand why they shouldn't be counted. The user does not have supporting facts.

    So... I would like to hear from you guys. Do you support my opinion. Do you have an argument against my opinion? Please, tell me.
    다시 니 품에 안기고 싶은 나
    dashi ni poome angigo shipeun na
    고개숙였어 입을 막아 버렸어
    gogaesookyeosseo ipeul maka beoryeosseo

    아직아닌가봐 잊지 못했나봐
    ajikaningabwa itji mothaettnabwa
    내맘이 널 가슴이 널 놓치 못했나봐
    naemami neol gaseumi neol nohji mothaettnabwa
    그리웠었나봐 잡고 싶었나봐
    geuriweosseottnabwa japgo shipeottnabwa
    그날의 널 사랑한 널 보낼수가 없었나봐
    geunaleui neol saranghan neol bonaelsuga eopseottnabwa

  2. #2
    Fish fingers and custard Werdnae's Avatar Former Bulbapedia Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    The main issue I see is that your way means that we are counting the player and rival, but not all the other travelling trainers. The way I see it there are two numbers when it comes to population. Overall population and the permanent population. The overall population includes those, like you said, that still consider a place their home, but are not there at the moment. The permanent population can be considered the number of people who are in the town at the time. For consistency we use the second one as we can't include some people (the player and rival) but not others (every other trainer). Including the player and rival in the population counts would be like taking a Census and then picking a small number of people who were "away from home" for the Census and including them in their home's population, but not everyone else that was.

    As I'm seing it, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of consistency.
    Thanks Jo The Marten for the avatar.
    Demons run when a good man goes to war.
    Night will fall and drown the sun,
    when a good man goes to war.
    Friendship dies and true love lies,
    night will fall and the dark will rise,
    when a good man goes to war.
    Demons run, but count the cost.
    The battle's won, but the child is lost.

  3. #3
    베베 미뇽 βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη's Avatar
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Okay, so, you're saying that the players and rivals are basically like the trainers found in routes. The trainers are not included in the population count because they're not in a city or town because they're in a route. Is that what you're trying to say?

    So... How do we handle this? Should we also count trainers outside of towns and cities? That's an idea.
    다시 니 품에 안기고 싶은 나
    dashi ni poome angigo shipeun na
    고개숙였어 입을 막아 버렸어
    gogaesookyeosseo ipeul maka beoryeosseo

    아직아닌가봐 잊지 못했나봐
    ajikaningabwa itji mothaettnabwa
    내맘이 널 가슴이 널 놓치 못했나봐
    naemami neol gaseumi neol nohji mothaettnabwa
    그리웠었나봐 잡고 싶었나봐
    geuriweosseottnabwa japgo shipeottnabwa
    그날의 널 사랑한 널 보낼수가 없었나봐
    geunaleui neol saranghan neol bonaelsuga eopseottnabwa

  4. #4
    Canadian Sweetheart Pokemaster97's Avatar Bulbanews WriterArchives StaffBulbapedia Staff
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    I don't now about counting all the trainers outside of the city but The rival and player character should be counted. They still live at the town but they are not there at the moment. It's proved because if you look inside of the house there rooms are still in tact. I think that the people who live there, but are not currently there should be counted. Maybe not for all, but at least towns like Pallet, Littleroot, New bark, and Twinleaf.

  5. #5
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    I really don't mind if you mention me. It's on my talk page anyway, so any random person can see it any way.

    Here is the debate on my talk page

    As you can see, I believe that the player and rival should not be included in the population count, since they "move out" when they set off on their journey. According to the source you provided:

    1.PEOPLE AWAY ON VACATION OR BUSINESS People temporarily away on vacation or a business trip on Census Day - Counted at their usual residence, that is, the place where they live and sleep most of the time.
    They are not temporarily away, they are permanently gone, and they rarely (if at all) live and sleep there. There are several other Trainers who mention their hometown, but it is their hometown, not their place of residence. If anything, in Platinum, I would consider the player to live in the Resort Area, but even then...

  6. #6
    Canadian Sweetheart Pokemaster97's Avatar Bulbanews WriterArchives StaffBulbapedia Staff
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    They really don't live anywhere else so they really didn't Move out. They left all of there stuff.

  7. #7
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Exactly, they have no residence. They are traveling Trainers, nomads. And the only stuff that isn't in the bag on on the PC is stuff that would be impractical to take - Video game console, TV, bed, rug

  8. #8
    베베 미뇽 βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη's Avatar
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    I really don't mind if you mention me. It's on my talk page anyway, so any random person can see it any way.

    Here is the debate on my talk page

    As you can see, I believe that the player and rival should not be included in the population count, since they "move out" when they set off on their journey. According to the source you provided:



    They are not temporarily away, they are permanently gone, and they rarely (if at all) live and sleep there. There are several other Trainers who mention their hometown, but it is their hometown, not their place of residence. If anything, in Platinum, I would consider the player to live in the Resort Area, but even then...
    The mothers for each home towns let players rest, don't they? Correct me if I'm wrong. They're not really gone, permanently, actually. They're on a journey. Once they complete their journey, the players may go back to their hometown. I don't know. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaster97 View Post
    They really don't live anywhere else so they really didn't Move out. They left all of there stuff.
    You do have a point.

    EDIT:

    Exactly, they have no residence. They are traveling Trainers, nomads. And the only stuff that isn't in the bag on on the PC is stuff that would be impractical to take - Video game console, TV, bed, rug
    Okay. That's an acceptable answer. However, where do they reside in? Here's the website. Read it. Perhaps, it will help you understand.
    http://www.census.gov/population/www/censusdata/resid_rules.html#becount
    다시 니 품에 안기고 싶은 나
    dashi ni poome angigo shipeun na
    고개숙였어 입을 막아 버렸어
    gogaesookyeosseo ipeul maka beoryeosseo

    아직아닌가봐 잊지 못했나봐
    ajikaningabwa itji mothaettnabwa
    내맘이 널 가슴이 널 놓치 못했나봐
    naemami neol gaseumi neol nohji mothaettnabwa
    그리웠었나봐 잡고 싶었나봐
    geuriweosseottnabwa japgo shipeottnabwa
    그날의 널 사랑한 널 보낼수가 없었나봐
    geunaleui neol saranghan neol bonaelsuga eopseottnabwa

  9. #9
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummy Spider View Post
    The mothers for each home towns let players rest, don't they? Correct me if I'm wrong. They're not really gone, permanently, actually. They're on a journey. Once they complete their journey, the players may go back to their hometown. I don't know. :/
    I don't think that this is the kind of journey that gets completed. Even after you beat the league, you don't stay home. Three years after setting out on his journey, Red still isn't living at home. When you do a population count in HGSS, do you count Red and Blue as a residents of Pallet Town? Anyway, you can rest at various other places too (ships, Team Galactic HQ, etc.). And Johto mother doesn't let you rest.

    Okay. That's an acceptable answer. However, where do they reside in? Here's the website. Read it. Perhaps, it will help you understand.
    http://www.census.gov/population/www/censusdata/resid_rules.html#becount
    I would consider the player this:
    PEOPLE WITHOUT HOUSING

    People without a usual residence - Counted where they are staying on Census Day.

  10. #10
    베베 미뇽 βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη's Avatar
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    I don't think that this is the kind of journey that gets completed. Even after you beat the league, you don't stay home. Three years after setting out on his journey, Red still isn't living at home. When you do a population count in HGSS, do you count Red and Blue as a residents of Pallet Town? Anyway, you can rest at various other places too (ships, Team Galactic HQ, etc.). And Johto mother doesn't let you rest.
    That's true, didn't think about that.

    I would consider the player this:
    Alright, where do we count them in, then? The player can be anywhere. Should I do a region demographics for the trainers outside of towns and cities?
    다시 니 품에 안기고 싶은 나
    dashi ni poome angigo shipeun na
    고개숙였어 입을 막아 버렸어
    gogaesookyeosseo ipeul maka beoryeosseo

    아직아닌가봐 잊지 못했나봐
    ajikaningabwa itji mothaettnabwa
    내맘이 널 가슴이 널 놓치 못했나봐
    naemami neol gaseumi neol nohji mothaettnabwa
    그리웠었나봐 잡고 싶었나봐
    geuriweosseottnabwa japgo shipeottnabwa
    그날의 널 사랑한 널 보낼수가 없었나봐
    geunaleui neol saranghan neol bonaelsuga eopseottnabwa

  11. #11
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    We don't need to include every Trainer in a town. There are people on Routes and in caves everywhere. I would say that a region demographic would be OK, but it would be far too easy to miscount, so is simply not practical.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Hmm. I would record it as N inhabitants (plus Red and Blue, currently away). I also would record the populations of the various routes.

  13. #13
    베베 미뇽 βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη's Avatar
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    We don't need to include every Trainer in a town. There are people on Routes and in caves everywhere. I would say that a region demographic would be OK, but it would be far too easy to miscount, so is simply not practical.
    It might be easy to miscount. But there's always double-checking. And triple-checking. Plus, I wouldn't do it all at once. I'd do it for each locations. And THEN add all the locations. Not that hard.
    다시 니 품에 안기고 싶은 나
    dashi ni poome angigo shipeun na
    고개숙였어 입을 막아 버렸어
    gogaesookyeosseo ipeul maka beoryeosseo

    아직아닌가봐 잊지 못했나봐
    ajikaningabwa itji mothaettnabwa
    내맘이 널 가슴이 널 놓치 못했나봐
    naemami neol gaseumi neol nohji mothaettnabwa
    그리웠었나봐 잡고 싶었나봐
    geuriweosseottnabwa japgo shipeottnabwa
    그날의 널 사랑한 널 보낼수가 없었나봐
    geunaleui neol saranghan neol bonaelsuga eopseottnabwa

  14. #14
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpes View Post
    Hmm. I would record it as N inhabitants (plus Red and Blue, currently away). I also would record the populations of the various routes.
    I agree with that. Generally it is "Town has a population of N (excluding the player and rival)"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummy Spider View Post
    It might be easy to miscount. But there's always double-checking. And triple-checking. Plus, I wouldn't do it all at once. I'd do it for each locations. And THEN add all the locations. Not that hard.
    I guess if you did it that way... but then, you have to include Trainers who are traveling the region as well. If you think you can do it, I guess you should try.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Demographics - Official Count

    Two things, first:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gummy Spider View Post
    I'm known as Han Ji-Wan for Bulba-Wiki.
    Why not have the same username all over Bulbagarden? Then you're easier to keep track of, and we'll know who's who between the forums and wikis. Your name can be changed... once we fix CentralAuth, which broke... again. Damn load balancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    I agree with that. Generally it is "Town has a population of N (excluding the player and rival)"
    If a town had a population of only N, I can see that being a messed-up little town... the guy's obviously kookoo.

    Anyway, as for the topic at hand, as long as it's mentioned for the hometowns in the game that the player and any rivals are or are not part of the count, it doesn't really matter. As long as it's consistent, and as long as, say, Barry isn't counted in Survival Area accidentally since he's there for the rest of the game (at least in Pt).

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