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Thread: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

  1. #121
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    I am not familiar with the site, and I'm very wary of allowing fansite articles created by the fansite's webmaster. But on the flip side, the longer the article stands after being created this way, the less deleting it should be an option.

    Relatedly, can we PLEASE ban Spyspotter from any and all fandom-related articles? He's going to give me an aneurysm at this rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  2. #122
    The Sworn Brothers Adyniz's Avatar Archives StaffBulbapedia Staff
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    While I do not have enough knowledge on the subject but as far as I can tell from looking at the article, I do not see a good reason to get rid off it... 'I have never heard of it' does not justify the deletion.

    A helpful article... No objections there.

    Moving) Scalchop to Scalchop and seamitar
    Split? No. Move? Yes. I was wondering about the uppercase 's' in seamitar but it has already been brought up (and resolved) on the talk page.

    Splitting) Game Freak's In the game content splitting off into GAME FREAK (Trainer class).
    Makes sense. A note on top of the main GF article, like we usually do, would be helpful once the GF Trainer Class has its own article.

  3. #123
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Deletion) We All Live in a Pokémon World…
    At the very least, it's a very long-running fansite. It was last updated this August.

    On the other hand, it's a fansite nobody seems to have heard of that had its article created by its webmaster. I'm leaning towards delete for that reason alone.

    I think the reason they are separate is because they don't fit on one page due to too many templates. I don't understand why they're full party templates though: they should just be the regular Trainer lists you see on Trainer class articles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    I never intended this page for the mainspace, but I've cleaned it up to make it more appropriate for it. If people want it in the mainspace, go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Moving) Scalchop to Scalchop and seamitar
    I proposed this one in the first place, so I'm for it. They are very similar objects, which is why I don't think a split would be appropriate. However, since they are both on the same page, it doesn't really work when the seamitar is not acknow

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Splitting) Game Freak's In the game content splitting off into GAME FREAK (Trainer class).
    Another one that I proposed. Game Freak is a company, and I think we should avoid mixing real world things with in-game things as much as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Figment View Post
    Relatedly, can we PLEASE ban Spyspotter from any and all fandom-related articles? He's going to give me an aneurysm at this rate.
    He's permanently banned from everything.

  4. #124
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Fansite article created by its webmaster I think shoudl be ground for deletion when the article is relatively new. At this point, when the article has been around for year (there's an edit by TTE in the edit history), with several others contributing to the article, I think we have moved beyond "article by the webmaster of the site in question". At least as a decisive argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  5. #125
    追放されたバカ Spyspotter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Figment View Post
    Fansite article created by its webmaster I think shoudl be ground for deletion when the article is relatively new. At this point, when the article has been around for year (there's an edit by TTE in the edit history), with several others contributing to the article, I think we have moved beyond "article by the webmaster of the site in question". At least as a decisive argument.
    Wikipedia doesn't allow this garbage and neither should we. If the fansiite was really notable, someone other than the webmaster would've thought to create it. I'd say delete it, but if someone other than the webmaster recreates it, then we should keep it.

  6. #126
    Moderator Maverick Nate's Avatar Bulbanews Senior WriterBulbapedia Editorial BoardModerator
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyspotter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Figment View Post
    Fansite article created by its webmaster I think shoudl be ground for deletion when the article is relatively new. At this point, when the article has been around for year (there's an edit by TTE in the edit history), with several others contributing to the article, I think we have moved beyond "article by the webmaster of the site in question". At least as a decisive argument.
    Wikipedia doesn't allow this garbage and neither should we. If the fansiite was really notable, someone other than the webmaster would've thought to create it. I'd say delete it, but if someone other than the webmaster recreates it, then we should keep it.
    I don't like this argument simply because for most websites, the webmaster will be the only person who will care enough to write an article. I've been watching how users work for the past six years. Most of the stuff we do is because it needs to be done, and it takes a lot of pulling teeth to get people to write something as involved as an article for a fansite whose popularity was from a decade ago. Most of the time, it would take getting a person who was around back then, and that is significantly harder to do. The webmaster wrote the article pretty objectively and well, in my opinion, and, as Figgy said since it isn't just the webmaster anymore, shouldn't be grounds for deletion now. Looking at it from an article standpoint, I think it should stay.

  7. #127
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Indeed, what Nate said.

    The fact is, ultimately coverage of the fandom is a goal of Bulbapedia, and we want that section expanded, not reduced (despite your best efforts in the other direction, Spyspotter). Yes, we want to prevent rampant advertising, which is why a general rule against creating your own article exists, as the default policy. But in cases where the article detail a site with a long history (13 years in this case), and the article itself is now several years old, enforcing that rule would be counter-productive.

    Wikipedia and Bulbapedia are two different sites, and while there's a lot they share, they have noteworthy differences in what they aim to do. It would be a mistake to think that any policy Wiki makes can be applied to BP without tweaking and exceptions.
    Last edited by Evil Figment; 14th September 2013 at 06:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  8. #128
    追放されたバカ Spyspotter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyspotter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Figment View Post
    Fansite article created by its webmaster I think shoudl be ground for deletion when the article is relatively new. At this point, when the article has been around for year (there's an edit by TTE in the edit history), with several others contributing to the article, I think we have moved beyond "article by the webmaster of the site in question". At least as a decisive argument.
    Wikipedia doesn't allow this garbage and neither should we. If the fansiite was really notable, someone other than the webmaster would've thought to create it. I'd say delete it, but if someone other than the webmaster recreates it, then we should keep it.
    I don't like this argument simply because for most websites, the webmaster will be the only person who will care enough to write an article. I've been watching how users work for the past six years. Most of the stuff we do is because it needs to be done, and it takes a lot of pulling teeth to get people to write something as involved as an article for a fansite whose popularity was from a decade ago. Most of the time, it would take getting a person who was around back then, and that is significantly harder to do. The webmaster wrote the article pretty objectively and well, in my opinion, and, as Figgy said since it isn't just the webmaster anymore, shouldn't be grounds for deletion now. Looking at it from an article standpoint, I think it should stay.
    If that's REALLY how much people care to write articles, than Bulbapedia has turned to garbage. And based on the "no Wikipedia" thing, I suppose we should allow vandalism too.

    P. S. Can you please unblock Spyspotter? I've heard he's a good guy.

  9. #129
    追放されたバカ Spyspotter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Figment View Post
    Indeed, what Nate said.

    The fact is, ultimately coverage of the fandom is a goal of Bulbapedia, and we want that section expanded, not reduced (despite your best efforts in the other direction, Spyspotter). Yes, we want to prevent rampant advertising, which is why a general rule against creating your own article exists, as the default policy. But in cases where the article detail a site with a long history (13 years in this case), and the article itself is now several years old, enforcing that rule would be counter-productive.

    Wikipedia and Bulbapedia are two different sites, and while there's a lot they share, they have noteworthy differences in what they aim to do. It would be a mistake to think that any policy Wiki makes can be applied to BP without tweaking and exceptions.
    Sorry for double posting, error on my computer.

    STILL. Just because an article exists, no matter how old it is, is not justification for deletion. Wikipedia recently found a hoax article from several years back. Do you think Wikipedia kept that article because it existed for a long time?

  10. #130
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Again, we are not Wikipedia. They make their own policies based on their own end goals, we make our own policies based on our own end goals. Sometimes, like vandalism, they might match. Others, they might not. It doesn't matter whether they do or not: whether Wikipedia does something or not just isn't relevant to whether or not we do it.

    So, from the perspective of Bulbagarden's end goals, where do we stand on that article? What would deleting it achieve? Very little. Any damage it would do in terms of encouraging webmasters to create article on their own sites was done long ago. It wouldn't remove false information, and notability is notably hard to establish when it comes to fandom (see also: that time you tried to get Archaic's article deleted for not being notable), so it wouldn't remove OBVIOUSLY non-notable (in terms of fandom) information.

    What would deletign the information cost us? It would remove coverage of a long-lasting part of the fandom, and an article on which several Bulbapedia members have worked over the years, including some past Editors in Chief.

    The cost is far greather than the benefits, here. This article is more useful to us alive than dead. So we keep it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  11. #131
    追放されたバカ Spyspotter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    The thing is, it's an obscure article. Check what links to it.

  12. #132
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    It's the nature of the fandom section that few articles will link to and from them, except for the most visible areas, and especially when dealing with history of the fandom, we WILL be dealing with obscure topics.

    The bottom line is, this is part of a topic we want to increase, not decrease our coverage of. It's not obviously non-notable (compared to other topics of that section), so again, why the hell would we delete it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  13. #133
    追放されたバカ Spyspotter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    As a wiki, Bulbapedia is always evolving. That doesn't just mean adding new information, it means removing useless information too. And that website was not really a part of the fandom considering its popularity, but we can never be sure until we have a fansite notability policy.

    Let's see what the others think. @MAGNEDETH @Werdnae @Kogoro @Zesty Cactus @Kenji-girl @Jo The Marten

  14. #134
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    it means removing useless information too.
    True, but :

    this is part of a topic we want to increase, not decrease our coverage of. It's not obviously non-notable
    Covering part of a topic which we want to cover, is a use. Therefore, not useless.

    Considering, again, that you tried to delete the article on Archaic, and are perma-banned from Bulbapedia, I'm going to go on a limb and say that your perception of what is useful/useless to pedia is very, very, very, very at odds with that of the Bulbagarden staff.
    Last edited by Evil Figment; 17th September 2013 at 05:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  15. #135
    Moderator Maverick Nate's Avatar Bulbanews Senior WriterBulbapedia Editorial BoardModerator
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    09/13/13 topics:
    1)Deletion: We all live in a Pokémon World... had its tag removed for it is notable enough
    2)Merge: Cipher Peons in Pokémon Colosseum and Cipher Peons in Pokémon XD were not merged into Cipher Peon (Trainer class), for the amount of templates would exceed the page limitations
    3)Mainspacing: User:SnorlaxMonster/Permanently missable items was mainspaced
    4)Moving: Scalchop was moved to Scalchop and seamitar
    5)Splitting: Game Freak's In the game content was split off to GAME FREAK (Trainer class).

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    It honestly doesn't seem necessary. Any exclusive information can really be put into the Team Rocket page anyway, but it seems to just be copied information from the mains articles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Agree. We don't really need something that is essentially beta to not be fully on the beta page. Beta pages are naturally hard to fill anyway, We shouldn't be breaking them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    I think this page is a really good idea, but it'll take some additional research when it enters the mainspace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Moving) Version-exclusive Pokémon to Game-exclusive Pokémon
    No longer called versions. Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Splitting) Status ailment splitting into Status problem and Battle status.
    According to the games, they are called Status problems anyway. This one should be done.
    Last edited by Maverick Nate; 21st September 2013 at 06:44 AM.

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