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Thread: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

  1. #151

    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kogoro View Post
    On status problems/conditions/ailments:

    Just checked my guide books for Diamond & Pearl (Nintendo Power), Platinum, and Black & White (I also have the BW Pokédex guidebook). DP, BW, and the BW Pokédex all use "status conditions", while Pt uses "status ailments".
    Based on this, I think we should be referring to them as "status conditions".

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    I did a bit more investigating, and I think they should be merged. The game doesn't recognize the Warehouse as a location, for the most part. (Saving there lists the location as Veilstone City, while the only mention of the warehouse I could find was the storage key description that says "The key to Team Galactic's sinister warehouse located at the edge of Veilstone City."). It doesn't seem necessary to have it as a separate article.
    Last edited by Maverick Nate; 30th September 2013 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #152
    #1 Magnemite fan MAGNEDETH's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Topics of 09/27/2013:
    Delete Future generations of Pokémon

    Galactic Warehouse into Team Galactic HQ
    I'm a little iffy on this merge as they are different locations with different items and trainers. Technically though, if the game lists the warehouse simply as being in the city, then the warehouse should be merged with the city, and not the HQ.

    Mainspace User:Abcboy/sandbox/Heavy rain and User:Abcboy/sandbox/Intense sunlight (and then get to work on the rest of the weather)

    Version-exclusive Pokémon to Game-exclusive Pokémon, and as a similar idea Version-exclusive moves to Game-exclusive moves
    I would wait to move these until we have definitive confirmation that they are no longer using Version in everything, unless we already do, in which case a move may make sense.

    Status ailment splitting into Status problem and Battle status
    Splitting Battle Status off makes sense as none of them are even technically status ailments. Status Problem though, hard to say.

  3. #153

    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Deletion) Future Generations of Pokemon
    Delete - Page has started to become redundant as the differences between generations has been increasing. I do think there should be a page (and if I recall tehre is in the userspace somewhere) about Pokemon which debuted before their generation.

    Merging) Galactic Warehouse into Team Galactic HQ
    Merge, not valid enough to have its own page, however it may break the template limit on Team Galactic HQ, potentially.

    Mainspacing) User:Abcboy/sandbox/Heavy rain and User:Abcboy/sandbox/Intense sunlight
    To be honest I thought these already had been mainspaced...

    Moving) Version-exclusive Pokémon to Game-exclusive Pokémon, and as a similar idea Version-exclusive moves to Game-exclusive moves
    Agree with moving the moves to Game-exclusive, with the Pokemon though, split off M14 to M14, if the exclusivity was the same as that within the games I'd say keep it to show how its bled into the different medias, however since its not, send it off with a link to the game exclusive page in the paragraph after the heading. Again though with Pokemon it depends on what others want to do with this page in the future in reference to Nate's idea about expanding it. However perhaps that deserves its own page in and of it self. I've always called them game exclusive and not version exclusive. I'm for moving both of these and splitting M14 to M14. Also official name trumps, it always has, is why I moved a lot of the capitalisations from later generations.

    Splitting) Status ailment splitting into Status problem and Battle status
    Supoprt that a split must happen somewhere not sure as to the difference between volatile and volatile battle though.

  4. #154

    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    With both the HQ and Warehouse being connected, they should probably be merged. Especially since the Warehouse isn't recognized as a location by the game.

    Yes on mainspacing the weather pages, they look solid, should eventually have one for each type of weather.

    Yes on the status problem/battle status split. Maybe mention the status ailment in Pt part on the page in some way?

    version exclusive Pokemon/moves--> Game exclusive Pokemon/moves - I agree


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  5. #155
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Deputy Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Yeah, this page has had all its objective content moved to a better place. It's unnecessary and basically speculation now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    So I remember nominating this in the first place, but I wasn't sure that it was that good an idea upon seeing it here. However, I checked the talk page and reconvinced myself with my own old arguments:
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster
    Okay, here's an interesting quote (from the Prima guidebook): "The Galactic Warehouse and Galactic Veilstone Building in Veilstone City make up Team Galactic's headquarters." So what it's saying is that Galactic Warehouse + Galactic Veilstone Building = Team Galactic HQ. Therefore, we should merge this article into Team Galactic HQ (else rename it to "Galactic Veilstone Building" and give the underground corridor its own article due to being part of neither building).
    Save location also backs up this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Weather conditions should have their own pages, but I usually prefer to see them done as a set (or we end up with what happened when we made articles for status ailments and sleep got put off for months).

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Figment View Post
    We're not just a wiki for official nintendo information, but for everything about pokémon, including the fandom. What the fandom has called this for fifteen years, should not stop mattering because Nintendo decided to refer to them by another word on a single page.
    We do care about the fandom, but they are a secondary goal. Official trumps fandom: this was why happiness was moved to friendship, despite the fandom overwhelmingly referring to it as the former; of course, we don't ignore the fandom, and the popular fan name is noted in the introduction.

    What I think happened here, was that when the page was created, the intent was to have "Version" using its "official definition" in relation to the games. However, the instant anime information was added, it switched from an official use to a "practical use" utilizing the more general definition of version. Now, the move, I think, is trying to shove the general use back into an official use, and that's not working, and shouldn't work. I agree that the move shouldn't be done, and that no information should be removed. I'd honestly like to add some TCG information, because some Japanese sets release different packs for the same expansion (for instance, a Diamond pack and a Pearl pack) and there are some Pokémon cards that were only available in one of the two.
    Version is a poor word to describe exclusivity between the movies, and simply not applicable to exclusivity between TCG sets.

    Status ailment/condition
    I've got pages for parts of this, but they're not done, so I'd rather hold off a split.

    From text dumps, they are mainly "status problems" in HGSS with only one instance of "status changes", exclusively called "status problems" throughout FRLG, mainly "status problems" with one instance of "status changes" and two of "status abnormalities" in RS, mainly "status problems" with one instance of "status changes" in Crystal, "status changes" in RBY (although there are only 2 instances anyway). I don't have access to Gen V text dumps right now, but Veekun has them and I can go through them at a later time; I used to have text dumps for all the games saved, but I lost those back when my laptop crashed.

  6. #156
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    "Game-exclusive" is an even worse term to describe movie and the TCG, and not having an article that show how the concept has been applied in the different aspects of pokémon would just be a case of anal retentiveness over terminology causing us to lose worthwhile information. It would be a major mistake.

    Moreover, while I appreciate that we should gravitate toward official terms, that doesn't mean we should always slavishly rename article to whatever Nintendo happens to be using for a particular concept this week. I hate to break it to you SM, but Nintendo likely doesn't have a single term that they consider the right one, for this and for many other things. It's even demonstrable that official publications have called them status ailments, status conditions, status problems, which demonstrate that THERE IS NOT ONE OFFICIAL TERM. The same probably applies here. There probably isn't an internal memo at the Big N that says "From now on, we call it "Game Exclusive". For a start, that would be a moronic memo.

    "It's what Nintendo used in the latest document" = "It's the official term" isn't a sane policy; it's reading far more into a web site than what's actually there; just like shippers who see "hints" where there aren't any. You'd need repeated, sustained usage to demonstrate that this is THE term. Not a one-off case.

    We have zero basis to conclude that "game exclusive" is what Nintendo has settled on as "the" official term. The only thing we can state is that it's one term Nintendo has used to describe the concept.
    Last edited by Evil Figment; 3rd October 2013 at 06:13 PM.
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  7. #157
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    I've always wondered why we list the movie exclusive Pokémon on the Version exclusive page. If anything they should be on the M14 page (I was about to suggest that they have their own page, but since it was only once, I don't think its necessary). TCG exclusiveness should get their own page, if there is enough of them.

    Regarding official terms. I think any term that Game Freak uses should be used. I use Game Freak and not Nintendo because, you know, Game Freak are the ones that make the games. But like Figgy said, they sometimes use different terms, so it's a bit of a grey area. If there was a consistent usage of a term, then I'd say it would be logical to use them for our wiki (wasn't this the case for Friendship --> Happiness?).

    As for the other pages, (Galactic HQ, future Gen), I agree with what the others have said. I honestly can't add anything else to it.

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  8. #158
    Fish fingers and custard Werdnae's Avatar Former Bulbapedia Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    I haven't had time to consider any of the others, but my opinion on the exclusive Pokémon page is that it is about Pokémon which are exclusive to one version of a game. Note that it uses a lower case v whenever it doesn't start a sentence, version here is being used as a common noun (i.e. regular word) and not a Proper Noun (i.e. part of the name). X and Y are two versions of the same core game, the fact that they don't have it as part of their titles is irrelevant. In order to support this, I'd like to call attention to the Mystery Dungeon games. They do not have "Version" in their titles, and yet no-one has had any issue with them being on that page for the past six years.

    I disagree with the move, and I'd suggest that the efforts to completely expunge any usage of the word version are excessive. Just because it isn't part of the titles doesn't mean we can't use it as a word which is part of the English language.
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  9. #159

    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    10/04/2013 update: Future Generations of Pokémon was deleted; Galactic Warehouse merged; pages mainspaced; Version-exclusive pages had their tags removed; Status still on table

    New topics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    I don't agree with the reason why this was put up for deletion. It's an overview page. Yeah, we have those. I think it should stay (We might as well debate the page title name while we're here, though)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Seems fine to me. Both pages seem short enough for this to be acceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    I think @Zesty Cactus should have the final say in these. They look fine to me, and wouldn't mind them mainspaced, but if you have some notability standards, then by all means follow them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Moving) Hitmons to Tyrogue squadron
    I have never heard either of these names. Even though 'Tyrogue squadron' was mentioned once by an official printed source, it is no where near as official as 'Eeveelutions' is as a official nickname, and I don't mind it staying where it is.
    Last edited by Maverick Nate; 8th October 2013 at 11:24 PM.

  10. #160

    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Ataro said no to Snor having his own article last year so I believe that one is out. Aero originally had an article but was reverted to a redirect in 2009 so that one should be out too. I don't have a say with Blue's Rhydon or Agatha's Gengar being mainspaced.
    Last edited by Pattyman; 7th October 2013 at 07:50 PM. Reason: quote

  11. #161

    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    I agree with this and also suggest that the beta articles all be moved respectively. This is not my ideal solution however as I'd like to do complete article restructure for the lot of these,and it's on my todo list (low on my todo list). The overarching Development title i'd like to contain lists of examples of some commonly removed data. Different areas, missing weather, items, and only be linked by the navbox, but that's in the distant future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Agree with, kind of surprised that this hasn't been done already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    I think these should all be mainspaced personally, but it's up to Zesty to make the final decision. The only one I have any significant push for is Agatha's Gengar due to the sheer amount of media it has been depicted in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Moving) Hitmons to Tyrogue squadron
    I don't like this, I feel it's a terrible source and would much rather it stay at Hitmons. The names are obviously meant for wit and not officiality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    Splitting) Status ailment splitting into Status problem and Battle status (agreed upon, but names are still being debated)
    Supoprt that a split must happen somewhere not sure as to the difference between volatile and volatile battle though.

  12. #162
    #1 Magnemite fan MAGNEDETH's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Deletion) Beta Pokémon games
    As Nate said, theres no reason this should be deleted.

    Merging) List of natures in other languages into Nature
    merge it.

    Mainspacing) Various Manga Pokémon pages: ...
    Ask Zesty and other Manga readers.

    Moving) Hitmons to Tyrogue squadron
    a strategy guide for Stadium 2 is hardly concrete evidence. i say leave it.

  13. #163
    BattleFanatic Eitarou's Avatar Archives StaffBulbapedia Editorial BoardModerator
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Nate View Post
    For Gengar. No. It may be one of her main Pokemon, but it's not notable.

    That Blue's Rhydon article should be Silver's Rhyperior. It even says that it evolves and switches Trainers. I'm on the fence, really. I guess Zesty can decide.

    As for the last two, I asked Zesty (I think it was her) and the answer was no.

  14. #164
    This world is merciless Pokemaster97's Avatar Bulbanews Senior WriterArchives StaffBulbapedia StaffModerator
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    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    Deletion) Beta Pokémon games
    Keep, with the reasons stated above.

    Merging) List of natures in other languages into Nature
    It makes most sense to just merge them.

    Mainspacing) Various Manga Pokémon pages:
    Up to Zesty.

    Moving) Hitmons to Tyrogue squadron
    Don't move. An obscure game guide shouldn't be used as the sole piece of evidence supporting the other name.

  15. #165

    Default Re: Candidates for merging/moving/mainspacing/splitting discussion thread

    I guess I should make my opinions known.

    Move "Version-exclusive" to "Game-exclusive": Oppose. "Version" is the term used when a term needs to be used; the term has not been supplanted by the lack of its use in X/Y. However, it is not a proper noun; X and Y are two "versions" of the game as a whole, as are PMD Time/Darkness/Sky. While "Version" was capitalized in the titles of the first five generations, this is because it is part of a title, and normal English title capitalization rules apply.

    Beta Pokemon games: Keep. The betas do qualify as notable because they give us info on the development history.

    Move "Hitmons" to "Tyrogue squadron": Oppose. Not an official term, only mentioned in a game guide.

    Move "Effort values" to "Base stats" and move "Base stats" to another term: Leaning toward oppose, but let's wait until more of us have the game so we can make a decision. I made my point on the talk page: "Bulbapedia's policy has always been to only add 100% confirmed material, and the descriptions of the vitamins in generations III-V were ambiguous. We should treat page moves, especially moves as important as this one, with the same 100% confirmation rule."

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