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Thread: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

  1. #16
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    Pretty good episode, perhaps not the best way to end Episode N, which was great alltogether, but I'm content with it. Yeah it was a bit rushed maybe, Reshiram didn't get as much screentime as I wanted it to have, and it is kinda sad there was no Charizard vs. Reshiram, which was what the original opening of Episode N wanted us to believe would happen.

    N's voice is really great, I will miss it. In my opinion it's one of the best voices the show ever had. I really hope Nicholas DiMichele will return for another big role, perhaps in XY (or as N again, if he ever returns, but I don't think that will happen).
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    I usually focus on music, so I'm glad they kept the BGM when Pikachu jumps to help Ash, then Iris, then Team Rocket helps Iris; since for me, that was the signature BGM in this episode. Now, why in the world did they changed the BGM during Team Rocket's motto? It only makes it more repetitive and it doesn't stand out from the others. And it's not that they haven't keep the original Unova motto music all the times it played in the original until now...
    Last edited by Gabo 2oo; 20th July 2013 at 09:28 PM.
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    this is a very good episode 9/10
    Last edited by fidjnr; 20th July 2013 at 09:15 PM.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    This episode was okay, but I actually had hoped for more for the Team Plasma finale. I'll do something different and just quickly point out what I liked and disliked.

    Likes
    -N has somehow gained the power to throw Team Plasma grunts off of him.
    -When Ash said "Destroy the machine" there was something just so cool about it.
    -Dragonite, Krookodile, and Crustle's high-fives.
    -Axew actually does something useful.
    -Meowth's awesome combat against Team Plasma.
    -N realizes that People and Pokémon can live together

    Dislikes
    -Reshiram really didn't do much when it was controlled by Colress except launch a few Fusion Flares here and there.
    -Pikachu is all of a sudden able to completely resist the power of Colress's device at it's strongest when in the last episode he was totally unable to escape it without Colress's doing.
    -I really would have liked to see a Charizard vs. Reshiram battle.
    -Ghetsis totally told his grunts that they were worthless and they had no reactions and still fought for him.
    -Team Rocket acting like their old selves at the end.

    Overall the ending was okay, but it definitely didn't compare to the Galactic finale. 7/10.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    A rather underwhelming finale of a promising plot. What a pity!

    This episode had so much potential but instead of concentrating on Reshiram going apeshit because if its anger, it was just an ordinary Team-Twerps-against-Team-Evil-episode with Reshiram standing on the sidelines. No, this was not a worthy conclusion of the arc, so I totally agree with DracoMan and his alternative suggestion how the episode could have been written instead:
    Quote Originally Posted by DracoMan View Post
    Somehow, I was kinda hoping for more, especially with Team Plasma taking control of Reshiram. Maybe devote more of the episode to them causing whatever carnage they'd planned, and even extending it into the next, showing just how hard Our Gang would have to work to stop them. And wouldn't it have been cool for Zekrom to show up? You know, Reshiram's opposite number, who was in the first ep of BW, but hasn't been seen since (not including the movies, since their canon-ness is questionable). Let them struggle with each other, bringing home the clash of truth vs. ideals.

    Actually, I just had an idea of how that might play out: Zekrom shows up to fight brainwashed Reshiram. Ghetsis and Colress decide to try to control both of them; however, the strain of doing so overloads their machine, thus ruining their plans. Unfortunately, the effects of their machine leave both Ubermons mentally scrambled, causing them to go completely out of control and cause even more devastation. Ash/N/Looker could then give Ghetsis and Colress a "Look what you've done!" speech, as the two baddies watch helplessly while everything goes to hell because of their hubris.

    Yeah, that's not how it played out, but a boy can dream, right?
    Yes, you're right, that's how a really great finale should be written. Think of the EPIC them Galactic finale, by far the best episode ever! This, however, stands no comparison to Team Galactic's last episode.

    Admittedly, Pikachu trying to be the hero by fighting against the influence of the control device certainly was very impressive but nevertheless, this episode should have concentrated on the legendary Pokemon primarily. And now that it's over, I can't help but wonder: "Um, and now what?"

    To sum up, the episode fully play out its potential and kind of leaves you with feeling of incompleteness.
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  6. #21
    Registered User SlimeStack's Avatar
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    Prepare for trouble; surprise, surprise!
    Make it double; we'll help the good guys!

    TPCi have succeeded where the original has failed in giving any sort of variation to that motto stock footage. James is still saying "to unite the people within our nation" though. Also changing the BGM was a bit weird.

    I don't think we needed to see Pikachu get mind controlled for the 43rd time. Colress almost seems worse than TR with that repetitive move.

    Apart from that I liked pretty much everything about the episode. It was great seeing Team Rocket work with Looker and Ash, and it's always a treat to see Meowth fight. Let's see how Decolora Adventure goes.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    So this is the end of Episode N. And it all goes downhill from here...Goodbye: beautiful N voice, awesome Colress voice, and cool Ghetsis voice.

    Well, the episode was not bad, but as others have mentioned, a poor finale, if you ask me. I just feel that more could have been done, and what was could have been better. It just left you wanting a bit more.

    Axew turned out to be useful for once. Very nice.

    My man N just threw those Grunts off of him. Why could he never do this before? I mean, did you see the position he was in? And he wasn't hurt at all? Just get this man on a rant, guys, and he's unstoppable.

    I liked that Team Plasma weren't playing around at the beginning and immediately took control of Gothitelle and Gardevoir. I also have a lot more respect for Anime Ghetsis as a villian than game Ghetsis. This Ghetsis just flings his Grunts around and doesn't even care.

    Reshiram's using Fusion Flare on that same spot got annoying. Why not attack the people trying to stop you (Ghetsis)? Why just destroy rather than get rid of the opposition?

    Due to the serious situation, no one interrupted Cedric before he finished his oxymoron-esque statements. Which has a certain degree of humor in itself.

    "If we don't do something, they'll steal the world from us"- Jessie....I really don't know what to say about that line. It was both awesome and "what" at the same damn time.

    I really don't understand why Team Rocket were the only ones that could help them. Maybe Looker just said that for motivation? It really pisses me off that Meowth only has potential when he wants to. WHY DOES HE NEVER FIGHT IF HE CAN DO THIS?!? Also, I found it cute and funny that after his attack he ran off with Ash like some giddy schoolgirl.

    Really, WHAT THE HELL IS GHETSIS DOING ALL THIS TIME?! Like, nothing?!? If you think about it, all this Controlled Pokemon and Grunts vs The Gang + Team Rocket shouldn't even be happening right now because Ghetsis should, theoretically, be blowing some sh*t up! All this time wasted makes me question how serious he is about all this.

    Also, did Colress suddenly feel he had enough Brain-Washed-Zombie Pokemon or something, because I see some perfectly good Pokemon of Team Rocket's and Iris's he could have gotten to.

    And he it comes! It finally happens! Pikachu can resist the power of the Mind Control Device because Ash tells him he can! :D No...just no. I'm tired of all this: "Pikachu is just the most perfect specimen" stuff. If this show weren't so damn optimistic and power-filled with friendship all the time, there would be no way Pikachu would have been able to resist that. Not that that particular aspect is what I'm complaining about, but that was just WAY TOO EASY for him to do for my tastes. I'm just about as outdone as Colress was.

    N said: "Does that mean we won", when this man did next to NOTHING here expect yell about/to Reshiram and talk to his sisters about how awesome Ash is. And did Reshiram really care about whether or not people and Pokemon could live together? Why did he keep talking to him about that?

    Did they really have to grab Ghetsis like that? I mean, he was doing what he does best: standing in one spot. I liked when Ash called out Krookodile to use Stone Edge. It was pretty badass. And then they just freeze them in an Ice Beam and they can still move. That was so stupid; why not incapacitate them so they can't break out? What if they had more Pokemon on the- oh whatever...

    I found it a bit...out of character for Ash not to want to know what Reshiram said to N. Maybe it's just me, but...I feel like he likes to be nosy with these things, normally.

    And so everyone gets arrested. Did anyone else notice Colress said Pohkemon...like...with a longer "o" sound? It just sounded a bit weird to me since he doesn't normally say it like that, but whatever.

    And during all of this, Cedric's men were looking for more ruins?! How much more random can this get? Well, at least he's still funny.

    And NO, James, Pikachu is NOT still worth the effort.

    Just some general things. I really liked some of the expressions from N, Ghetsis, and Colress in this episode. I mean, just change the art style a bit and those would have been seriously creepy like in When The Cry. Very nicely done.

    This one, takes the cake, though.colress.png

    I also really liked Reshiram's cry, but hearing it have little change each time he "spoke" was a bit repetitive.

    Overall, it was seriously lacking compared to Galatic's finale. Ghetsis, and on a side note, Colress, spent most of their time doing nothing when they easily should have won this battle on their own. Pikachu completely disregarded the mind control without a single attack towards his friends, which is plain unrealistic given the past times he was controlled and the heightened strength of it in this episode. I also felt that Iris and Cilan could have been a bit more useful.

    I guess I'll give it a 6/10.
    Ambipom666 and Yato like this.

  8. #23
    Registered User Darth Darkrai's Avatar
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    Does anyone have a problem with both Anthea And Concordia's Voices at all because they sound really weird to me at least here in this Episode. Team Rocket is great and all and back to Comedians.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimeStack View Post
    Prepare for trouble; surprise, surprise!
    Make it double; we'll help the good guys!

    TPCi have succeeded where the original has failed in giving any sort of variation to that motto stock footage. James is still saying "to unite the people within our nation" though. Also changing the BGM was a bit weird.
    One of the few times the dub outdoes the original version. Especially considering it's TPCi's TRio, that's a pretty big milestone for them.

    Still, Carter Cathcart says his trademark "to unite the people," though. Grr...

    Oh well, at least they spiced things up with that, and Ash calling Iris "a little kid." These kinds of alterations the dub makes are similar to things 4Kids used to do, and I've really missed the unexpected and yet welcome nature of them for me, so I'm very happy TPCi's been doing this sort of thing again in their BW dub. :)
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  10. #25
    Registered User Darth Darkrai's Avatar
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    It is annoying with the Motto.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    What I don't get is that in the motto they replaced a piece of Japanese music with another piece of Japanese music.
    Gabo 2oo likes this.
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  12. #27
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    I felt that the ending needed more "oomph" similar to what the games had. Reshiram's rampage should have been longer and N should have actually schmoozed with it instead of shouted how people cared for Pokemon. Would an extra episode have hurt? Did they really need to make that many episodes for the pure filler saga that follows this one?

    Nonetheless, I liked how Meowth got involved, Axew freeing Iris, the scene with Gothitelle and Gardevoir coming out of the fog, Cedric staying in character, Ash & co stoning and freezing the Plasma leaders, Pikachu saving himself and Reshiram, and Colress being manic. It was still an enjoyable episode, and Episode N was great overall.
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  13. #28
    Registered User Hellwarden's Avatar
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    You know, watching this kinda made me wish that N had perhaps gotten a departure ep. I realize giving a departure episode to a character that was roughly in only 7/8 episodes of a 13 episode series, but having Ash and N just wish themselves the best of luck without a handshake or anything felt a touch empty.

    Still a solid finale.

    Also it dawned on me watching this, that perhaps Colress should not be so excited for potential future plans. For all we know of the Pokemon legal system, he could be facing a firing squad without a trial.

  14. #29
    Registered User Darth Darkrai's Avatar
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    I hope Darren Dunstan will return for more Roles because he is a good Actor.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: S16 EP25 "What Lies Beyond Truth and Ideals!"

    I'm still thinking about the "Pokemon communicating with people" device that Colress talked about. Probably a callback to the Hoenn games, where one of the machines in progress allows communication with Pokemon. The Dream World also is probably an advanced version of the Pokemon Dream Projector, a work in progress from the same company.
    I wonder why Ghestis didn't try to run out of the police truck. The door was wide open, and he wasn't restrained in any way.

    On a separate note, I know this is far too late, but what the heck is Ghetsis's coat made out of?

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