PREVIEW: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens" - Page 61

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Thread: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

  1. #901
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    *sigh* I mean, the way the voice inside someone's head sounds, not some higher philosophical crap. If I thought "I think killing is wrong", it would sound exactly the same as "killing people is fun" - doesn't matter which extreme of something I think, the voice thinking it will sound the same.
    And? That doesn't mean that inner voice can't change after years provided that the person in question has actually changed their belief system, rather than just thinking meaningless thoughts. It's pretty evident that you have no idea what that means, but that doesn't mean it never happens.

    Do you honestly expect for there to be such a vague, abstract symbol for someone's change in philosophy in a film targeted at people more than half our ages?
    I see nothing wrong with a movie provoking thought. If the concept goes over kids' heads, they probably won't care about the voice, anyway.

    But we don't know if the comparison is in the case of "This Mewtwo was a dick, but this one isn't" or "Mewtwo used to be a dick, but now isn't" because we have yet to have a firm yes or no answer on if this is the same Mewtwo or not.
    Except we're supposed to understand how this Mewtwo has changed. Comparing it another Mewtwo would achieve nothing.

    I thought it was pretty obvious that the awakened form happens because of the change? What I mean is, it would make more sense if Mewtwo's new voice was a part of the change that these new ideals bought on, as "part" of the form.
    The transformation is the culmination of the change, which isn't supposed to be abrupt. The awakened form may have some powers that the original form lacks, but it doesn't really make sense that Mewtwo's inner voice would change back and forth depending on its appearance.

    Except it wouldn't show the change, so kids won't be able to link the reasoning behind it to that.
    Regardless of which Mewtwo is, there have to be references to its past to explain how it has changed. Either that or the comparison to Movie 1 would somehow suffice, but I find that hard to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN
    I'm... not going to address the total rape of science and physical anthropology in the discussion seen a few posts above. In fact, I'll just ignore it.
    That's amusing.

    But I will say here as a reminder that the term, in Pokemon, for what is commonly referred to as "genderless" is Gender Unknown (referred to in the Japanese games as seibetsufumei, which means Sex Unknown). It's not the same as "lacking a Gender" or "lacking a Sex" (note that sex and gender are two different concepts, but the Japanese term sei doesn't differentiate this; in this context, since it's a term used in relation to breeding, it would be "Sex").
    Some Pokémon definitely don't have a gender. Ditto is one of them, and I would think that Mew would be too, so as to allow it to possess both male and female DNA. If that is the case, then it stands to reason that Mewtwo is genderless, as well.
    Last edited by Silktree; 21st April 2013 at 03:02 PM.

  2. #902
    メイの大切な彼氏 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    That's amusing.
    Mind you, that wasn't directed at you, but this is as far as I will go regarding the subject. :P

    Some Pokémon definitely don't have a gender. Ditto is one of them, and I would think that Mew would be too, so as to allow it to possess both male and female DNA. If that is the case, then it stands to reason that Mewtwo is genderless, as well.
    Assuming Mewtwo/Mew can spontaneously change their sex, I have no reason to believe that Mewtwo would suddenly identify itself as female (gender) simply because it has expanded its world view, without it appearing halfassed. I mean, assuming it's the same one to begin with, they could write a bunch of cause/effect scenarios to have made that happen, but that just seems like they're trying to find an excuse to give it a female seiyuu, when they could have easily written a Mewtwo with the same voice, with its view of the world expanded through its travels in the shadows (which, in my opinion, is a way better way to present character development for Mewtwo than simply changing its personality and voice completely).

    I dunno. All problems I have with both scenarios (same Mewtwo, different voice; different Mewtwo, meddling with established canon) would have been avoided if they just used the Masachika Ichimura Mewtwo to begin with, a Mewtwo that's clearly the Mewtwo already know with the established backstory. There's no reason why they couldn't have done that instead.

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  3. #903
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    *sigh* I mean, the way the voice inside someone's head sounds, not some higher philosophical crap. If I thought "I think killing is wrong", it would sound exactly the same as "killing people is fun" - doesn't matter which extreme of something I think, the voice thinking it will sound the same.
    And? That doesn't mean that inner voice can't change after years provided that the person in question has actually changed their belief system, rather than just thinking meaningless thoughts. It's pretty evident that you have no idea what that means, but that doesn't mean it never happens.
    To be blunt: Do you have any evidence that such a thing actually does happen? Because it honestly just sounds like you're pulling it out of your butt to try and explain why The Pokémon Company decided to cast someone as Mewtwo who has a voice completely different to what we've seen before.

    Do you honestly expect for there to be such a vague, abstract symbol for someone's change in philosophy in a film targeted at people more than half our ages?
    I see nothing wrong with a movie provoking thought. If the concept goes over kids' heads, they probably won't care about the voice, anyway.
    The writers, directors etc will want it so that the children, the target audience of the movie, will be able to understand everything. Having the voice be different before Mewtwo's big transformation or revelation won't make it obvious to the target audience, it will go over their heads.

    But we don't know if the comparison is in the case of "This Mewtwo was a dick, but this one isn't" or "Mewtwo used to be a dick, but now isn't" because we have yet to have a firm yes or no answer on if this is the same Mewtwo or not.
    Except we're supposed to understand how this Mewtwo has changed. Comparing it another Mewtwo would achieve nothing.
    I wouldn't say so. Either way, we're in an absolutely bizarre situation that regardless of the outcome, will be a load of BS in one way or another. I think @FANG-TAN; summed it up perfectly. If it is the same Mewtwo, they'll have to think of some ass-pull explanation as to why Mewtwo suddenly lost its non-visible balls, or if it is a different Mewtwo, they'll have to ass-pull a way for a second Mewtwo to be in existence.

    I thought it was pretty obvious that the awakened form happens because of the change? What I mean is, it would make more sense if Mewtwo's new voice was a part of the change that these new ideals bought on, as "part" of the form.
    The transformation is the culmination of the change, which isn't supposed to be abrupt. The awakened form may have some powers that the original form lacks, but it doesn't really make sense that Mewtwo's inner voice would change back and forth depending on its appearance.
    So tell me all about how you've seen this movie and know absolutely every single detail about this new form and the events surrounding Mewtwo transforming into it then?

  4. #904
    Registered User johnpoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    i hoped to god that this was the same mewtwo. but now that i think about it pisses me off either way i mean there messing with a classic pokemon either way the go

    its the same mewtwo only with a womans voice (bull****) or its a different one (id defiantly chose this one over the first one)

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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    I don't know. As much as I want it to be the same Mewtwo, it's a bit of a stretch considering he had the same CV for two movies, Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns, and his worldview had already changed quite a bit in the second film, yet his voice remained the same.

    Isn't it also a big deal to change a character's voice actor in Japan? Or am I making this up?

  6. #906
    Registered User johnpoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    Quote Originally Posted by Familiar View Post
    I don't know. As much as I want it to be the same Mewtwo, it's a bit of a stretch considering he had the same CV for two movies, Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns, and his worldview had already changed quite a bit in the second film, yet his voice remained the same.

    Isn't it also a big deal to change a character's voice actor in Japan? Or am I making this up?
    yes it is a bit of a stretch but you have to remember where talking about a series that is about mythical creatures that have powers. with that aside i dont like either scenario because either way the messing with a classic in the wrong way i just wish that tpc and tpci would keep there older fans in mind because im not positive but i would think that the get most of there money from us older fans

  7. #907
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree
    We saw Mewtwo's birth; it used telepathy from the very beginning, and it never uttered a word using its natural voice.
    So you think Myuutwo is mute then?

    If Mewtwo developed its inner voice before ever hearing itself speak (or rather utter its name), what reason is there to believe that the two voices are anything alike?
    Because that's how telepathy in fiction works?

    Please, provide an example of someone with telepathy thinking in a voice that's completely different from the one they speak with, in this series or in any other.

    So this entire discussion is silly.
    We're talking about whether or not there are two genetically engineered cats with amazing psychic powers in a cartoon aimed at children based on the voices we hear when they use telepathy. This discussion was never *not* silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Blue
    A different Mewtwo is something I'll have to get used to but I'm wondering if it was not created by Team Rocket, what are the chances that someone created this one where it looks the same and was given the same name too?
    Eh, it's just "Myuu" with the number "two" tacked on to it. It's not too out of the question to think that two different people in two different places would come up with the same name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Familiar
    I don't know. As much as I want it to be the same Mewtwo, it's a bit of a stretch considering he had the same CV for two movies, Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns, and his worldview had already changed quite a bit in the second film, yet his voice remained the same.
    Yeah, that's just the thing; if this is indeed the same Myuutwo from the first movie and the TV special, and its voice didn't change after all that happened at the end of either of those two, then what in the world happened between then and now to trigger the change from Ichimura to Takashima? And why wouldn't the animators show this to us instead of having it happen off-camera? It doesn't make any sense.

    Isn't it also a big deal to change a character's voice actor in Japan? Or am I making this up?
    Voice actor changes do happen, but for the most part they try to keep the same people being voiced by the same people as much as possible.

    The only instances I know of of any of the voice actors in this series being replaced are when the original voice actor died or when they had to go on maternity leave.
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  8. #908
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    What's the point of getting a comedian to voice a Geodude?

  9. #909
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    It's probably just to give the other half of the comedy duo someone to voice. Maybe Tokui Kenta got to pick which pokemon he wanted to voice and he chose Ishitsubute?
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  10. #910
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    You think OLM could've simply designed two COTD before getting a comedy duo to lend their voice. I wonder what came first, the character, or the decision to cast them in the film.

    Do little kids even know who these guys are in Japan? I mean, Kaba was part of the old Pokemon Sunday program, right, so that makes sense, but what about these two?

  11. #911
    Registered User Adamant's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendou Soujirou View Post
    You think OLM could've simply designed two COTD before getting a comedy duo to lend their voice. I wonder what came first, the character, or the decision to cast them in the film.
    The characters, of course. It's stunt casting, happens in every single movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendou Soujirou View Post
    Do little kids even know who these guys are in Japan? I mean, Kaba was part of the old Pokemon Sunday program, right, so that makes sense, but what about these two?
    Kaba.chan was part of SPH, not Sunday... and he was actually IN the movie, he didn't just get a role.

    Heisei Nobushi Kobushi are pretty well known. And they've been on Pokemon Smash before, if that matters.
    So.

  12. #912
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    The characters, of course. It's stunt casting, happens in every single movie.
    Then it seems like they could've just created an additional COTD so the other dude could have a human character to voice.

    The point I was making is that having two guest voices, but only one actual human character, makes it seem like this was done after the movie was more or less animated.

  13. #913
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    It probably was since in Japan, unlike in the West, they typically record the voices after the animation's been finished.
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  14. #914
    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    The movie seems great judging by the trailer and I'm liking the sound of the ED theme, can't wait till it's released.

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    Default Re: M16 "ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens"

    Mewtwo is a psychic bio-engineered pokemon of mass destruction; it can have whatever gender voice it pleases. Didn't Mewtwo have a female friend when it was younger? I could see how the new voice is a tribute to its friend; unfortunately the reasons that I can come up with for the tribute are too much for the film, I think. Too much to tell in the timeframe.

    I could accept a new Mewtwo if a rogue Rocket found Giovanni's documents and the research on Mewtwo. If this is the case, I hope that rogue Rocket plays a major role in the story and isn't explained away in a bit of dialogue.

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